New study proves someones "god" is nothing more than one's own image! Religion crumbles...

Originally posted by reasonable
I'd love to discuss the topic but at the moment I am responding to all the attacks against me. Look at the thread stats please: 29 flags +4 more stars and rising.

Popularity is no excuse for poor manners, being condescending and insulting people. If you think it is, then you are on the wrong forum. End of story.

I highly doubt a trolling exercise would produce those numbers. Notice the flags vs. actual 'non-believers' speaking out. More proof that some are still scared to take on religion, but they'll come around.

Ok. Thank you for admitting that the basis of your argument is to stick it to religion at all costs.

Wrong.. All of my threads are related to conspiracies in religion, especially this one.

The thread might be. Your replies most certainly aren't. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted what I did.

You are showing a lot of bias mod.

Bias? To whom? I think its fairly well known on ATS that I'm an atheist. So please, explain my bias.

No wait...let me explain. My bias is to the Terms and Conditions of the site. You know - the ones you agreed to when you signed up.

The ones that say

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Maybe you'll ban me? The owners of ATS might not appreciate that since lately I am giving them huge traffic which in turn generates huge revenue. I have one thread approaching 1,000 posts, this one may follow suit. There must be something to it aye?

Might come as a suprise for you but this is a message board with a set of Terms and Conditions for its members that requires civility and decorum - not an ego stroking contest.

I volunteered to be a moderator here in order to ensure that those Terms and Conditions were applied. The site owners wrote those Terms and Conditions. Any notion of popularity is irrelevant as far as the T&C are concerned, because they apply to ALL members, ALL the time. Even you.

So, I'll ask you again to discuss the actual topic YOU posted, in a civil manner, and I'll point you at this;

5b) Cooperation: You will, if asked by myself or a moderator, cease posting any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor taste by the representatives of the message board.

I trust that makes things perfectly clear.

Originally posted by AshleyD
...My faith is very precious to me but to take questions, criticism, or conspiracies as an attack would be wrong. I'm not one who considers questioning of religion as an attack in itself. But then there is also blatant trolling.

'I have a problem with Christianity because I feel the Bible has been spliced together too many times so how can we follow something we don't even know is accurate?'

A.O.K.

'Christians suck and you are all mindless, dribbling morons who worship your sky daddy. ROFCOPTERS.'

Not so much. lol

[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

Right --

I have no problem with discussing religion here on ATS, but the OP is erroneously using that study he link as some sort of justification for bashing the Judeo/Christian/Muslim version of God.

I'm not even a religious man, and I can see how the OP is way out of line. The results of that study have nothing to do with what he said in the past 10+ pages of posts.

I suppose all you need to do here on ATS is yell "Christians Suck!" very loudly and you too will get stars and flags. It's one of those hotbutton phrases like "UFO" or "9/11".

[edit on 12/1/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by rexusdiablos


I believe this to be due to a mindless tendency amongst humanity. We do have choices, but many of us, in our weakness, choose to follow the path of least resistance. In this case, we succumb to authority, which, more often than not, does not have our best interests at heart. This continues a nasty downward spiral of exploitation and increasing stupidity in my view. It is not that people are not smart or wise, per se, but it is that they have faith that they are stupid and unwise. In this whole dynamic, we make ourselves the dinners of tyrants, and we perpetuate all that we claim to not want.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by downisreallyup]

Originally posted by reasonable
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

No. Wanting separation of church & state + freedom from religion is not telling people what to believe. It's telling them to mind their own business.

What is interesting is that, if these people (the ones who insist upon their beliefs being imposed on others) kindly did as you asked, ie mind their own. The this thread would in all likelihood not exists.

The overwhelming impression one gets from the up in arms defenders of xtianity, is that it's ok for you,I and others to bend over and take it up the rear and not complain about it.

If xtians are honest and would sincerely like to do something about these "alleged Attacks" upon their jesus god or their beliefs in it. Al they have to do is get together suspend their differences for for a while, and resolve to do everything they can to prevent their beliefs being forced upon those who don't want it.

It's not even difficult.

I really hope this thread isn't shut down because it ruffled the feathers of a few zealots (and no, I'm not inferring that all Christians are zealots).

reply to post by reasonable


Yes, it does seem that quite a large number of people follow their own natural inclinations when it comes to "doing what Jesus would do." But, I would suggest that is not because faith in Jesus is faulty, but rather it is because people either A) don't really know what Jesus would do because they don't really understand his words, B) they confuse modern Americanism with Biblical truth, or C) they really don't believe God in the first place.

