New FDR Decode

reply to post by Lillydale


Many of their false allegations have already been mentioned in this very thread. They have parts of their videos that concern the FDR. They use the badly interpreted data decode, the original one, with poor math and illogical assumptions...all to make a presentation that is loaded with inaccuracy.

I really believe that Rob Balsamo willingly lies. Motive seems to be profit-driven (or ego??) Because, there seems to be only ONE other explanation for his behavior, and that would be that he is genuinely delusional.

I am not able to be certain, though, since I have no training in psychology, medicine, or any other discipline necessary to understand this behavior exhibited by Balsamo.

Other casual glimpses into his mind, via other behavioral traits, seem to indicate (to this medical layperson) a tendency to paranoia too. And, immaturity (they may be linked, not sure...)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But, as to the videos not being TECHNICALLY CORRECT, per your question, the answer to that is:

For those who have not seen them, in order to and comment on directly and specifically, it is impossible to discuss the aspects that are troubling to those of us who actually understand aviation, airplanes, and how to fly.

So there is just no way to adequately cover their shortcomings, especially not here in the thread, at any rate.





[edit on 18 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Lillydale
I have not watched any P4T videos. Can you explain what it is that is factually incorrect about them?

Why don't you watch them? Then you can use your own head to determine veracity rather than rely on someone else.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Many of their false allegations have already been mentioned in this very thread. They have parts of their videos that concern the FDR. They use the badly interpreted data decode, the original one, with poor math and illogical assumptions...all to make a presentation that is loaded with inaccuracy.

Can you share a link?

I really believe that Rob Balsamo willingly lies. Motive seems to be profit-driven (or ego??) Because, there seems to be only ONE other explanation for his behavior, and that would be that he is genuinely delusional.

It is nice to tell me what your opinion is with no supporting facts and all but I am not really interesting in just simply what you think. I have no idea why I should care what it is you think since I know nothing of you. All you said is that you can only think of one reason for what you think is certain behavior and so you think he lies.

I was looking more for facts that prove he lies, not just a rant.

I am not able to be certain, though, since I have no training in psychology, medicine, or any other discipline necessary to understand this behavior exhibited by Balsamo.

So you are just filling a post with empty derision?

Other casual glimpses into his mind, via other behavioral traits, seem to indicate (to this medical layperson) a tendency to paranoia too. And, immaturity (they may be linked, not sure...)

Cool. So I asked what it is that was incorrect or a lie and all I get is a personal attack because you did not read the post you replied to and then this lot of personal feelings about someone with nothing behind it.

Again, I asked about what in the videos is a lie or incorrect. Your Dr. Phil impression is not as entertaining as it should be for its complete lack of actual information.

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Lillydale
I have not watched any P4T videos. Can you explain what it is that is factually incorrect about them?

Why don't you watch them? Then you can use your own head to determine veracity rather than rely on someone else.

Because I read somewhere recently that they were full of lies. If that is true, then the lies they are full of should be pretty easy to both sum up and correct. Now if what I heard was true, then why waste my time watching videos when I can just read a list of the lies in them and the truths that go along. Are you not interested in the truth behind 9/11? Are you secretly just trying to get people to watch P4T videos? You claimed they were full of lies. I just thought you could run down a few real quick and teach me the real truth of 9/11 but if you would rather I watch propaganda and just buy into it then I am not sure what your real intentions are.

It is simple. How long does it take to watch a bunch of videos?

How long would it take to list some of the lies of the videos and the truths that go with them?

Why would you rather I waste my time giving them an audience when you can just share the truth with me and convert yet another ignorant lost soul?

I am really sorry. It seems lately that OSers have developed this bad habit of denouncing things as rubbish but then getting very unhappy when asked to clarify the truth about said rubbish.

Originally posted by Lillydale

I am really sorry. It seems lately that OSers have developed this bad habit of denouncing things as rubbish but then getting very unhappy when asked to clarify the truth about said rubbish.

