I beg of you read this. Stop the drama...

reply to post by ZeroGhost

Stop thinking, weighing, measuring trying to fix things... No need.

Are you kidding me? While your in a state of nirvana the rest of the world is still suffering from starvation and oppression. Without thinking critically, weighing decisions, measuring your own life and trying to fix things, those who suffer don't stand a chance.

Buddha withdrew from a state of nirvana because he realized the necessity to become a teacher to the rest of the world. While your meditating while saying all is fine, there are those of us who are making REAL changes in the world.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

Originally posted by gelly
I know how to change the world, but unfortunately people who do have ideas must tread softly or face a quiet disappearance. We all know the problems with this world is greed and the lust for power. So taking away money from powerful men is not an easy task. It all comes down to "Good Money" vs. "Evil Money". I promise something is coming...

I think I like you (something is coming). I would like to hear your thoughts on how to change the world. We could always use another view. I am sick of trying to explain. If someone else was here to explain it would really take the burden off me. I can't stay awake forever and I can't reply to everyone.

Someone else needs to step up/step in. Why not you?

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
reply to post by ZeroGhost

 

Stop thinking, weighing, measuring trying to fix things... No need.

Are you kidding me? While your in a state of nirvana the rest of the world is still suffering from starvation and oppression. Without thinking critically, weighing decisions, measuring your own life and trying to fix things, those who suffer don't stand a chance.

Buddha withdrew from a state of nirvana because he realized the necessity to become a teacher to the rest of the world. While your meditating while saying all is fine, there are those of us who are making REAL changes in the world.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

Yes others are starving. Sadly our unconstitutional taxes could easily feed all of those starving people.

reply to post by Draves


More "income tax is unconstitutional" talk? Allow me to clear this up for you. Income tax is not unconstitutional. It's in the Sixteenth Amendment.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

reply to post by NibiruWarrior

I think the whole point though, CmdrZero, is to remove the political realities of the present, isn't it?

Agreed. My point was that you can't get people off the couch to do anything at all in defense of themselves. Peaceful protest cuts into American Idol and requires one to turn off the TV and get off the couch. You won't get anyone's attention with small numbers and even if you did it with large numbers the problem of an upper layer of corruption remains. This layer of corruption has to be removed once and for all for a permanent fix. You may coerce capitulation for a time but it would revert back to the old business as soon as everyone was back in front of the TV.

It is the political realities of the present that allow the TPTB to play their game, and have their funding in place.

Once again, agreed. That's what we're discussing- how to make effective and permanent change.

We should peacefully wipe the floor with them by not going to work, not paying taxes, marching (peacefully) on the political capitals, whatever it takes.

No argument with the possible exception that wiping the floor with them is much too lenient on them. As to the rest, how do you get enough people involved to do it? I would have expected crowds with torches and pitchforks already- it ain't happening. How long can people go without pay? How many people can you round up that don't mind being the first to be prosecuted for income tax evasion?

The points I tried to make were:
A. People aren't hurting bad enough to do anything yet, peaceful or otherwise and most won't lift a finger in their own defense anyway.
B. TPTB are prepared for us no matter what move we make. We've been boxed into a corner with few real options none of which are palatable.

I know, as you do, that the beast could be starved ($$$) but the problem is getting enough people willing to starve with it until it caves in. Absent cutting off the money what's left in the arsenal? Like I said, it's going to be ugly.

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
reply to post by Draves

 

That is why we should step up and make this world the way we want it so our children don't have to.

And just what specifically is the world according to what "we" want?

What "we" want is popular vote for every bill. No more need for politicians. "We" could choose what we want from there. We could make every decision relevant to our lives ourselves. WE could then change things. WE is what matters. It is not THEM it is US. It is not I. I don't want to decide. I want everyone to decide everything. I want people to step up. It sounds like too much work right now, but this is our lives and our decedents lives we are talking about. It isn't all about us in the here and now.

The only reason this seems like such a daunting task is because the governments is so overran with legislation. We don't need the number of laws there are now. Then there are the unconstitutional laws. What will we do about them. Everyone had ignored them for 70+ years. Why not keep going? Why not? Then it is someone else's problem.

How could employees refuse to pay income tax? Isn't that almost always deducted by their employer? People are too scared. They are worried about how they will feed their kids tomorrow. They would rather be "peaceful" and lay down. I talk to people every day who don't want to stir the pot and would rather sing praises to our president and Congress. They're brainwashed.

How will your plan to gather enough people to agree to stopping paying income tax be effective? I'm really wondering.....

your history is very flawed,

ghandi was a puppet and he played his part, and then was discarded after he was used. Despite all that peaceful "resistance" India is still very much a vassal state of Great Britain to all but the most ignorant of people. India won't go to the bathroom without her majesty's permission... besides, it's quite a fact that he was a member of...ill let you figure that one out since you have access to such accurate history..

The thing about protest is...if you have enough guns you can always just ignore it, and then feed tripe to the ignorant masses that someone at the top of the pyramid actually cares about their protests. It works wonders while you build the concentration camps and train a sizable force of secret police. After which that is said and done you can send said protesters or others that enlighten the sheep to a all expense paid trip to the slaughter house.

Such tactics and concepts are so old that they are new again...

ignoring a protest, a boycott, or other peaceful demonstration from the peasant breeds?...easiest thing in the book

ignore your unconquerable soul and the voice of reason in your head? easy for those that lack volition, the rest of us simply lack the numbers...

ignore a burning bullet in your chest? don't think anyone has yet to figure that one out

[edit on 8-11-2009 by injunfeller]

reply to post by injunfeller

ghandi was a puppet and he played his part, and then was discarded after he was used. Despite all that peaceful "resistance" India is still very much a vassal state of Great Britain to all but the most ignorant of people. India won't go to the bathroom without her majesty's permission... besides, it's quite a fact that he was a member of...ill let you figure that one out since you have access to such accurate history..