I will pull a few examples from my own life where I have asked in prayer "what should I do?" and here are the answers I received:

1) When my first wife left me for another man, my first human inclination was to "kill them both." She had gotten herself dressed up and was going out with her new boyfriend (while married to me), and she told me to make sure I put the kids to bed on time. I begged her not to go as I lay there on the floor crying from the pain of what she was doing. She was being brazen about it because I had found out about her affair from some "friends" who knew all about it. After she was gone, I cried out to God to help me with my thoughts of hurt and anger, and what came my mind was "love your enemies, and pray for those who despitefully use you." I asked God to help me have the strength to do that, and He did. I found myself praying for both of them, and the anger began to leave me. Eventually, after my wife and I were divorced, I was quite able to go to their house, to play billiards with Tom (the guy she married), to have dinner at their house, and to essentially show "love to my enemies." Ten years later, Tom ended up apologizing to me for any pain he had caused me, and I told him that I had forgiven him long ago.

2) When I worked at a software company, I had a verbal agreement with the owners that in exchange for them paying me very little to write a piece of software for them, they would give me 50% of what they made on the first sale of the product, and 10% thereafter of each copy they sold. I wrote the product, and they did pay me the 50%. Then, they backed out of paying me anything more, denying that they agreed to that. The reason is, they realized after I had written the program that they could sell it to every county highway department in the country, and make a LOT of money. At first I was going to sue them, and indeed had all my "ducks in a row" to do that. That was MY human desire, to have justice and make them pay for cheating me. I also felt a little "prick" in my conscience, so I decided to pray about it all, and ask God "what is your will in this matter?" Once again, I was reminded not to seek revenge, and to not get embroiled in human courts. So, I stopped my court case (which I'm sure I would have won because they did pay others at the company 10%, and I was not an employee, but a contractor, so my work did not fall under "work for hire" laws). It turns out that they made over 18 million dollars on the program, which 1.8 million would have been mine, but I did not pursue it because of "doing what Jesus would have done."

I have MANY more true stories like this in my life, where I have left good jobs and traveled by faith, had amazing answers to prayer, and seen many paranormal things in my life because I have made honest attempts to adjust my own thinking to what I had LEARNED the teachings of Jesus to be. And do not think that I was always this way. Before I proceeded to study the words of Christ and to live by them I was just as self-centered, self-absorbed, and SELF-DIRECTED as anybody else.

reply to post by reasonable


I would suggest that the results of this "study" are highly susceptible to the bias of the researcher, both in choosing the subjects, the questions asked, and the interpretations arrived at. I saw this to be highly true as I read through the article. There is often a huge difference between people that "attend church", and people who truly live by faith in the true teachings of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by AshleyD
That's like me saying if you were a real atheist you'd get out of your computer chair and live life if you thought this time is all you had or you'd get out there and help your fellow man if you thought this world is the only thing worth working for.
[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

Here's a better example. If you were a true Christian, you would advocate abandoning all human laws, closing all courts, and shutting down the prisons. After all, how could any earthly justice compare with an eternity in heaven or hell as a result of your actions during this life?

If you are not a Christian, and by your posts it would seem you are not, then how is it that you know what a "true Christian" would advocate? In other words, what are your credentials.

Some Christians interpret the "render unto Caesar" that they follow earthly laws, therefore, I ask again what is your credential or subject matter expertise that you would be the "go to guy" for an alternate interpretation?

Moreover, what would be the purpose of hospitals and doctors? If you save a person with an appendicitis, aren't you fighting God's will or altering his plans? Why isn't simple prayer sufficient when a loved one is having a heart attack? God can create a universe but he can't clear a clogged artery?

The purpose of hospitals and doctors would be to treat sick people--English is your primary language, yes? Doctors are people that treat those that are ill, yes? I'm just asking because you seemed confused as to what the terms meant.

As for why a simple prayer is insufficient for a clogged artery then I ask you to interpret "prayer". While you're at it cite for me where in the Gospels (since this is more Christians bashing than Jew or Muslim bashing) Jesus talks about clogged arteries.

I can cite several examples where the apostles came up dry in the prayer over the sick scenario and were told that for something serious fasting and praying was necessary, so maybe a good 40 day fast over the artery will work.

I respect the need for forum moderators, but don't you think it's hypocritical for a forum moderator to tell someone sitting at their computer that they are wasting their life? If you're trying to discourage what you see as "personal attacks," then making a personal attack doesn't seem like the best way to make your point and set a good example.

