Pakistan getting paid to (kill its own people)

Originally posted by December_Rain

I spoke in context of this sentence. They will not fight Taliban, it's an eyewash.

Originally posted by oozyism
FAIL
Pakistan's military rejects US aid bill

They should rephrase it: Pakistan's military rejects US bribery

EPIC FAIL!



They have to fight anyway.


Pakistan bombs Taliban targets in Waziristan

October 8 2009 03:00 | Last updated: October 8 2009 03:00

Pakistan has started bombing Taliban targets in the north-western region of Waziristan as its army prepares for a ground operation in the lawless tribal area.

"We have sealed the area and are involved in aerial targeting [of Taliban locations]," Major General Athar Abbas, the top Pakistani military spokesman, told the Financial Times.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Without American bribery

I'm quiet sure America will still give them that money? I don't know why but it just seems that way to me...

This means it was a ploy because the majority of Pakistanis believe the biggest threat to their country if the US.

reply to post by oozyism


This is why I enjoy reading your posts. I would say debate you but it's more of a bloodbath. Ooz you can't really be that delusional?

Are you?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

This is why I enjoy reading your posts. I would say debate you but it's more of a bloodbath. Ooz you can't really be that delusional?

Are you?

Common man stop it with the personal attacks.... Contribute something instead of picking a needle out of a haystack to prove your arguments. The first time we encounter was just that until I forced you to actually reply properly instead of a one liner.

If you want to go that road, I can also...

Originally posted by oozyism
This means it was a ploy because the majority of Pakistanis believe the biggest threat to their country if the US.

Well they are in a fight anyway. Whether with American money or not. Because they have refused to accept the American offer now they are going to have to fight the Taliban with less. It was their boneheadedness that will cost them more lives as they now fight the Taliban not because of the US but becuase the Taliban are a real threat within their own borders.

They gambled and lost.

Think about it.
Actually this makes your whole thread now
Moot and Pakistan is still fighting them anyway.




[edit on 8-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69

Well they are in a fight anyway. Whether with American money or not. Becuase the have refused to except the American offer now they are going to have to fight the Taliban with less. It was their boneheadedness that will cost them more lives as they now fight the Taliban not because of the US but becuase the Taliban are a real threat within their own borders.

They gambled and lost.

Think about it.
Actually this makes your whole thread now
MUTE and Pakistan is still fighting them anyway.

If you invade a country you don't expect the area to be destabilized?

Let's start this discussion and make it more productive.

Keep going now.

Originally posted by oozyism
If you invade a country you don't expect the area to be destabilized?

Let's start this discussion and make it more productive.

Keep going now.

OK when have we invaded Pakistan?
Let's start with that ok?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Without American bribery

I'm quiet sure America will still give them that money? I don't know why but it just seems that way to me...

This means it was a ploy because the majority of Pakistanis believe the biggest threat to their country if the US.

If the us? I think you meant is the us.

And no they don't and if you are referring to this piece of propaganda

A survey commissioned by Al Jazeera in Pakistan has revealed a widespread disenchantment with the United States for interfering with what most people consider internal Pakistani affairs.

from aljazeera. at least I assume that is where you get your"infromation" from.


Here is a fact to counter what I think is propaganda that you posted.

Lahore, May 26 (ANI): Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said that extremism poses the biggest threat to Pakistan.

And look I can provide links to my source. Link to news

Or here is another poll for ya.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9bfd35dacfa5.jpg[/atsimg]

And that can be found at.
Link

reply to post by oozyism

If you invade a country you don't expect the area to be destabilized?

Let's start this discussion and make it more productive.

Keep going now.

Ahh, Dude, I'm confused... I'm trying to follow here, but you're making it difficult. Did you just drop the Pakistan debate and move onto Afghanistan?

[edit on 7-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by SLAYER69



OK when have we invaded Pakistan?
Let's start with that ok?

No no, my point, don't twist and turn, I was making a point.

If Canada was invaded? by China? What would happen if America didn't help Canada? Wouldn't the Americans feel as if the American government is on the Chinese side?

reply to post by LadySkadi

I assure you, you aren't half as confused as Oooozy.

Yeah. He flipped. For the sole purpose of being argumentative.

Note that no information, no line of thought, no philosophical reasoning - no nothing.

The thread is now moot as payment will not be accepted.

How about we put this one to bed.

Originally posted by oozyism
No no, my point, don't twist and turn, I was making a point.

If Canada was invaded? by China? What would happen if America didn't help Canada? Wouldn't the Americans feel as if the American government is on the Chinese side?

See here is the problem with your analogy ooz...

In your scenario 60% or more of Canada wanted the Taliban/Canadian Government gone. China invades. So they tuck tail and ran over to the US as a safe haven. Where they have taken over a large location and plan their attacks on Canada from. Now the US government has to fight them on US soil. Whether China pays them to or not.

