Saudi girl 13, sentenced to 90 lashes after she took a mobile phone to school

It is only the government trying to keep the youth under control. They realize that the minds of the young are very powerful, and unfortunately this girl was the "example". Unfortunately its not a war that is going to change a culture, unless you assume genocide of the dissenters is in order. It is the minds of those in that culture.

Most wish to imprison the mind, especially those who profit from its undoing.

reply to post by intelgurl


Dear intelgurl

Oh lovely I have always wanted to say this and you have just opened the opportunity.

When your president Clinton was spouting about ethnic cleansing.

I could not help but think what is he saying as the people living on the North American continent at the time were guilty of the worst case of ethnic cleansing in all history. Also from what I understand these people are still regarded as second class citizens today.

I do hope I do not have to spell it out for you about whom I speak.

reply to post by intelgurl


Dear intelgurl

From intelgurl “Face it - no matter how you slice it - Sharia law sucks for humanity.”

Yes well I do not like it either but your government should leave them to punish there own in a way that they see fit.

Originally posted by MAC269
I do hope I do not have to spell it out for you about whom I speak.

Dearest MAC269,
as a 1/4 cherokee i know of whom you speak, and just because a person or society has done wrong in the past does not mean that they cannot improve, or seek to make amends for those wrongs by doing just a little bit of right.
In this case keeping Miloslovec from exterminating muslims was a right thing to do.

Back to the Native Americans, the atrocities commited against them were horrible.
But today, many of them could join the mainstream society if they chose - but they choose to segregate themselves. and these days many tribes have become wealthy by by building casinos on their lands. I know of Native Americans who do not have to work as they recieve checks from the tribe simply for being a member, thanks to the casinos.

As for the ethnic cleansing of the Native Americans being the worst in history - i think that can be shot down pretty easily with a little research.

Kosovo, Darfur, Jews in Germany, Palestinians today, Apartheid in South Africa, Pol Pot in Campuchia, Burma today... over the last 75 years there have been these atrocities as well as many others - all horrible - all needed solutions - some got help, others did not.

If you were being ethnically cleansed from your land you might be screaming for someone, anyone - even the satanic USA to help - even if it meant it would violate the soveriegnty of the nation you call home.


(Mods - sorry for going so off-topic)

[edit on 1-22-2010 by intelgurl]

reply to post by intelgurl


Dear intelgurl

How interesting and delightful to communicate with you.

A thirteen year old girl is being punished by her people in her country and Americans think they have a right to object to the point of taking control of that country.

Believe me I do not like it or there ideas anymore than you do. But the only way to stop them is by the same methods as Miloslovec. You are not going to change there minds. What really gets me is that the west is allowing these people into the west.

As Enoch Powell a very cleave English man said the streets will run red with blood if this trend continues.

Sorry if you have any reply to this I am calling it a day now and will be back in about 15 hours.

At the time of the pilgrim fathers how many native Americans where there??? And how many today???

reply to post by AshleyD


Because it is not our place to judge.

If their society dictates that you don't bring a cell phone to school, then it is a crime.

You can't pick and choose what you want to support.

I seem to remember beepers getting banned and kids actually getting arrested because of the drug connection. Who gets arrested for a beeper? Our kids do.

Our high school used to have random lock downs and have dogs sniff the lockers.
Who does that in a high school.

But despite OUR laws, whether it is a crime or not. We can't keep our own noses clean, much less have the audacity to thumb it at societies we dont' understand.

Funny all our laws adn values yet we are still considered the most violent society.

I have had friends treated like gang members in other third world countries that hear rumors of the violence.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by nixie_nox]

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
Why does no one look at the fact that she knew the consequences to her actions and chose to break what obviously is a law? When people choose to break the law why do they whine when they are punished according to that law? You can scream bad this and bad that with their belief system, but in the end this is the lifestyle that the child was brought into and raised to understand and respect. I do consider it strickt but I also do not know weather or not this is the first time this child violated the law. She may be a repeat offender. Sometimes when you run a "strickt" environment you have to also make an example out of some one. It just wasn't this childs lucky day.

I don't care how many times my child breaks any rules - no one takes a whip to her.