I'm sorry. I don't see AshleyD's name as moderating this forum.

I believe she was responding with a like question, and I hardly think that by lighting another fuse you are contributing to the good example you seem to yearn for.

However, if you consider all argument on the topic of religion to be a "personal attack," why is it that almost every topic is open to intellectual debate but challenging someone else's religious beliefs in a civil manner is taboo?

Hmmm...because the challenges are rarely intellectual?

Is this intellectual?

Originally posted by MrDudle
Maybe he doesn't do miracles because you touch yourself at night. On a serious note, god doesn't exist, nor is there any intrinsic value in anything. And if you are telling us that by saying god doesn't exist that means we are polluting your thread then you are just closed minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR I R MAD!!!!!!!!!!! Nah...basically dude/dudette you asked for thoughts. We give thoughts. If you don't like our thoughts then I suggest leaving?

Give that some thought and get back to me.

The moment human beings cease discussion, for any reason, is the moment that our culture begins to stagnate.

You are creating your own straw man then kicking the crap out of it. Discussions are individuals engaging each other for the purpose of better understanding. What occurs in these threads is trolling. That is why people are sick of it. Some posters discuss, but the majority of posts are garbage.

You know this, so don't be coy.

Some of the most important discoveries ever made have been made against the will of the obstinate majority. A scientist is not afraid to open his conclusions to the scrutiny of the academic community.

You don't know many scientists, do you? Ever hear of NDA's or JRA's? Almost every scientist has ponied up and signed one.

If you or anyone else wants to assert that religious beliefs are any more valid than scientific theories grounded in empirical research, the first step is to open those beliefs to real, open, and honest discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly. If there was any attempts solidified in true open and honest discussion as opposed to name-calling, generalizing, and sarcasm I am certain most people would be open to such. Unfortunately, most of the threads end up sounding like a fight between middle schoolers.

reply to post by moocowman


Listen I think that many, atheists and Christians, etc., have been led by wolves. We are all guilty, but we can change. The bad behavior of one group is no excuse for the bad behavior of another. Then, one has no leg to stand upon, as one IS the exact same thing as what one is railing against.

This creates a drama of war, a circle if you will. The drama circles around a center. One could call it the center of logic of that system, or drama. A drama naturally creates characters who seek that center, the essence of that story, or its author. We, as the characters we play, seek the center, and we become more and more aligned with the personality of this author. If the story is one of war, we become more and more aligned with the author of war, if you will. This authority could properly be called a sort of devilish authority. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.............

Please, for the love of whatever it is we are seeking, can we not see this?

[edit on 1-12-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I do agree with you. My post was in reply to another post that asked why I felt anything critical of religion was perceived as an attack. I was perplexed by their comment due to the fact I expressed no such sentiment in this thread and have actually stated numerous times that I have no issue with honest criticism/questioning of religion.

And no, I do not feel that this thread is an example of a honest critique, to put it politely. But my post above was a general comment towards my feelings of religious criticism (fair game) and not this particular thread.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by reasonable
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

No. Wanting separation of church & state + freedom from religion is not telling people what to believe. It's telling them to mind their own business.

What is interesting is that, if these people (the ones who insist upon their beliefs being imposed on others) kindly did as you asked, ie mind their own. The this thread would in all likelihood not exists.

The overwhelming impression one gets from the up in arms defenders of xtianity, is that it's ok for you,I and others to bend over and take it up the rear and not complain about it.

MooCow, when your television is invaded with as many pro-Christian ads as mine is with half-naked women, half-naked teens, and depictions of violence then we can talk about how Christianity is overwhelming you with its presence. Presence on television? Name a pro-Christian television program. For your one I'll name you twenty that are not. How many Christian bands are in the top twenty and make it on radio? You say your child was inundated with Christianity in your school? Ours don't allow you to talk about Christmas. You can't pray in school. You can't talk about religion. We now have "winter breaks". All of which I am fine with by the way My tax dollars help pay for abortions, the death penalty, and war. None of which I am fine with by the way.

Tell me again about how my beliefs are impressed upon you and how I am asking you to bend over for me.

If xtians are honest and would sincerely like to do something about these "alleged Attacks" upon their jesus god or their beliefs in it. Al they have to do is get together suspend their differences for for a while, and resolve to do everything they can to prevent their beliefs being forced upon those who don't want it.

It's not even difficult.

