Would you do the same as Luis?

Luis's family is starving. They have very little money. Luis decides he is going to cross the border illegally in to America to ensure that his family never has to suffer again.

Luis gets a job. He begins sending money home to his family. His family is no longer starving. They eat three times a day, and even have a little money left over to entertain themselves. They have never lived so well. They are happy. Luis is happy.

My question to the Americans is this: Would you not do exactly what Luis chose to do? Even though Luis committed a crime, his family was fed, and they were finally content.

I've seen alot of posts here that claim they would do whatever was neccessary to ensure that their family was safe and happy.

So why is it acceptable for you to do whatever might be neccessary to protect your family, but not Luis?

If you were in Luis's shoes, would you not do the same as he did? Somehow I think that you would. Wouldn't you? I certainly know that if my family was starving, I would do whatever was neccessary to ensure their survival. And I would do whatever was neccessary to ensure that they were happy and that they were comfortable. Even if that meant illegally smuggling myself accross a border and risking my life in the process.

Would you do the same as Luis?

My wife is from Kenya. She was starving, sometimes going three days without food. She was in constant danger of being raped, mugged, or killed.

So, she worked really hard in school, submitted paperwork to come to America. She worked as often as she could although jobs were extremely rare and incredibly difficult to get. She met people and spoke with them and arranged help for the money it took to submit her papers and get a passport.

She got into an American University, graduated top of her class and now makes $100,000 a year, legally. She is a U.S. citizen with all the rights and priveledges that go along with that.

She feeds her family back home and they've opened a shop and are now paying their own rent for a 2 bedroom apartment!

**

I might do what Luis did, but I'd prefer to work and follow laws.

Yes I would

I would also expect what ever country I entered illegally to hunt me down and arrest me for the criminal act I committed and send me back.. At the very least.

While I may be desperate in your scenario, I would not be so stupid as to assume I could commit the crime of entering illegally and not have to accept the punishment for it.

Semper

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
My wife is from Kenya. She was starving, sometimes going three days without food. She was in constant danger of being raped, mugged, or killed.

So, she worked really hard in school, submitted paperwork to come to America. She worked as often as she could although jobs were extremely rare and incredibly difficult to get. She met people and spoke with them and arranged help for the money it took to submit her papers and get a passport.

She got into an American University, graduated top of her class and now makes $100,000 a year, legally. She is a U.S. citizen with all the rights and priveledges that go along with that.

She feeds her family back home and they've opened a shop and are now paying their own rent for a 2 bedroom apartment!

**

I might do what Luis did, but I'd prefer to work and follow laws.

Hi Thermo Klein. I applaud your wife for the effort she put in, however, I don't think it is quite as easy for those living in a third world country. Nor do I think that the problem is as black and white as many make it out to be.

If it were as easy as your wife made it, there wouldn't be nearly a million Mexicans flooding across the border in search of a better life every year, would there?

I'm just trying to place myself in their shoes. And if I was in their shoes, I strongly believe that I would do exactly the same as they are doing to ensure that my family was taken care of.

I'd prefer as well as yourself, to work within the laws as well. Unfortunately, there is far to much beaurocracy and red tape that it usually precludes one from doing so. It comes down to waiting years for a possible approval of citizenship, or seeking a better life for ones family immediately.

Something tells me that I would choose the latter and so too would the majority of the rest of the world.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Yes I would

I would also expect what ever country I entered illegally to hunt me down and arrest me for the criminal act I committed and send me back.. At the very least.

While I may be desperate in your scenario, I would not be so stupid as to assume I could commit the crime of entering illegally and not have to accept the punishment for it.

Semper

Hi Semper.

Do you believe that seeking a better life for ones family should constitute as a crime?

Do you think that their should be a punishment attached to seeking a better life for ones family?

What do you think should be done in regards to those less fortunate than us. Should we lock down the borders and ignore them or do you believe there is something more that we can do to help them?

Anyone who agrees with immigration restrictions is either part of the immigration office, or is not looking at the big picture. Enough said.


I'm Brandon, I want to go to Alaska from Canada to see the beautiful wilderness. Am i going to ask for permission to travel the earth? absolutely not.