I'm sorry you don't feel you have the ability to view these videos and make up your own mind about their content and what they claim. The fact that you have to rely on others to explain things to you is not a very good place to be in, especially when you hang around an online forum such as ATS. Doesn't do much for your credibility.

It does make it a bit easier to understand why you post the posts you post, though. Someone who cannot make their own mind about something and must rely on others to explain things are ripe fools for PfT and similar organizations.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Did you read what I replied to? I was replying directly to the statement that the videos they offer are NOT TECHNICALLY CORRECT. If a group calling themselves X4T is putting out videos with false information, then I am a little curious as to what that false information would be.

What is so hard for you to understand?

Why do I need to see them before I can ask someone to clarify what it is they claim is incorrect about them? If anything, it would save me the trouble of bothering to watch them, right?

To save you the trouble of watching any PfT videos, and
to spare you the expense of paying for any of them, here
is a technical review of one PfT video that has been of
some relevance to this thread:
www.ccs.neu.edu...

Rob Balsamo, posting in this thread as a sock puppet,
quoted himself in the third person as saying he agreed
with the main premise of that review: that there exist
flight paths whose g-loads are well within the capability
of a 757.

That means the primary claim of the video reviewed, as
quoted at the beginning of the review, is false. Rob
attempted to deny that, using the same bait-and-switch
explained in the review: After claiming that "g-loads
required to pull out of a dive from the top of the VDOT
antenna are impossible for a 757", Rob switched to
saying his own favorite flight path was impossible.
Duh.

In this thread, Rob continued to defend his own favorite
flight path (as presented in the video) on the grounds
that it was implied by "the data", which brings Rob's
interpretation of the data into question. When the
video was made, the FDR data available to Rob ended at
least 4 seconds before impact with the Pentagon. Most
investigators understood that, for reasons explained
in the review. Not Rob. Rob denied that any seconds
were missing, and based his own favorite flight path on
his belief that the FDR data continued right up to the
Pentagon.

Thanks to Warren Stutt's recovery of the missing seconds,
there is no longer any doubt whatsoever: Rob's favorite
flight path is not consistent with the FDR data.
Hence the PfT part of the reviewed video is completely
worthless, and there is really no way to argue otherwise.

Rob has attempted to distract us from the technical errors
of his past videos by introducing new distractions, such
as his flight deck door fail. Although Rob is apparently
no longer with us here at ATS, some continue to carry his
water.

Will

Originally posted by trebor451
I'm sorry you don't feel you have the ability to view these videos and make up your own mind about their content and what they claim. The fact that you have to rely on others to explain things to you is not a very good place to be in, especially when you hang around an online forum such as ATS. Doesn't do much for your credibility.

I did not know that you had to be a walking encyclopedia to post here. The simple fact is that I do not have all of the information available. I can watch the videos and then research the entire things and come to my own conclusions but since you already stated that they are full of bunk, I thought that the fastest path to the truth would be to see this bunk. Obviously you would not say that unless you had the real info that proves it wrong, right? Why make me watch a video and then look for this info myself. What if I am just too inept to find it. Do you want me to have the truth or not?

It does make it a bit easier to understand why you post the posts you post, though. Someone who cannot make their own mind about something and must rely on others to explain things are ripe fools for PfT and similar organizations.

I can make up my own mind just fine. This little paragraph appears to be an attempt at an insult but since my posts do not reflect the mind of someone who cannot think for themselves, unless you can prove otherwise, you are just talking out of your ass.

I have no problem thinking for myself and doing my own research.

You made the claim that these movies were full of lies. Why make such a claim if asking you to back it up is going to ruffle your feathers so much?

What if I go watch every video and do my own research and find them to be true? Then if I asked you to correct me by pointing out what was a lie, would you still get upset and insult me instead of just inform me?

I guess if you have no idea why you say they are lies then I can understand. I thought maybe you said it because it was true but this many posts, by two of you, and still nothing. I guess you were just saying things and hoping people would just take your word for it.