How am I forcing my belief on you?

It's a simple question. I'm asking MooCow. Then I want you to ask yourself if your views are being forced on me. I'm asking MooCow.

reply to post by reasonable

Is this the same Psychology that started off as the science of consciousness...
...but when that mission failed...
...resorted to describing human behaviour.

So let me get this straight...
...Psychology can't explain 'consiousness' but now they can explain God?

Wow! You just proved there is no God!
I will tune in Tomorrow for the meaning of life.
Thursday please explain ET's
Friday The History of Evolution......please be detailed though. I would like a detailed explaination of the progression of not just Man, but each animal, bugs, plant life, and OH, don't forget the evolution of all micro-organisms too.

Monday, I will have a new list. Thanks though, I can get more football in on Sunday now!!! Plus, I am taking up drinking again. I just called my Pastor and told him to blow me.

Originally posted by elocin

Originally posted by reasonable
reply to post by semperfortis

 

People are learning how the human mind works = the end times are coming.

hot damn I love ATS!

That's what I thought.. and also, if disclosure is coming, it seems to fit in line with that, as well. The religious people pose a big problem for it, so now is the time to start scientifically disproving God..

And the Vatican now says that ETs are God's creation too, so it's okay to believe in them. Which is completely opposite of their previous stance on aliens.

These things just not what religious people want to believe. It sounds like the beginning of the end of religion.

Dream on I'm afraid. There will always be enough ignorant and/or frightened people to ensure that religion survives to help them prop up their weaknesses.

reply to post by downisreallyup


I'm not calling you a liar though since I'm not a liar myself I will but offer you a truthful response: I don't believe in some of the claims you've made in your post. It's nothing personal, I just don't.

Secondly, if there is any verity in your claims, then there is certainly no reverence. Surely you're familiar with your own scripture that seems to provide you with so much counsel, right?:

Mathew 6:1-8

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Prayer 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How about 1 Corinthians 5:6:

6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?

Jeremiah 9:23

23 This is what the LORD says: "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches,

Conclusively, your post is decidedly UNCHRISTIAN. Yes, I'm criticizing the submissions of your post but I do not disrespect you nor am I disrespecting you. This should be allowed in a public forum. To clarify and to repeat, I'm not Christian.











[edit on 1-12-2009 by rexusdiablos]

As I see it God/God in Heaven is the name the Human race gave to Beings that came from the skies.

In the Universe the correct word is Creator's (plural)

Jesus was nothing more then a Human with an Alien Soul transfer.

There are many Alien Soul Transfers here walking on Earth.

Nothing that has been taught or has been passed down from generation to generation is right really.

I have and others here have tried to say this but as usual it has to come from people that don't have a clue before it is believed by the ones that experience................. my, my.

Left...right....left....right....left.....right.......left.......right........left.....right.......left......right.........left.......right........... .....left.................right............left.....right
reaction............reaction............reaction...............reaction..........reaction...........reaction.................reaction.............reac tion............reaction

This is the problem, yet it sees itself as the solution.

Originally posted by reasonable
People can believe whatever hohaa they like as long as they keep it to themselves where it belongs. I do not need these people telling me how to live my life, what i can listen to on the radio, what is acceptable on TV, that I cannot hang out laundry on a clothes line because underwear is offensive, that my kid must be taught fairytales in school about the earth being 4,000 yrs old. I could go on for pages. Get it now?

I actually agree with most of what you just said. However you are blaming the wrong culprit. The laws written and passed by our government are what we must live by, so you can blame them for telling you how to live your life. The FCC (an independent United States government agency) was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable, so blame them for whats on or not on the radio or TV. The underwear thing...LMAO!!! Schools teach what they are told to by the state and that like a few other complaints you have goes back to the same suspect...the government. So are you getting it? Are you seeing the common theme? Your enemy is not God, it is the government. Now can you prove they don't exist?

[edit on 1-12-2009 by ch1ldofthe70s]

Reasonable...

First of all let me qualify my response by letting you know that I'm an atheist and an Objectivist.

I have to wonder when someone makes a post with such a grandiose proclamation like "Religion Crumbles" do they pitch a little tent in their pants? A cheap little thrill from sniping at people's deepest-held beliefs because they just can't stand it that not everyone agrees with them. Because, after all, they're omniscient and have all the answers. Pretentious much?

It's cheap tricks like your post title that make religious people WANT TO FIGHT BACK. You hurt us live-and-let-live atheists with this junk.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by spaznational]