Will people care? The people who care about their country, their countries people, and them only. AKA, ignorant people ignoring the fact that boarders are just imaginary lines of people that are greedy.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by gandhi]

I would do the same as Luis.

And yes, I would expect authorities to look for me.

It is part of the game. And if you really think about it government could have shut off the faucet at anytime. The technology is here and government has more than enough power to tell businesses what and what not to do.

Illegals are here because government needs a scapegoat to blame things on.

Every time jobs go overseas- Politicians scream illegals.

Every time there is a terrorist event- Politicians scream illegals

I hear many talking about securing the border, yet 19 hijackers got in legally with visas.

Yet, you seldom here people talking about the visa program.

reply to post by Matrix777

Do you believe that seeking a better life for ones family should constitute as a crime?

Isn't that what a Robber is doing? A Burglar? Seeking money for a better life? How about those that kill for money? Should we prosecute them for seeking a better life?

A criminal gets prosecuted. Entering any country is illegal and should be prosecuted.

Should we lock down the borders and ignore them or do you believe there is something more that we can do to help them?

Sure

Help them liberate themselves from the repressive government and learn to make do for themselves. Mexico has tremendous resources.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Matrix777

 

Do you believe that seeking a better life for ones family should constitute as a crime?

Isn't that what a Robber is doing? A Burglar? Seeking money for a better life? How about those that kill for money? Should we prosecute them for seeking a better life?

A criminal gets prosecuted. Entering any country is illegal and should be prosecuted.

Should we lock down the borders and ignore them or do you believe there is something more that we can do to help them?

Sure

Help them liberate themselves from the repressive government and learn to make do for themselves. Mexico has tremendous resources.

Semper

Of course I wouldn't advocate violence or theft in order to better ones life.

I think that there is a gross discrepancy in your comparison however. You are comparing a violent criminal with an individual who is only trying to earn enough money to feed his family back at home. The violent criminal should certainly be behind bars. The latter example however, is an individual who is actually employed in the workforce and is not bringing any harm to others.

It certainly may be considered illegal, however is it immoral?

I would do the same as Luis, anyone in their right mind would.

As for borders.. bah!!! This world belongs to everyone not just those that live within a CREATED border. These laws are, to me, illegal in themselves, especially when you really look at how a lot of the Countries and their Borders were created in the first place!!
Most of the people that are in this position are there because of us Westerners, not only from us being a Fascist regime within ourselves, but they see what we have and what we have built, and the false happiness that is portrayed, they want that to, why cant they be as "happy" as the westerners,
"look at what they have.... Look at what they have TAKEN from us, isn't it our turn to be happy!!! "

Everyone deserves to be happy, they want a comfortable lifestyle just as much as we do, why do they not deserve to try somewhere else if its not working for them where they are, the red tape and crap that stops them from coming in is getting bigger and bigger by the minute, if they are genuine just bloody let them in.... no ifs or buts!

Semperfortis of course if you kill to achieve this, then yes its wrong and they should be punished, there is no debate about that.


[edit on 3-1-2010 by The_Seeker]

Originally posted by jam321
I would do the same as Luis.

And yes, I would expect authorities to look for me.

It is part of the game. And if you really think about it government could have shut off the faucet at anytime. The technology is here and government has more than enough power to tell businesses what and what not to do.

Illegals are here because government needs a scapegoat to blame things on.

Every time jobs go overseas- Politicians scream illegals.

Every time there is a terrorist event- Politicians scream illegals

I hear many talking about securing the border, yet 19 hijackers got in legally with visas.

Yet, you seldom here people talking about the visa program.

Good post. I agree with you.

Thanks for the contribution.

reply to post by Matrix777


Wrong

I'm comparing criminals..

Only in your mind are they different.. In the eyes of the law, they are criminals.

Want people to be able to just walk into the country? Fine.. I'll support that when you vote in the people that change the law. Until then, they are criminals and should be prosecuted.

Semper

I wouldn't

Your better off standing and fighting to make the world immediately around you a better place...

Location can't change who you are inside, we all dream of a better world but running isn't the answer at best your only leaving others behind to suffer a fate you avoided by not standing up...

