Exploration of why the bible forbids meditation.

reply to post by eight bits


Mantras usage is one of meditation techniques. From my stand of view quite dangerous. Mantras are "pronounced " statements, may be powerful, but also dangerous. I have no personal experience with this kind of spirituality, but I had encountered one "fallen" angel who used mantra technique - from my stand of view he is mad and I do not want to follow him. Mantra technique is not for beginners.

reply to post by zeddissad

Howdy, zed. I wasn't recommending or discommending anything. I was reporting what a large group of Nicene Christians do as a common practice, and have done for centuries.

Good idea or bad idea, it is what they do. Eastern Orthodoxy, while not sola scriptura, is Bible inerrant. So, if nothing else, their embrace of this devotion indicates their opinion that the practice does not conflict with Biblical instructions to the faithful.

I am not Eastern Orthodox, so I am in no position to "defend" the practice. I can only describe it, and note its similarities with other approaches to meditation.




[edit on 23-1-2010 by eight bits]

Prayer is mediation,

The brain activity patterns in the meditating Buddhists were similar to those in the praying Franciscan nuns, another religious group studied by Newberg. Hymns, chants, ritual dancing, and sacred rites may also intensify focus, block out external stimuli, and provide a pathway to mystical experience, even in nonbelievers.

atheistempire.com...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

i do believe, historically, that when the western civilizations came into greater contact with the eastern civilizations that the western religions viewed the eastern religions as a threat. There was a great amount of demonization of the concepts of Buddhism and Hinduism by the western religious orthodoxy.

just a thought

reply to post by The_Archangel


I beleive what Father Malachi Martin said is if you mediatate you need to protect yourself by surrounding yourself with light as asking for protection, also to be careful what you mediatate on. Those were great interviews he did with Art Bell, going to have to go back and give them a listen again.

reply to post by Aquarius1


You may be right. I've not listened to them for a while but I think that his fear was that any practice in which you empty the mind makes you in turn an empty vessel for 'demonic possession'.

I have always thought of meditation as still contemplation, perfected concentration.

I don't think very many religions contain taboos against concentration itself.

I consider emotional regulation one of the most useful skills which can be acquired through meditation.

To a Christian, I think it would be useful to meditate on Christ - & those attributions Christ represents.

Hi X,

thanks for your response. In many ways I can idéntify with your experience and attitude, as I also approach the whole thing from a 'gnostic'
(i.e. experienced, not religionist gnostic) perspective. That's probably what has made it possible for you to get unscathed through a situation of conflicting issues (doctrine and practise at odds).

As you have noticed on this thread, kundalini practise is taken as an expression of something non-christian. Actually this isn't completely true. Both christianity and kundalini try to 'rise' the energies, while traditional buddhism (in some of its forms) tries to make the energies cancel out each other by finding the pivot point; the eye of the storm. Thus creating silence.

There's some deeper cosmology and/or doctrines behind these two models, maybe worthwhile to consider.

Well done all you ATS scholars!

I have to say these sorts of threads, written on foundations of sand always cheer me up here on ATS. Perhaps there's a nasty streak in me but I enjoy it very much when the uneducated OPs are put down so soundly as this person has been. You'd have thought that after over a year of membership one might try to be a little more sure of ones facts, what with the entire internet at their disposal and all the scholars on these boards.

Thanks guys this was the frst time I smiled today.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by spookfish]

When one looks for "enlightenment within" and has no real relationsip with God, he will find a decieving spirit. Man is a fallen and cursed creature needing redemption. New agers and the like bypass this truth and go right to meditation.

Opening onesself up, through meditation, to allow a decieving spirit to enter is dangerous. This can cause wrong assumptions to be made. Assumptions such as "getting in touch with your higher self" instead of demon possesion, for instance. The unredeamed person has no way of descerning the spirits he entertains. He just goes by his "feelings". The OP doesn't have sufficient decernment IMO to make the leap of faith to declare his "experience" to be of God.

Originally posted by The X
Go and tell your pastor your raising the serpent energy within, im sure he will have the #s and giggles and will then tell you himself the difference between the meaning of Meditation in the bible and Kundalini Meditation.

That is because there is an instance where they are one and the same. The story when Moses raised the serpent made of brass in the wilderness for healing, was it something to gaze at like Medusa's face, or to meditate upon?

Your error lies in taking one verse out of proper context and using it to generalize the meaning of the entire Scriptures. In this method of interpretation you are no less guilty then those self stylized witch burners of yore.

But then again I am not a practicing Christian, so don't expect to jump on me when you feel put off. I say, meditate upon it.

reply to post by LordBucket


Thread over, LordBucket wins the internetz here...no more comments needed.

The bible is a wacky book full of nonsense, you really dont need to make up more nonsense than whats in there.
The bible does not say meditation is forbidden...

The bible does however say:
God likes the smell of burned animals sacrificed
God hates sin, and gay people are sinning...therefore God hates gays
Kill sinners whom are considered unredeemable
women are meant to serve men..period.
men came from mud, and women from a bone of man
God kills children
God hates foreskin
God will destroy a persons life...even the most faithful...to prove a point to the devil (told ya so).
God fears us gaining too much unity and power that could threaten him(see the tower of babal)
The holy spirit talks to us, but if you talk to spirits, its a demon posing as a spirit
God knows all, from beginning to end, but gave us free will, so knows nothing...(you will never find a rational answer to this paradox btw.).

This list could be endless btw...endless endless..every 3rd sentence makes God a bigger child than the one before...the new testiment tones down God a bit (thanks Jesus) but it doesnt remove the insanity...it just covers it up a bit so you dont have to keep questioning the logic of it.

