Evidence NASA may be looking for Nibiru

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
ATS which planet is this???????????????????save it and enlarge it. IT HAS A BIG HOLE IN TOP OF IT AND ITS A PLANET????????????GOING TOWARDS THE SUN SOMEONE SMART LET ME KNOW.


[edit on 9/1/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply to post by Aggie Man


Definitions don't often include the connotations of words. My impression is that the world "admit" connotes a previous denial. Going strictly by the definition "admits the possibility" is redundant. "afforded possibility of the possibility".

The article only says that Proxima is our closet neighbor. It doesn't say what kind of star it is.

(I know, not really important. But I just couldn't let it go.)

OK, it took me some time to put this together but here goes.

Thank you Soylent Green for making me dig even deeper. It was the push I needed.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
I don't think NASA specifically looking for a specific object (i.e., Nibiru). I think they see the WISE as a funded way to look for a certain class of asteroids that may be hard to detect -- especially since they see shortcomings in they're current funding for the search for killer asteroids.

They know the program funding has shortcomings, and the WISE spacecraft will help ease those shortcomings by searching for a whole class of objects that can't easily be seen using conventional means -- thus easing the burden on the $800,000,000 killer asteroid program.

It seems pretty straightforward (and non-conspiratorial) to me.

Except for the fact that WISE (or NEOWISE as the National Academy of Sciences calls it) will NOT contribute one asteroid to the program. Stay with me here as I show you…

The Mandate for the Near-Earth Object (NEO) program:

Near-Earth Object Surveys and Hazard Mitigation Strategies: Interim Report

The United States is currently the only country with an active, government-sponsored effort to detect and track potentially hazardous near-Earth objects (NEOs).

Congress has more recently mandated that by 2020 NASA should detect and track 90 percent of NEOs that are 140 meters (0.14 kilometers) in diameter or larger, a category of objects that is generally recognized to represent a very significant threat to life on earth. Achieving this goal may require the building of one or more additional observatories, possibly including a space-based observatory.

They certainly did explore Space-based options and decided that the WISE program could be “enhanced” to contribute to the mandate:

NASA has funded an enhancement to the baseline WISE mission, called NEOWISE, to facilitate solar system science. NEOWISE is expected to discover hundreds of new NEOs with sizes as small as ~100 meters. The advantage of an infrared-selected sample is that it is inherently less biased against discovery of low-albedo objects than are optical surveys. However, NEOWISE is not a stand-alone NEO survey and requires coordination with other surveys to make full use of its data.

Sounds good and it was a good way to transfer funding from the already vastly under-funded NEO program to WISE but what they actually built does not support NEO objectives by a factor of 3,000%:

WISE Mapping the Infrared Sky Fact Sheet

WISE Mapping the Infrared Sky
WISE will:
■ Find the most luminous galaxies in the Universe.
■ Find the closest stars to the Sun.
■ Detect most Main Belt asteroids larger than 3 km (3,000 meters).
■ Enable a wide variety of studies ranging from
the evolution of planetary debris discs to the history
of star formation in normal galaxies.
■ Provide an important source catalog for JWST.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Obviously they think there is a good chance these "dark asteroids" may pose a threat, hence the use of WISE. However, I don't think they KNOW a specific body object (such as Nibiru, as you say) is out there.

...and I don't think that just because NASA has funded the WISE project while the asteroid people say their funding is inadequate means that NASA must already know something....

What about all of the other projects that NASA is funding? Some people could argue that NO projects are a higher priority than looking for killer asteroids, so why are you picking out THIS particular project as the one that proves that NASA knows something about a specific rogue object that they are not telling us. There are many projects that are more adequately funded than the killer asteroid project.

It seems to me that the asteroid people need to state their case better so they could receive more funding from congress -- or they should have adequately stated their case for a bigger budget instead of the original $800,000,000 budget in the first place.

They transferred funding from an already vastly-underfunded program (the NEO asteroid program) which experts and Congress say “represent a very significant threat to life on earth” to a new program (the WISE program) which states as one of it’s objectives “uncover the coldest stars, called brown dwarfs, perhaps even one closer to us than our closest known neighbor, Proxima Centauri, which is 4 light-years away.” Why would they make that statement if they didn’t think that something was there? Why would they transfer the funding to WISE instead from the NEO program? Do they think that finding a brown dwarf even closer to us than our closest known neighbor is more important than finding the near earth objects (representing a very significant threat to life on earth).

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

That is not a planet. It is debris. It appears only in that image, not in the one before, nor in the one after.

It has been discussed before.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Definitions don't often include the connotations of words. My impression is that the world "admit" connotes a previous denial. Going strictly by the definition "admits the possibility" is redundant. "afforded possibility of the possibility".

The article only says that Proxima is our closet neighbor. It doesn't say what kind of star it is.

(I know, not really important. But I just couldn't let it go.)

Ok, so the word admit may seem a bit accusetory (and redundant), so I will restate: NASA is open to the possibility...

[edit on 1-9-2009 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
...all I'm saying is that NASA isn't admitting that a brown dwarf star exists within the confines of our solar system and they certainly are not admitting that one is on an orbital approach to Earth (such as the Nibiru story goes).

And that is the same stance I have. I do not believe that NASA has secret knowledge of a brown dwarf in our solar system. But they are looking for a reason. Why else mention that in the article referenced in the OP?

Yes -- they are looking because they do think it is possible that a brown dwarf could be close to the our solar system...

...however, as I said, this is something that has been discussed by NASA scientists and other astronomers for some time now, so NASA isn't "Admitting" anything. They were never "hiding" that possibility to begin with, so there is nothing to "admit".