I see you really hate it when people ask you to back up your claims. I guess if you want to be able to just say anything you want without being challenged as to the facts then you should start a blog.

Originally posted by cesura
To save you the trouble of watching any PfT videos, and
to spare you the expense of paying for any of them, here
is a technical review of one PfT video that has been of
some relevance to this thread:
www.ccs.neu.edu...

Wait a minute here! I would have to buy them and trebor and ww think it would be better if I sent P4T money to hear what they call lies than just show me what are lies? How does that make any sense?

Rob Balsamo, posting in this thread as a sock puppet,
quoted himself in the third person as saying he agreed
with the main premise of that review: that there exist
flight paths whose g-loads are well within the capability
of a 757.

That means the primary claim of the video reviewed, as
quoted at the beginning of the review, is false. Rob
attempted to deny that, using the same bait-and-switch
explained in the review: After claiming that "g-loads
required to pull out of a dive from the top of the VDOT
antenna are impossible for a 757", Rob switched to
saying his own favorite flight path was impossible.
Duh.

In this thread, Rob continued to defend his own favorite
flight path (as presented in the video) on the grounds
that it was implied by "the data", which brings Rob's
interpretation of the data into question. When the
video was made, the FDR data available to Rob ended at
least 4 seconds before impact with the Pentagon. Most
investigators understood that, for reasons explained
in the review. Not Rob. Rob denied that any seconds
were missing, and based his own favorite flight path on
his belief that the FDR data continued right up to the
Pentagon.

Thanks to Warren Stutt's recovery of the missing seconds,
there is no longer any doubt whatsoever: Rob's favorite
flight path is not consistent with the FDR data.
Hence the PfT part of the reviewed video is completely
worthless, and there is really no way to argue otherwise.

Rob has attempted to distract us from the technical errors
of his past videos by introducing new distractions, such
as his flight deck door fail. Although Rob is apparently
no longer with us here at ATS, some continue to carry his
water.

Will

Thank you. It did not seem so hard for you to do this. Maybe you can explain to the others how to just supply supporting information to your claims.

reply to post by Lillydale


Waiting for you to review the link that cesura has conveniently and graciously provided.

Now, you can see ONE side, and whenever you happen to later see the video in question, you will be better armed with knowledge so as not to be taken in by their buffoonery, bloviation and bluster. (I know redundant...what can I say, 'bloviate' is a good description!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lilly, I really wish you'd actually read my posts. Look for the one, up above, where I typed the words "Caveat Emptor".

Wait a minute here! I would have to buy them and trebor and ww think it would be better if I sent P4T money to hear what they call lies than just show me what are lies? How does that make any sense?

Oh, and just an aside again, since you seem to think I was bashing Balsamo unnecessarily...you should see the antics he actually employs on his site, where he's boss. Really. Unilaterally changing people's screennames, banning people willy-nilly for no other reason than not agreeing with him...etc. He decided, after banning trebor over there, to alter the screenname to "trebortroll". Is that the action of a person who is a mature, sane and fully functioning adult???

[edit on 18 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Waiting for you to review the link that cesura has conveniently and graciously provided.

Did you want me to look at it or just open and close it because it has been a whole 2 minutes.

Now, you can see ONE side, and whenever you happen to later see the video in question, you will be better armed with knowledge so as not to be taken in by their buffoonery, bloviation and bluster. (I know redundant...what can I say, 'bloviate' is a good description!)

That would kind of be the point. I would rather be armed with all the information available but I will not be spending any money on any 9/11 video any times soon.

You can actually give me a chance to look it over now but I am not sure what you are expecting. I think you want me to argue the points but I am sorry to disappoint you.

p.s. bloviating is not a good description because it is not a good word. When someone wants to use their television show to try and present a more educated persona by adding 50 cent words to the nations vocabulary...they should not use the same word every day for 2 years. It makes it sound like someone has a word of the day calendar that had the same word printed on it every day and the genius bought the exact same calendar the next year. The word has lost all real meaning and now just reminds me of ignorant opinion men who know 3 big words and use them over and over and over. - Just my opinion, do not debate it I know it is just mine.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Oh, and just an aside again, since you seem to think I was bashing Balsamo unnecessarily...