I think, if the bible is in fact true, that Jesus was sent here not as a avatar of God, but more of a public relations effort to try and undo some damage his boss did...like being a PR rep for Dennis Rodman trying to say he is a completely normal guy.

reply to post by Aquarius1


I was once a practitioner many years ago with many weird experiences such as neck stretching out like a snake, and the perception that my body grew larger than Earth. Each experience depended on the area that was concentrated on.

One of the most powerful techniques was the ajna chakra(third eye) stimulation. It made everything shine like a pure white light, internally and externally. I am not a christian nor religious but there is an interesting passage in the bible which may allude to it:

Matt 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. (King James Version)

Who needs drugs when you can hallucinate at will after 30 minutes of meditation. (visual and auditory perception is questionable during sensory deprivation - it is a natural process.) I don't claim anything supernatural occurred during the sessions but there are side effects that exist to this day. For those interested in this path, be prepared.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by platoslab]

6 flags for a useless mumbo jumbo non-sens. The bible does not say its forbidden to meditate.

Originally posted by romanmel
When one looks for "enlightenment within" and has no real relationsip with God, he will find a decieving spirit. Man is a fallen and cursed creature needing redemption.

Jesus was a man. oh well, there goes that whole argument...unless of course jesus was also born cursed..

As far as what Jesus taught...quick summery:

I am God (I and the father are one)
There is NO difference between him and any other joe off the street beyond faith.
therefore, according to Jesus, the decieving spirit you say we find, is actually the spirit of God...or the holy spirit that we are all one with....but thats just what Jesus said...what does he know...his follower Paul invalidated most of what he said, and also said pray to the man, dont follow his teachings.

So, in your religion, you follow the teachings of paul while praying to the icon of jesus.

nice cult you got going on there...tell me, the calf you pray to...is it 18k or 24k gold?


[edit on 23-1-2010 by SaturnFX]

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
6 flags for a useless mumbo jumbo non-sens. The bible does not say its forbidden to meditate.

Oh, it is quickly devolving into a theological battle in general...you know how these posts work.

reply to post by platoslab


I think it would be interesting to learn these techniques. I fully accept the possibility that with the right "tuning", a person can percieve alot more than what we do normally.

Years ago, I was meditating a bit, just getting my angst out and trying to find answers to some issues I was having...and also just trying to see what happens when I follow things properly...after awhile, I sort of got the answers I was seeking..popped into my head but seemed the thoughts either weren't mine, or came from a part of my brain that I rarely interacted with consciously...anyhow, as this came to me, I opened my eyes and like you said, everything in my room was very...hmm..shiny or luminescent..hard to describe.

real or just a mind trick, it looked very cool and gave me a incredible feeling of joy and peace...and for a number of weeks after I felt different somehow..moved past the issues I was having at the time, etc.

I think I might restart that again...I find no psychobabble on the power and benefits of meditation...but I do take issue with what some people say its doing (considering nothing is proven about it).

Originally posted by Monts
I don't think the bible forbids meditation...

I was raised in a conservative catholic family, and me and my mother went to christian orientated meditation centers.

They are basically the exact same kinds of meditations as any other, except you are to focus on christ's everlasting and immortal love.

I even remember a priest encouraging everyone to meditate as often as they pray: he said praying was our way of talking to god, and meditation was god's way of talking to us.

Once you get past all the conservatism of Christianity, and all the hell and no reincarnation aspect, its a pretty powerful religion with a powerful meaning.

I don't consider myself a ture christian however, because I believe in reincarnation, and I also believe that jesus's story and teachings have been grossly warped and twisted throughout the years to suit the church's need for power and control.

I also think most of the old testament is a big load of hogwash.

I'm with you...the bible does not forbid meditation. Not at all.

Some people also think the Bible forbids hypnosis (another form of meditation), which it does not. (In fact, some of the most famous masters of hypnotists were Jesuits and Catholic Priests.)

You might find this interesting, though....you say that you don't consider yourself a Christian because of the reincarnation issue? Well, I'm with you, but did you know that reincarnation was actually part of the teachings of the early Christian church? For some reason (take a big guess why) they removed the concept of reincarnation from Christianity later on.

i.e. here is a passage by Origen, one of the earliest Christian scholars:

"It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing." —Origen

Also, this quote is attributed to Jesus from the gnostic gospels:

"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world." —Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia

I know, a little bit off the subject, but I thought you might find those quotes interesting!


[edit on 23-1-2010 by nikiano]

reply to post by jinx880101


Well nice outlook on the lotus----
i'd like to add to that with my own little theory of the symbolism of the lotus flower---you talk about the lotus flower rising from the scum of the earth to be vibrant etc, however what you failed to notice is that when you look at the surface of the pond in the midst of the light you find many blooming flowers...Each different but all very beutiful. The part that is failed to be remembered is that although on the surface the lotus may seem independant of one another, the truth beneath reveals a stem from each...All leading to the same source...In fact...One living organism sharing the same roots....just wanted to add to that...A little more "depth" perception.

MOD NOTE: ALL Caps is not allowed. Nobody likes to be yelled at.

[edit on 23-1-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by SaturnFX

God likes the smell of burned animals sacrificed
God hates sin, and gay people are sinning...therefore God hates gays
Kill sinners whom are considered unredeemable
women are meant to serve men..period.
men came from mud, and women from a bone of man
God kills children
God hates foreskin
God will destroy a persons life...even the most faithful...to prove a point to the devil (told ya so).
God fears us gaining too much unity and power that could threaten him(see the tower of babal)
The holy spirit talks to us, but if you talk to spirits, its a demon posing as a spirit
God knows all, from beginning to end, but gave us free will, so knows nothing...

Did Roger Waters just write a new song?

Seriously though, can't say i agree, but you did make me laugh.







[edit on 23-1-2010 by McGinty]