Obama Signs Defense Policy Bill That Includes 'Hate Crime' Legislation

reply to post by andy1033


not the stupidity of the police, they have their own style of stupidity...the reason black on white crime is not an issue is because of the cowardice of the press and of the politicians because they are afraid of someone pulling the race card on them. I know this is a bad example, but the book "THE TURNER DIARIES" dealt with such a reality, where the majority was afraid to do anything for fear of being branded a racist. Ask anyone who is white that has spent any amount of time in a largely black or latino community if it is any different when the shoe is on the other foot, and I would wager the consensus would be a resounding no!

reply to post by dntwastetime


Nothing is gone. And bills aren't law, they're psuedo law and jargon. Its up to people to go into their representatives office, personally, and phone, and tell them that no bill will be obeyed unless you endorse it personally. That you are not a slave and that you will be publically non-complying with their treasonous bills and not electing them. Then you get signatures of those who will publically flaunt this.

Personally, certain things should not be said, as they are hate crimes. Anti gay comments are a prime example. However, isn't this the bill where saying that zionists or the bloodline conspiracies exist and that they are the coporate entrenched evil that they are would be deemed a hate crime, or anti Jewish. Whereas, its not. Its like saying that the Mafia is organized crime, pimps, drug runners, and evil, and it is, but not saying anything bad about Italians. Nor is criticizing the pope who was a nazi, and disagreeing with any organized religion the same thing as saying christians are bad, or muslims, or Italians, for the Vatican is by proximity very close to Rome, for a reason.

In other words, apply some common sense and don't follow bad orders, because thats whats wrong with the world.

Nothing is over. All this is is a public display of power, and you guys need to rip that power away and smack them in the proverbial face and put them in their place, and next time, don't elect any bloodlines. I would elect a homeless person off the streets before electing anyone those parties cough up.


[edit on 28-10-2009 by Unity_99]

reply to post by Awolscout


Well speaking as someone who grew up gay in the South I tell you that not all crimes are viewed the same by the police. I have had friends who had been beaten so bad they were in ICU for a week and the police wouldnt even lift a finger. They took a report and filed it in the "round" file, despite the fact they knew exactly who did it. THATS the reason we need hate crime legislation. I also lived in Memphis for 3 years and would see and hear about things like this all time. There were a few good cops there but most of them would laugh in your face if you told them that someone hit (beat, harrassed, etc) you. They could care less. Having hate crimes a acknowledged at the federal level is very important.

reply to post by AllInMyHead


Having hate crime legislation will not fix that. That is just bad policing as they could still have been charged with assault on various levels, maybe up to and including with deadly force or a deadly weapon.

Having this legislation will not make bad cops do good things. There are bad cops all over as well as good cops. Those that are good will continue to be so those that don’t give a rats rear will continue to not care.

Those cops were unfortunately the later. They should be dismissed from their position if everything is as you say it is. If not there should at least be an investigation into way they “did nothing when they knew who did it”.

I have no problem with people who are gay that is their choice; I work with and have known many gays, my wife used to date women before we got together. But I should have the rights to say things like I am opposed to the actions of homosexuality. That is my belief and my first amendment right should guarantee my right to state that.


Again your friends were not being helped because we needed legislation; they were not being helped because of the people who were supposed to be helping.

Raist

reply to post by Alxandro

So if two guys get killled at the same time, on the same day, in different parts of the city, but one of these guys happens to be gay, does this mean only the perp that killed the gay guy will do time? I sure hope Obama is there to tell the family of the non gay dead man that perp number 2 is not doing time because their loved one was not gay.

No, I am pretty sure that still counts as murder.

reply to post by glevel


I can really talk about black on white racism, but people would think your racist just for saying the truth.

OPinion:

Free speech is next on the chopping block believe it. This bill has been turned down like 10 times in the past. I am not asleep. Now its stuffed inside a 680 billion dollar murder bill! Killing millions of innocent people for nothing!!!!