Huh? What? -rubbing my eyes- um.... uh.... what?

you should see the antics he actually employs on his site, where he's boss. Really. Unilaterally changing people's screennames, banning people willy-nilly for no other reason than not agreeing with him...etc. He decided, after banning trebor over there, to alter the screenname to "trebortroll". Is that the action of a person who is a mature, sane and fully functioning adult???

I am not sure. It does not sound like it. You know what else does not seem like the action of a person who is a mature, sane, and fully functioning adult? Delusional posts on a repeated basis. Is this the second or third time today I have had to ask what you are taking when you respond to my posts.

Read slowly now - when did I accuse you of unnecessarily bashing Balsamo? When did I make any such statement? I am not sure if you are responding to other people and just using my SN to do it with or if you are suffering from something but you really need to stop attributing things to me falsely. Now if you can back up your claim, that would be great.

Even better, would be if you could set an example for the OSers around here and apologize for being so wrong about me, again.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Wait a minute here! I would have to buy them and trebor and ww think it would be better if I sent P4T money to hear what they call lies than just show me what are lies? How does that make any sense?

A fool and his money are soon parted, so I would fully expect you to buy them.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
He decided, after banning trebor over there, to alter the screenname to "trebortroll". Is that the action of a person who is a mature, sane and fully functioning adult???

Did he really? lol

The things that amuse some people really are windows into not only their soul, but their intellect and character, as well.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by trebor451]

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Lillydale
I have not watched any P4T videos. Can you explain what it is that is factually incorrect about them?

Why don't you watch them? Then you can use your own head to determine veracity rather than rely on someone else.

Because I read somewhere recently that they were full of lies. If that is true, then the lies they are full of should be pretty easy to both sum up and correct. Now if what I heard was true, then why waste my time watching videos when I can just read a list of the lies in them and the truths that go along. Are you not interested in the truth behind 9/11? Are you secretly just trying to get people to watch P4T videos? You claimed they were full of lies. I just thought you could run down a few real quick and teach me the real truth of 9/11 but if you would rather I watch propaganda and just buy into it then I am not sure what your real intentions are.

It is simple. How long does it take to watch a bunch of videos?

How long would it take to list some of the lies of the videos and the truths that go with them?

Why would you rather I waste my time giving them an audience when you can just share the truth with me and convert yet another ignorant lost soul?

I am really sorry. It seems lately that OSers have developed this bad habit of denouncing things as rubbish but then getting very unhappy when asked to clarify the truth about said rubbish.

LMAO.

"How long does it take [YOU, trebor] to watch a bunch of videos?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list some of the lies ...?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list the [corrections] ...?"

Perhaps if you decide to get off your duff & put in a little effort of your own, then you wouldn't be utterly dependent on others to analyze, dissect & spoon feed you your conclusions. You might find that you actually like thinking for yourself.

"Why would you rather I waste my time ..."

Or you could go back to doing your nails...
What was I thinking?

LMAO.


Tomk

[edit on 18-12-2009 by thomk]

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Lillydale
Wait a minute here! I would have to buy them and trebor and ww think it would be better if I sent P4T money to hear what they call lies than just show me what are lies? How does that make any sense?

A fool and his money are soon parted, so I would fully expect you to buy them.

Interesting conclusion seeing as how it is about to be 2010 and I have yet to spend a dime on any 9/11 information in any form whatsoever. So did your post have anything to add or are you just calling me a fool based on nothing saying I will do something there is no way I will be doing?

Originally posted by thomk
LMAO.

"How long does it take [YOU, trebor] to watch a bunch of videos?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list some of the lies ...?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list the [corrections] ...?"