Originally posted by L.HAMILTON
Other than the brutality of the Islamic ( Sharia) Law that is about to be unleashed on this 13 year old girl , 90 lashes followed by two months detention for a mere breaking of 'the rules'. A f

I'm usually pretty good at reaching a middle ground where both sides of the argument are visible....

Not here. Barbarism, plain & simple:

Punish people like animals and they will act like animals. The adults will declare that these methods were good enough for them when they grew up, so they're good enough for their children; a cycle of revenge upon the next generation for the fear of punishment they themselves suffered.

They are not teaching society about right & wrong, only about crime & punishment, thus the individuals will never take moral responsibility for such horrors as this.

Originally posted by L.HAMILTON
Saudi Arabia; where cinema and music concerts are banned , where religious police roam the streets , it is no wonder why there is such a hate towards the ' West' .

Surley one would assume that this treatment and these social conditions you describe would lead it's people to envy the West, not hate them!

Speaking to the issue of hurting children: if one were to consider the hypocricy of individuals who spend excessively on goods or services they either do not need , or already have too much of, and the selfish spending of discretionary income on assorted unholsome products or services, which income might otherwise have been used to better serve the welfare of hungry or sick children, then one might become aware of just how each of us invariably hurts not only children, but all of human-kind, through self indulgence and greed. Greed and prestige, the antonyms of humility, infect every human being, and cause an excess of pain and suffering throughout the world.

No one, not even god, has a right to criticise the behavior of an individual or a culture when, as is the case with earth, the concept of justice falls victim to the imperfect interpretations of human-kind. You can thumb your noses, beat your breasts, point your fingers, and stomp your feet, but until a sovereign benevolent king makes a ruling on justice so that all can hear clearly, with unambiguous consenquences described in detail, there will always be an injury or injustice claimed.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
It's their country, they can do what they want. Iran and North Korea want atom bombs. It's their country they can do what they want. Venezuala wants to nationalize everything. It's their country they can do what they want. China wants to control the internet. It's their country they can do what they want.

You can't pick and choose. Either a country can do what it wants to, or it can't. Make up your minds.

They can do what they want as long as they dont break basic human rights. If they do, we should intervene (doesnt mean we outright invade them, thats the last resort solution).

Did anyone actually read the article? The girl was punished for attacking her teacher who discovered she had brought a mobile phone to school. The daily mail's headline is misleading. Before anybody gets overly excited, I am not condoning such brutal corporal punishment, I'm just pointing out that The Daily Mail has designed the article to incite a knee jerk, emotional response.

The media do this all the time, whether it be with peadophiles, rapists, drug crazed murderers or a country. They present the latest boogey man and we all react. The media has control of our emotions.

It's a case of 'problem, reaction, solution'. For example, the article gets us to focus on some appalling abuse of human rights (problem), we are utterly outraged and demand action (reaction), our government invades a country with our blessing (solution). You must ask your self why the last sentance of the article is:

Most of the hijackers in the September 11 attacks in 2001 came from Saudi Arabia.

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


Great point. The Mail is notorious for this.

reply to post by MAC269


Sounds like a point by point clarification is needed thanks to your spinning the issue:

Originally posted by MAC269
A thirteen year old girl is being punished by her people in her country and Americans think they have a right to object to the point of taking control of that country.

I never advocated taking control of Saudi Arabia over the unjust punishment of a 13 yr old girl - You were the one who went off subject talking about ethnic cleansing when you wrote;

Originally posted by MAC269
Oh lovely I have always wanted to say this and you have just opened the opportunity ... were guilty of the worst case of ethnic cleansing in all history.

...and thus YOU brought in the subject of "ethnic cleansing", which I was compelled to answer.
In fact the unjust punishment of the girl in question does not in any way equate to "ethnic cleansing" - nor should it even be considered that to take control of Saudi Arabia would be an appropriate response. That is beyond ridiculous.

Originally posted by MAC269
...the only way to stop them is by the same methods as Miloslovec. You are not going to change there minds. What really gets me is that the west is allowing these people into the west.