GET REAL US LEADERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES Assaulting men because of there personal choices is a crime deserving of justice.
Yes I agree we need to have police, laws, and courts to an extent.
Yes I go along with most of the stuff thats happening .

I have to say NO to limiting freedom of speech and the CORE writings of the Constitution.

You can and should call me every name in the book. Thats what America is ALL about. We laugh at that. Black White all of it. We all accept you are allowed to do what you want and say what you want.
I am a 33 year old white guy Born raised with the mega personality type figure that is George Washington and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
There very school system embeded this into my mind.
All they are doing is activating me, they had it all wrapped up already, complete control with my personal non involvement .911 activated me. I am created by them. This type of laws and bills is activating a new area ins

What a hollow terrible world it will be without the hope the idea of freedom in America.

This is just a "foot in the door" law . This will apply to more and more and more and more, and more and more.Because that is all these dark beings want, MORE!! Actually they want it all.

Mark my words, this will soon affect even ATS itself.

Don't waste any more time

Originally posted by Alxandro
So if two guys get killled at the same time, on the same day, in different parts of the city, but one of these guys happens to be gay, does this mean only the perp that killed the gay guy will do time?

I sure hope Obama is there to tell the family of the non gay dead man that perp number 2 is not doing time because their loved one was not gay.

Maybe he will just tell the family of the non gay dead guy that he "acted stupidly."

It's a distinct possibility, given the lunacy of progressives.

Funny how we need laws on top of laws to "protect" people from hate speech and hate crimes. What will this accomplish other than violating a person's right to speak freely? Is it a hate crime when a gay man/woman says something towards me because I'm straight or is only in affect when it is against certain minorities?

You see, in the end this is hurtful to those on both sides of the fence in the sense that we didn't need an additional law in the first place. If you kill a man/woman for any reason, you are going to jail for life or put to death. You slander a person's name, guess what, there are laws against that too.

Seriously, what was the purpose of this new law other than the MAN wanting more control over our lives?

SEC. 4710. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION...(4) FREE EXPRESSION- Nothing in this division shall be construed to allow prosecution based solely upon an individual's expression of racial, religious, political, or other beliefs or solely upon an individual's membership in a group advocating or espousing such beliefs.

(5) FIRST AMENDMENT- Nothing in this division, or an amendment made by this division, shall be construed to diminish any rights under the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

(6) CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS- Nothing in this division shall be construed to prohibit any constitutionally protected speech, expressive conduct or activities (regardless of whether compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief), including the exercise of religion protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States and peaceful picketing or demonstration.

Source: thomas.loc.gov...:6:./temp/~c111ryxneP:e2000111:

First, this language is the last three paragraphs of the 'Act'. It specifically excludes "speech". The "Federal Hate Crime" only relates to actual violence, being "bodily injury" or "death".

Now, I think all of the "Hate Crime" legislation, at the Federal, State and local levels, are an absolute waste of time and energy. It is, simply, our legislators attempting to justify their existence, to their constituents. As far as I know, it is a crime in every part of the U.S. to cause "bodily injury" or "death", to another person. A person has "hate" anytime they assault someone. So now, instead it being a crime, it is really, really, really a crime. Ridiculous. Strictly an attempt to get votes. Nothing else.

And, to add it to a Defense spending bill? When will the lunacy stop?

Originally posted by jdl79
The second what someone says can be considered a crime of any sort, you no longer have freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if the issue is whether or not it is hateful, as the constitution does not make that distinction, nor should any public official be allowed to do so. Once a official is allowed to make such a distinction, said official also is given the ability to decide what constitutes hate speech. This, my friends, is a slippery slope none in truth should want to go down.

BINGO.

The "gay thing" is just camoflage.
This precedent can be twisted to fit most any agenda.

I expect this to have draconian implications in the near future if the xtian dominionists continue to control national policies. And it won't be anything to do with sexual orientation or racial profiles. When the right wing gets their claws sharpened on it.....watch what happens to anyone who speaks out against the lies of religions.