Yes. Why don't you spend your money to buy videos. You tell me what it is you think is wrong with them

Perhaps if you decide to get off your duff & put in a little effort of your own, then you wouldn't be utterly dependent on others to analyze, dissect & spoon feed you your conclusions. You might find that you actually like thinking for yourself.

"Why would you rather I waste my time ..."

Or you could go back to doing your nails...
What was I thinking?

LMAO.


Tomk

[edit on 18-12-2009 by thomk]

If you were not so busy being a sexist ass, you might realize something. I do not need anyone to come up with my conclusions. I have no problem coming to them all by myself. My research leads to my conclusions. You seem to think you have different conclusions. This must mean you found something different in your research. I asked you to go ahead and show us what you had but apparently all you have is snide remarks about how a fool and his money are soon parted - after establishing you have these costly videos and I do not, so who is the fool? and then some lame joke about doing nails.

I guess I will save my energy for someone that actually has some real information to impart and not ignorant insults.

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Sat Dec 19 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by weedwhacker
He decided, after banning trebor over there, to alter the screenname to "trebortroll". Is that the action of a person who is a mature, sane and fully functioning adult???

Did he really? lol

The things that amuse some people really are windows into not only their soul, but their intellect and character, as well.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by trebor451]

It is cute watching you two girls gossip like this.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by thomk
LMAO.

"How long does it take [YOU, trebor] to watch a bunch of videos?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list some of the lies ...?"

"How long would it take [YOU, trebor] to list the [corrections] ...?"

Yes. Why don't you spend your money to buy videos. You tell me what it is you think is wrong with them

Perhaps if you decide to get off your duff & put in a little effort of your own, then you wouldn't be utterly dependent on others to analyze, dissect & spoon feed you your conclusions. You might find that you actually like thinking for yourself.

"Why would you rather I waste my time ..."

Or you could go back to doing your nails...
What was I thinking?

LMAO.


Tomk

[edit on 18-12-2009 by thomk]

If you were not so busy being a sexist ass,

I've been fighting sexism for longer (~40 years) than you've likely been alive. And I've taken enough punishment in that particular war that I've EARNED the right to call out both men & women for being lazy.

Originally posted by Lillydale
you might realize something. I do not need anyone to come up with my conclusions. I have no problem coming to them all by myself.

Well, excuuuuuuse me.

I seem to have mistaken you for that other person who posts under the name Lillydale.

The one that was asking Trebor to do all her homework for her, and then spoon feed her the answers.

Originally posted by Lillydale
My research leads to my conclusions.

Your "research" seems to be "you watch the videos, you list the mistakes, you list the corrections and then slip me the answers." All justified (in your own words) by "why should I waste MY time?"

In other words, you're lazy, you're presumptuous, and you don't know the proper meaning of the word "research".

Oh yeah. I almost forgot, you're a Drama Queen, too.

Originally posted by Lillydale
You seem to think you have different conclusions. This must mean you found something different in your research. I asked you to go ahead and show us what you had

Ahhhh, any particular topic...?

I've stated 50 different conclusions on the various topics discussed here. Why don't you try stating your first.

Originally posted by Lillydale
but apparently all you have is snide remarks about how a fool and his money are soon parted

You're hearing voices in your own head. I never said a word about that.

Originally posted by Lillydale
after establishing you have these costly videos and I do not, so who is the fool?

The voices again.

Originally posted by Lillydale
and then some lame joke about doing nails.

I thought it was pithy. It seems to have you pithed off.

Originally posted by Lillydale
I guess I will save my energy for someone that actually has some real information to impart and not ignorant insults.

Or for the next guy who'll do your homework for you...

Good luck with THAT strategy.


Tom

[edit on 19-12-2009 by thomk]

GENTLE REMINDER:

Please discuss the topic and not each other!!!!
Any inappropriate comments, insults, topic derailment, or trolling

I'd advise member to check out the link above, in case they're not sure what the standard for posting should be.

Thanks