I hope you are wrong - perhaps there is hope in the process of introducing "these people" to the west and present day, western social ideals, as opposed to the archaic ideals of conquest and subjugation by means of a "Miloslovec-ian" ethnic cleansing which you seem to propose.

Originally posted by MAC269
As Enoch Powell a very cleave English man said the streets will run red with blood if this trend continues.

Mr. Powell's famous "Rivers of Blood" speech although "politically incorrect' by those whose sensibilities are offended by such socially protective rhetoric - was spot on to a certain degree. As more and more immigrants come into a land that land tends to lose it's original social identity. However, this is not the subject being discussed in this thread but it would be a great new thread.

Originally posted by MAC269
At the time of the pilgrim fathers how many native Americans where there??? And how many today???

This too would be a good subject for you to start a thread with, i'm sure it would be a vigorous discusion, but the subject is not appropriate for this thread.



[edit on 1-22-2010 by intelgurl]

what religion does to people

this

I wont discuss anymore, every religion is bull$%

you can find things like that in every culture and the worse thing is the covering part

Here's a vid about a young girl dying of the injuries after being punished. Not really any vids showing the type of punishment these young girls bear:

www.youtube.com...

Different locale; same principal, "punishment".

Here's more:

www.facebook.com...

No consequencE..

Thank you.


[edit on 22-1-2010 by noconsequence]

reply to post by noconsequence


I have to throw in a few more. I find these images and stories highly disturbing. People are not looking at the, "barbaric reality" of these beliefs/laws correctly.

www.rawa.org...

www.google.com...://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u3lFqBksmrE/SRKhXvA4PEI/AAAAAAAAPus/sEIWdrTAkKY/s400/y186612956658570.jpg&imgrefurl=http ://lindaikeji.blogspot.com/2008/11/confirmed-some-of-us-are-really-crazy.html&h=300&w=400&sz=25&tbnid=S6BptJAzkiUhAM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3F q%3Dgirl%2Bstoned%2Bto%2Bdeath&hl=en&usg=__9CPr_3zEZUlpF5gKTn9EYNcusiE=&ei=Mu9ZS6WnEc-1lAfM9cj7BA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=8&ct=image&ved=0CCAQ9QEw Bw

People forget these are human rights, "issues" to the ones involved. These are those who look up into the news camera praying some heroic people will see their affliction, and be moved to become part of the answer; but that's not what they get.

Those who do not concern themselves with the issues in the world around themselves, will surely end up being prey to a similar fate. We are responsible for what we, "can" do.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

No consequencE..

Thank you.



[edit on 22-1-2010 by noconsequence]

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by intelgurl

Yes well I do not like it either but your government should leave them to punish there own in a way that they see fit.

See my post on banishment, in this thread, this Saudi girl and her family should have the option to be banished from Saudi Arabia instead of being whipped for the cellphone.

Having banishment as an alternative for consensual crime law violations in all countries would encourage those law breakers to leave their oppressive home states and live elsewhere.

With enough people leaving, Saudi Arabia's power would wane which should suit the western world just fine.

I don't see how religion has anything to do with her punishment. In my culture we take disobediant girls and put them in jail with other criminal girls where they learn how to do hard drugs and become topless dancers.

I'm sorry. I would like to rephrase myself; I know I tend to be extreme, "enough": Please ladies of A.T.S.;- How can you ever explain to these, "people" here, what these, "Sharia" laws imply, "against" you.

I believe those of you that do not get it, deserve what you have coming to you..

Personally, I am so offended, that I am not capable of being, "diplomatic" on this thread..

I apologize to you non-life/death individuals; however, my personal talents apply to fighting in this area; and I feel defensive for innocent children/little girls/individuals..

Uh-ThankX again OP, for the info; sorry to, "you" about my explicit response in my first, "in thread" post.

I am just extremely, "predigested" for the preservation of the well-being of the sincerely motivated children/the people. And of course, I believe you allready know it wasn't directed towards you .

No consequencE..

Thank you.


[edit on 22-1-2010 by noconsequence]

CNN Video

An interesting video on CNN, the Saudi people are outraged...

[edit on 25-1-2010 by ProUSA]