Originally posted by Awolscout
Hate Crime is such a false term... I mean in effect all crimes especially those against another human being which are what are covered under hate crimes are crimes of hate just cause a white dude punches another white dude versus a white dude punches a black dude, both are hate crimes since both involve hate... I can't stand the bureaucracy involved in whoever makes this stuff up

Yay! I see a voice of reason! These are crimes already covered, 'cause... they are crimes!

What some people seem to miss, and are so quick to jump on Repubs about is, this isn't about the laws, it is about the move.

If you give an inch, they take a mile. This is now along the lines of thought police, because for some people, the simplest remarks can be "taken" the wrong way.

If somone were, for instance, to overhear you stating you do not like dark meat, and a person with dark skin happens to be sitting close or walking by, they could infer a LOT of wrong things.

This reaches into peoples' heads, and makes it literally illegal to profess, if you are a Christian, that the Bible says one thing or another about gay people.

How it is said is one thing, how it is taken can sometimes be really far from reality.

Now that this has passed, it is only a matter of time before you lose your right to disagree with an action of the President, the police, or perhaps even the school principal.

People seem to get so caught up in politicizing everything, and are too blind to see the forest for the trees. This isn't about hate crimes and hate speech, it is about thought police and thought control, and making people fearful of speaking out about certain topics.

You watch, and mark my words, this will not be something done against the real people that commit hate crimes or hate speech, it will be used against people like Glenn Beck or Hannity, or Rush, because there is the real intent.

Grats on losing more of your rights, America, and being happy about it.

Originally posted by AllInMyHead
reply to post by Awolscout

 

Well speaking as someone who grew up gay in the South I tell you that not all crimes are viewed the same by the police. I have had friends who had been beaten so bad they were in ICU for a week and the police wouldnt even lift a finger. They took a report and filed it in the "round" file, despite the fact they knew exactly who did it. THATS the reason we need hate crime legislation. I also lived in Memphis for 3 years and would see and hear about things like this all time. There were a few good cops there but most of them would laugh in your face if you told them that someone hit (beat, harrassed, etc) you. They could care less. Having hate crimes a acknowledged at the federal level is very important.

I fail to understand why, when a crime was committed, the police failed to lift a finger. This is obvious abuse from the police, and people should have gone higher, including using the media. Beating someone and puttingthem in ICU is *already* a crime, it matters not *why*. It just makes no sense.

reply to post by Alethea


First and foremost let me start by saying that I am a christian. That being said I will also tell you not one bit of your post bothered me in the least, as I long ago realized my particular beliefs have been hijacked,driven, and twisted to fit someone elses purpose. The sad part of this is it is the one conspiracy I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. Back on topic, I am glad to see you understood what I was attempting to say in that jumbled up post.
What does continue to bother me is many here still do not think this will apply to speech simply because there is not an allowance for it within the bill. As I stated previously, the laws are already in place that will apply this to speech. Shoes come in pairs, as often do freedom restricting laws. While everyone is watching and waiting for the second shoe to drop, they will quickly realize, what they perceived as the first was actually the second. Sadly this probably won't be realized until the one walking on you is already into their second or third set of steps.

The NAZI party was rabbidly gay before Hitler started killing them all. These liberal lax laws will eventually lead to the arbitrary percecution of any citizen, including homosexuals.

The homosexuals who are pro "Hate Crime Bill" make me sick.

Originally posted by StopComplaining
The NAZI party was rabbidly gay before Hitler started killing them all. These liberal lax laws will eventually lead to the arbitrary percecution of any citizen, including homosexuals.

The homosexuals who are pro "Hate Crime Bill" make me sick.

Is it only homosexuals, who are pro the "Hate Crime Bill", that make you feel sick or did you mean anybody?