Please enlighten us. What organization was Ghandi a member of? NWO? Illuminati? Do you have any evidence to back up this speculation? Of course you don't.

And are you really so cynical as to believe TBTB are training secret police and would attempt to destroy dissent? They don't need to. They thrive on dissent. The problem is the dissent is coming from opposite sides of the political spectrum so it cancels itself out. TBTB don't need to lift a finger to stay in power. It's a self perpetuating machine.

You beg. I read.

I think its ok to think what you think.

And me too.

Originally posted by Draves
Oh yeah...the media comes up. That is what theses sites and the internet is for. The media doesn't control anything. The government does! Dig into the rabbit hole. I swear it will f* you up worse than any drug.

I know what you mean. However, the majority do not have internet access and those who do generally do not use it to expand their minds. That is a problem.

People do not question, they do not think, and they are generally comfortable struggling in our current system. They literally perceive the world according to the paradigm we live in, and they can imagine nothing beyond it.

The media and the government are only tools used to intellectually oppress the majority. They have control over those who believe in their authority. These things are only ideas, mental constructs to which individuals sacrifice their power.

As long as people believe in the authority of these make-believe "institutions" and doubt their own authority over their own lives, any action taken will go nowhere.

Again, I recommend to focus on teaching the children in your life. Most adults are too deeply indoctrinated to see the light at this point.

But truly. If I could give everything I am, everything I was, Everything I could be, I would easily give everything if it meant the world could grow up the way I want. I wish, I hope, I dream. We'll see.

I do commend you for your passion. It's important to have people in our society who believe in a better future for mankind. Passionate idealism can be dangerous though. One person's perfect Utopia is often fascism to others. The ability to compromise is crucial.

I'm not arguing with you, only offering my personal perspective. I'm not even asking you to agree with me.

Originally posted by injunfeller
your history is very flawed,

ghandi was a puppet and he played his part, and then was discarded after he was used. Despite all that peaceful "resistance" India is still very much a vassal state of Great Britain to all but the most ignorant of people. India won't go to the bathroom without her majesty's permission... besides, it's quite a fact that he was a member of...ill let you figure that one out since you have access to such accurate history..

The thing about protest is...if you have enough guns you can always just ignore it, and then feed tripe to the ignorant masses that someone at the top of the pyramid actually cares about their protests. It works wonders while you build the concentration camps and train a sizable force of secret police. After which that is said and done you can send said protesters or others that enlighten the sheep to a all expense paid trip to the slaughter house.

Such tactics and concepts are so old that they are new again...

ignoring a protest, a boycott, or other peaceful demonstration from the peasant breeds?...easiest thing in the book

ignore your unconquerable soul and the voice of reason in your head? easy for those that lack volition, the rest of us simply lack the numbers...

ignore a burning bullet in your chest? don't think anyone has yet to figure that one out

[edit on 8-11-2009 by injunfeller]

It does not matter what Gandhi was or wasn't. If he was really a member of a secret society they still wanted him to convince the public. He preached peaceful resistance and it changed India.


He accomplished a lot. He did it without violence. We can do the same. No more devide and conquer. Take the good from everything and meld it into a workable solution. It will take hell in the meantime, but it is worth it. The party system needs to go. We need popular vote. I cannot stress that enough. When popular vote comes into play the only people accountable are the people. You can't blame congress, the senate or the pres. It is really truly the countries fault. Accountability.

Can anyone really say that we can't just stop working and then the government wont listen?

Well I guess it is easy...words. They wont listen. Do you really believe that however? Do you really believe that we cannot change things? Do you believe we have no power? Sigh....


Edit-the fact he was killed just added flame to the resistance. His death made them step up in his place and work more for themselves.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Draves]

reply to post by eMachine


It can be very dangerous. I guess What i mean to say is I wish for everyone to be happy. It requires compromise. But is something I have wished for since I can remember. Every time my dad gave my sister and I a wish bone I was always wished for peace. I wished for peace when I held my breath through a tunnel. I wished for happiness when I saw a shooting star and when I saw 1111. I don't care if I get burned up accomplishing it. We will all be forgotten in the real end. If it takes one person to be a martyr to make the future better for everyone is it not worth it (especially when the person accepts it)? It really sucks, but it might be what it takes.

I just need a good how, and a lot of people.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Draves]

Originally posted by Draves

Originally posted by injunfeller
Can anyone really say that we can't just stop working and then the government wont listen?

Well I guess it is easy...words. They wont listen. Do you really believe that however? Do you really believe that we cannot change things? Do you believe we have no power? Sigh....

I'll answer those questions. I DO believe we can change things, but I don't think it will take anything less than bloodshed. I DO believe we have power, but we have to take it back, probably by force. Politeness won't accomplish anything in this situation, IMO. It hasn't worked so far, and our rights are being ripped from us every day. "THEY" aren't peaceful! Do you think they will willingly allow their power to be taken?

If anyone has a peaceful solution that will be effective, please let me know. I don't think a violent revolution is anyone's ideal, but it's probably necessary. For your plan to work, it will take a global consciousness. We're not there yet.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by UnityFT]

reply to post by Draves


Best not to worry about everyone else because you cannot do anything about them and quite simply to force your agenda down other's throats makes you no better than those you condemn. Regardless of if your heart's in the right place or not. "The road to hell is paved in good intentions."
"“Half of the results of a good intentions are evil; half the results of an evil intention are good.”

Mark Twain


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]