Originally posted by oozyism

FAIL
Pakistan's military rejects US aid bill

They should rephrase it: Pakistan's military rejects US bribery

OK, Oh wise one (or wise SOMETHING), I read your link, and it specifically stated that the terrorists concerned ARE crossing the border to fight in Afghanistan.

Kinda scuttles your argument.

It also explained how the military calls the shots there. That's nothing new in Pakistan.

What you call bribery, I'd call prudence. Why is it you think my money should go to support people who are fighting against my people? I mean, if I give my kid an allowance, and he tells me to go to hell and takes a shot at me, I think his allowance for the next week would be in jeopardy.

No, when I GIVE folks money, I expect they'd be willing to help me out a bit if I ask it.

Otherwise, the money goes to others of a more cooperative nature.

Or I save it up until I have enough put back to roll in and pummel the living daylights out of the ingrates. I mean, if they can't handle MY request, why is it I should cave in to theirs?

That ain't bribery, bub. Neither is the financial aid contingent on Pakistan "killing their own people" as you stated in the OP. At least not according to your supporting article. You've yet to provide any evidence for THAT rather bold statement.

But wait! you used the word FAIL against me! Oh no!

Since you could make a bold pronouncement such as that, would you mind using your infinite brain power to perhaps make a tiny commentary explaining HOW this article is supposed to support your premise?

I mean, in my intellectual poverty, I've missed it. You'll have to draw a picture for my ignorant, brainless self.

I'm STILL waiting for you to offer ANY support for ANY of your outrageous statements.

Please don't wait for me to start snoring from boredom before you strike with your lightning wit.

reply to post by SLAYER69

See here is the problem with your analogy ooz...

In your scenario 60% or more of Canada wanted the Taliban/Canadian Government gone. China invades. So they tuck tail and ran over to the US as a safe haven. Where they have taken over a large location and plan their attacks on Canada from. Now the US government has to fight them on US soil. Whether China pays them to or not.

NONO. That is one perspective, here is another..

9/11 occurs in China. China investigates and tries to bring the purportraters to justice, they blame it on Osama who happens to be in Canada, Osama denies the any responsibilities. Canadian government tries to be fair asks China to provide evidence, if found guilty he will be handed over. China rejects the offer and decides to invade Canada to kill Osama and his group. In result thousands of Afghani lives were taken, and it is something avoidable, that is the soul reason why I and many of my kind feel sad and guilty.

wow they came up as a great little story

reply to post by oozyism

The US invaded the country in 2001 in order to capture or kill bin Laden, and deny al-Qaeda sanctuary. Eight years later, that mission remains unaccomplished.

Some analysts believe that not only has Washington failed to curb al-Qaeda's influence, but the presence of US troops in Afghanistan has simply served to export al-Qaeda ideology to other groups – including the Pakistan Taliban.

"We have not only been unable to defeat al-Qaeda ... [but] we have taken them from Afghanistan to the FATA area [Pakistan's northern tribal areas) where their key leadership resides and now have a serious role in Afghanistan," says Hekmat Karzai, a regional security analyst.

let's agree that the occupation was responsible for the destabilization, keep it up.

reply to post by oozyism

Canadian government tries to be fair asks China to provide evidence, if found guilty he will be handed over. China rejects the offer and decides to invade Canada to kill Osama and his group. In result thousands of Afghani lives were taken, and it is something avoidable, that is the soul reason why I and many of my kind feel sad and guilty.

Taliban are responsible for those lives due to the decision they made.

They chose to protect one man or organization rather than the lives of the people they were supposedly taking care of.

Amazing that the intel you say the Taliban don't have was able to come up that Osama wasn't responsible?

Guess they just flat out asked him and he said NO.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by December_Rain

 

OK so just exactly who have they been fighting for the past 5 months in SWAT?
Senior Fazlullah aide killed in Swat

MINGORA: Security forces killed a senior aide to Swat Taliban leader Fazlullah on Wednesday as troops killed five Taliban in the valley in the ongoing military offensive in the valley, said military officials.

Pakistan: Troops kill 9 militants in Swat

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani security forces killed nine militants, including two commanders, in weekend battles in the northwestern Swat Valley, the military said Sunday.

Pakistan has largely beaten back a Taliban insurgency in Swat in recent months and intelligence officials say the country is preparing a major offensive against al-Qaida and Taliban in their stronghold in South Waziristan.

Long war against Pakistan Taliban

Pakistan's security forces appear to have achieved their main objective in Swat with the capture of its administrative seat of Mingora.

That region and the rest of the Malakand division now seem to be under the control of the Pakistan army.

Some fighting is still going on in the mountainous rural areas - especially the Peochar valley, the militants' main stronghold.

Not sure if you understand properly but when the "intense fighting" was going on Pakistan Millitary barred all media sources from Swat Region and the only news that came through was from them.

The military claims to have killed 1,000 militants, a figure that is difficult to verify since journalists and independent observers are barred from the area. There is widespread skepticism that the figure is not only exaggerated but that most of the casualties may be civilians.