And whats with the "rabbidly" gay remark you make about the Nazi party, would you like to enlighten us on this remark?

reply to post by ldyserenity


I am in total agreement. If something like the Knoxville Massacre is not a "hate" crime, then there will never be any realistic chance of obvious anti white crimes ever being brought up as hate crimes. All this garbage is for is to silence people. When in the hell did the people in this country get so thin skinned and weak that they have to run to the damn government to tack on more legislation because this person at one time had thought or said something bad about this persons political correct group. I cannot count how many times I have been called cracker or jumped by a group of people that look nothing like me and do you know how many times the federal government came to the defense of my white skin? ZERO. Yeah there are hate crimes going on in this country, but they are never charged as such, because protecting whitey is so yesterday.

I noticed a lot of people saying this is a bill, but the first line of the story says this:

"President Obama signed into a law a $680 billion defense..."

"Obama, who signed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010 in an elaborate East Room ceremony at the White House..."

"The bill also includes a program Obama had threatened to veto..."

It is passed, not just a bill, but signed into law. I blame the text in the story for calling it a bill, and think that may be confusing some people. If I am incorrect, I apologize, but this isn't a bill as in waiting to be passed, it's a done deal.


When a Bill Becomes Law

www.votesmart.org...

The Bill Becomes A Law - once a bill is signed by the President or his veto is overridden by both houses it becomes a law and is assigned an official number.


So is it me or the article?

reply to post by WTFover


Have you ever heard of "Them's fightin' words!"?

www.freedomforum.org...

This is how it affects speech, not to mention the paragraphs you quoted had a key word. Solely.

Whole point being, it is the first step on the proverbial slippery slope, and I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Especially when Obama's theme is, if you don't think it will pass, tack it on to something you *know* the Repubs want, and they will *have* to pass it.

Hence, why it was tacked onto the defense bill. You notice it even contained legislation Obama himself had threatened to veto, yet he still signed it. The Hate Crimes law was more important than the veto. Now, all you have to do is ask yourself why? Could it be falling polls? Loss of approval? Securing the votes of certain groups for upcoming elections?

Keep in mind in particular, the current state of affairs on talk radio, Fox News, and Internet Neutraility, and Obama's obvious desire to stifle dissenting speech.

And, anyone that has even somewhat followed current events would know, if the repubs had voted against this because of the Hate Crimes legislation, that would have fallen off the radar, and the media would have screamed how the repubs "refuse to fund and support our troops!"

It is all so convenient how that worked, isn't it?

The OP is overly dramatic and frankly, mistaken. It's almost like they're complaining because if a murder is going to take place, the murderer should be able to say anything they want without having to be concerned about being charged with a "hate crime" on TOP of being charged for murder.

That's... crazy. To put your mind at ease, no one is making a law preventing his freedom of speech. He can say whatever he wants. But if he goes on to hurt or kill his victim, then he will be charged for his motivation.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Good, Now how about extending that to whites?

It already covers race. If someone hurts or kills you because of your race, it's a hate crime.

Originally posted by jdl79
The second what someone says can be considered a crime of any sort, you no longer have freedom of speech.

You're confusing "hate speech" with "hate crime". Speech is not being considered a crime.

Hate Crime

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.

Other frequently reported bias motivations were anti-white, anti-Jewish, anti-gay, anti-Muslim, and anti-Hispanic.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Why would this legislation let murderers who kill straights get away with it? That makes no sense.

No, it doesn't make sense and it's not AT ALL what this legislation is about. It's just something for people to complain about.

This is actually a good thing. It's one more step in giving gay people equal rights. I have mixed feelings about hate crime legislation, but seeing how it exists, and race, religion, age, gender are already legally covered, gay people, who ARE victims of hate crimes, should be covered as well.

Originally posted by Libertygal
This reaches into peoples' heads, and makes it literally illegal to profess, if you are a Christian, that the Bible says one thing or another about gay people.

THAT IS NOT TRUE! This is not about speech! Oh, my GOD! READ, people.

All this is doing is adding "GAY" to the already existing hate crime legislation. If you don't know what that means, then read up on it! Speech is NOT being infringed upon in any way.

By the way, this is another campaign Promise that Obama has kept.

Promise # 290:
Push for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors

[edit on 29-10-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]