I recently was divorced to see my kids I had to move to the middle of nowhere a place where I was not sure I could economically be viable at all, pay the fare via govt intervention regardless and rebuild my life...

I stood my ground and I am doing it and doing it in style from the middle of nowhere...

Where there is a will there is a way...

I despise much of what America is becoming atm to be quite honest...

But I wont be running to greener pastures, I'll fight if I have to not meaning physically per say, simply my voice, my mind and one person around me at a time any way I can to change hearts and minds...

But I wont run...

I'm as useless at one latitude as another if I lack the capacity to believe in myself and change the world around me... I'll fail here or there under pressure unless I learn how to survive and make the world around me a better place...

Location can't fix my heart or the people around me...only I can.

But you see in America you have far more options than someone living in a third world slum right?

I understand your message. However, comparing the first world and the third world is like comparing apples and oranges.

oh i absolutely would.
not only would i ,I wouldn't report luis if i found out.
people are people,separating them with borders is stupid.

yes i would expect to be hunted by the police,but guess what.
everyone has to hide from our police these days anyways,why should luis be any different?

Originally posted by The_Seeker
I would do the same as Luis, anyone in their right mind would.

As for borders.. bah!!! This world belongs to everyone not just those that live within a CREATED border. These laws are, to me, illegal in themselves, especially when you really look at how a lot of the Countries and their Borders were created in the first place!!
Most of the people that are in this position are there because of us Westerners, not only from us being a Fascist regime within ourselves, but they see what we have and what we have built, and the false happiness that is portrayed, they want that to, why cant they be as "happy" as the westerners,
"look at what they have.... Look at what they have TAKEN from us, isn't it our turn to be happy!!! "

Everyone deserves to be happy, they want a comfortable lifestyle just as much as we do, why do they not deserve to try somewhere else if its not working for them where they are, the red tape and crap that stops them from coming in is getting bigger and bigger by the minute, if they are genuine just bloody let them in.... no ifs or buts!

Semperfortis of course if you kill to achieve this, then yes its wrong and they should be punished, there is no debate about that.


[edit on 3-1-2010 by The_Seeker]

I agree with you. Everyone should be given the opportunity to better themselves. Everyone on earth deserves to be fed and sheltered. Not just those that are priveledged enough to take for granted what many in the third world could only dream of possessing.

I probably would but...
Let's not be too simplistic about this. We have 'illegals' in the UK too. And having been a casual worker for agencies, I have spoken to some who have done it.
Plenty people come for economic reasons but are not desperate.

With all this talk about how horrible it is in Mexico it's a wonder anyone survived there before American infrastructure existed.
One has to wonder what millions of hard working mexicans could achieve if they worked together towards a better mexico.

reply to post by Matrix777


The rules are there for a reason, namely to stop a flood of people moving around the globe which would upset the balances in whatever countries they decided to pitch up in. There are only finite resources (jobs/healthcare/education) available in most (if not all) countries, so having an unending tide coming from another country is not sustainable.

We have the same issue here in the UK (and a Government that has admitted trying to socially engineer the UK into a multi-cultural sinkhole) and it hasn't worked. Now we have cultures unwilling to intigrate and some elements of their society actively trying to change our own.

Our Government faces increasing costs for education, healthcare, transport etc due to a rising population fuelled mostly by immigration, yet these immigrant do not put into the economy what they take out of it, meaning less for all. even when illegals are discovered and "arrested", the stupid rules mean they cannot be deported without the correct paperwork, so they burn their passports and, hey presto, they get to stay here indefinately.

We are not "anti-immigrant" in the UK, but it has to be at a sustainable level to allow the country to adjust and cope, not the way it has been done and allow in millions inside of ten years, most who don't speak english or give a crap about this country at all.

Thanks for all of your responses.

So as far as I know opinions are about half and half. Some believe that Mexico should sort out its own problems. Some believe that they would do the same as Luis if placed in a similar circumstance.

For those in the sort out your own problems camp, can I ask why you feel you should be the only one entitled to a prosperous existence?

Why should others not be afforded a piece of the pie? Why should invisble borders continue to divide humanity? Do you believe that this is the best way to move forward and evolve as a species? If yes, then why?

I still find it difficult to blame Luis for his actions.