Source: canada.mediamonitors.net...
blog.taragana.com...
www.thaindian.com...

You will find many more news articles stating the same thing that all news was filtered through pakistan millitary as the whole area was closed and noone knows what happened in there.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by December_Rain]

reply to post by oozyism


What you fail to understand, is that the Taliban was the government of Afghanistan. It wasn't a free Afghani government harboring UBL. The government itself- which wasn't even recognized by the UN- was the problem.

Originally posted by oozyism

This means it was a ploy because the majority of Pakistanis believe the biggest threat to their country if the US.

I hope this doesn't mean I have to cancel my friendship with Mr. Siddiqui. He's really a nice guy, and even though he's a Pakistani and I'm an evil American, we still have a lot of enjoyable and productive discussions.

He doesn't SEEM to hold the things I've done against me. He SEEMS to be rather grateful, as a matter of fact. He got a real kick out of that picture I posted of myself in mufti on another thread.

We SEEM to get along pretty well, for sworn enemies. Of course, he laughs at the way I pronounce Urdu. Could be some harbored resentment there.

Originally posted by oozyism

NONO. That is one perspective, here is another..

9/11 occurs in China. China investigates and tries to bring the purportraters to justice, they blame it on Osama who happens to be in Canada, Osama denies the any responsibilities. Canadian government tries to be fair asks China to provide evidence, if found guilty he will be handed over. China rejects the offer and decides to invade Canada to kill Osama and his group. In result thousands of Afghani lives were taken, and it is something avoidable, that is the soul reason why I and many of my kind feel sad and guilty.

wow they came up as a great little story

Yes, it WAS something avoidable. As I stated previously, all the Taliban had to do was give up a murderer.

Why does that make you, and many of "your kind" feel guilty? Could it be because you refused to give up a murderer to justice, and consequently got ran across the border into Pakistan, thus leaving your countrymen a bit freer to breathe?

Or is the guilt associated with all the civilian deaths perpetrated by the Taliban?

Yeah, pursuant to your analogy, if some, I don't know, let's say German nuked Shanghai, then ran to Canada to hide, and Canada refused to give him up to the Chinese for justice, and China was forced to go to Canada to get him, and, while they were there decided to just go ahead and clean up the corrupt Canadian government that harbored him, I'd find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to set up a lawn chair at the border to cheer the Chinese on.

Another thing - it wouldn't be a wise move for the supporters of that German murderer to try crossing the border to invade MY country and escape justice.

Well, it wouldn't be wise of them to pass by my lawn chair, anyhow.

Originally posted by nenothtu


I hope this doesn't mean I have to cancel my friendship with Mr. Siddiqui. He's really a nice guy, and even though he's a Pakistani and I'm an evil American, we still have a lot of enjoyable and productive discussions.

He doesn't SEEM to hold the things I've done against me. He SEEMS to be rather grateful, as a matter of fact. He got a real kick out of that picture I posted of myself in mufti on another thread.

We SEEM to get along pretty well, for sworn enemies. Of course, he laughs at the way I pronounce Urdu. Could be some harbored resentment there.

ahh nice story

Yes, it WAS something avoidable. As I stated previously, all the Taliban had to do was give up a murderer.

'Innocent until proven guilty', everyone has that right, Taliban asked for evidence.

Why does that make you, and many of "your kind" feel guilty? Could it be because you refused to give up a murderer to justice, and consequently got ran across the border into Pakistan, thus leaving your countrymen a bit freer to breathe?

No because I refuse to take the war pretext bullsh1t in, it is hard for me to swallow. We all know the Iraq war pretext was bullsh1t, as if you care.

You don't kill thousands of others to bring a murderer to justice, that is just beyond ignorance. Especially when Taliban stated they would hand him over if evidence was provided.

Or is the guilt associated with all the civilian deaths perpetrated by the Taliban?

No by the civilian deaths perpetrated by all sides.

Yeah, pursuant to your analogy, if some, I don't know, let's say German nuked Shanghai, then ran to Canada to hide, and Canada refused to give him up to the Chinese for justice, and China was forced to go to Canada to get him, and, while they were there decided to just go ahead and clean up the corrupt Canadian government that harbored him, I'd find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to set up a lawn chair at the border to cheer the Chinese on.

Not when you realize it was all bullsh1t, just like the Iraq war pretext. If you believe it hard enough it would come true, at least in your head.

Another thing - it wouldn't be a wise move for the supporters of that German murderer to try crossing the border to invade MY country and escape justice.

Those people are crossing the border to fight because they believe so many died on behalf of bullsh1t. No justice no peace.

Well, it wouldn't be wise of them to pass by my lawn chair, anyhow.

It wouldn't be wise for America to come to NZ just to bring a murderer to justice and in consequence thousands of others die. I would fight for justice. Especially if the NZ government stated they would hand him over if the US brought evidence.

Get real

[edit on 8-10-2009 by oozyism]