So, they think there is a potential for a brown dwarf to exist somewhere within an 4 LY radius. That has little to do with Nibiru. There are potentially many planet-sized icy bodies in the Oort cloud. The potential for a brown dwarf existing has as much to do with Nibiru as those potential Oort cloud objects.

It's one thing to say these things may exist, but it's a totally different thing to say that they could be the mythical Nibiru.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
It's one thing to say these things may exist, but it's a totally different thing to say that they could be the mythical Nibiru.

EXACTLY! And for the record, I neither said that I believed in the Nibiru myth, nor that NASA was looking for it.

To be honest people, I don't give a rat's a$$ what name you give it. What do you have to say about my update and the seeming urgency NASA is giving this?

NASA transferred funding from an already vastly-underfunded program (the NEO asteroid program) which experts (National Academy of Sciences) and Congress say “represent a very significant threat to life on earth” to a new program (the WISE program) which states as one of it’s objectives “uncover the coldest stars, called brown dwarfs, perhaps even one closer to us than our closest known neighbor”. The WISE program doesn't even contribute to the identification of asteroids in the NEO program even though that's how NASA justified transferring funds from NEO to WISE. In fact, WISE can't identify objects small than 3,000 meters.

Why would they transfer the funding to WISE from the NEO program? Do they think that finding a brown dwarf even closer to us than our closest known neighbor is more important than finding the near earth objects (representing a very significant threat to life on earth)? Yes, they do.

[edit on 1/9/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

That is not a planet. It is debris. It appears only in that image, not in the one before, nor in the one after.

It has been discussed before.

DEBRIS FROM WHAT, ITS A SPHERE MOVING FAST LOOK AROUND IT , BUT OK THEN NO ANSWER BUT DEBRIS WITH A HOLE IN ITS CENTER NAH.
I would of expected better from you PHAGE. ALSO THE software on soho FILTERS OUT MOVING OBJECTS IT CAUGHT IT BEFORE THE FILTER.

[edit on 9/1/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

[edit on 9/1/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

WISE was not downgraded. It will be able to detect asteroids as small as 100 meters. Some of them. It will be able to detect most of the asteroids which are larger than 3 km.

It was never going to be able to find most of the small asteroids. I'm glad it will be able to find most of the large ones. I'm also glad it will be able to find some of the smaller ones.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

It's one thing to say these things may exist, but it's a totally different thing to say that they could be the mythical Nibiru.

Why?

And, why is NASA giving the urgency to WISE? WISE will not contribute one asteroid to the NEO program so why transfer (under the guise that it will contribute to NEO) funds from a program that it supposed to be identifying objects that say “represent a very significant threat to life on earth” ?

Do they think that unidentified NEOs aren't out there? No. They think it's more important right now to try to identify brown drawfs than trying to identify asteroids that could impact earth.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

SOHO does not filter moving objects. Debris comes from the satellite itself and can also be random particles in space.
SOHO debris

Please keep your expectations to yourself.


[edit on 9/1/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

WISE was not downgraded. It will be able to detect asteroids as small as 100 meters. Some of them. It will be able to detect most of the asteroids which are larger than 3 km.

It was never going to be able to find most of the small asteroids. I'm glad it will be able to find most of the large ones. I'm also glad it will be able to find some of the smaller ones.

Where did you get your data? I couldn't find it.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


From your sources.

The interim report says that WISE will

"discover hundreds of new NEOs with sizes as small as ~100 meters."

The fact sheet says

"Detect most Main Belt asteroids larger than 3 km (3,000 meters).

It will find hundreds of small ones and most of the big ones.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

SOHO does not filter moving objects. Debris comes from the satellite itself and can also be random particles in space.
SOHO debris

Please keep your expectations to yourself.


[edit on 9/1/2009 by Phage]

AS BIG AS IT IS AND YOU CAN SEE THE SPEED ITS MOVING FROM THE PLASMA AROUND IT, COOL MAN expectations kept. Also I know what it is just wanted to see who else CAN SENSE IT GOOD DAY.


[edit on 9/1/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

Well according to our current understanding of our soloar system it is well known through out the scientific community that there has to be an extra planet outside of pluto. They think this because of neptune and plutos orbits indicate that there is some unknown body heavy enough that its gravitational force is strong enough to effect these 2 planets orbits
heres a link
Is there a hidden planet?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

From your sources.

The interim report says that WISE will

"discover hundreds of new NEOs with sizes as small as ~100 meters."

The fact sheet says

"Detect most Main Belt asteroids larger than 3 km (3,000 meters).

It will find hundreds of small ones and most of the big ones.

Ah, but the point is that the NAS' interim report was to Congress and was used as the basis for the justification for reallocating funding from NEO to WISE. The only thing I can find on what they actually built is the 3 km (3,000 meter) capability. Additionally,

The survey will help search for the origins of planets, stars, and galaxies and create an infrared atlas whose legacy will endure for decades.
WISE will:
■ Find the most luminous galaxies in the Universe.
■ Find the closest stars to the Sun.
■ Detect most Main Belt asteroids larger than 3 km.
■ Enable a wide variety of studies ranging from
the evolution of planetary debris discs to the history
of star formation in normal galaxies.
■ Provide an important source catalog for JWST.

Remember, this is publicity for them and they have very capable public relations personnel on hand, if WISE was capable of identifying 0.15 km (which is the mandate in NEO) asteroids, don't you think they'd want to brag about it? Something along the lines of: Detect most asteroids larger than 0.15 km. But they didn't, did they... why not?

It is unacceptable to state as a fact that "It will be able to detect asteroids as small as 100 meters. Some of them. It will be able to detect most of the asteroids which are larger than 3 km." You don't know this and they certainly did not say this.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


I guess I don't understand what point it is that you are getting at.

Here's what I know about WISE.

- It was originally designed to look at far-off, medium-distance, and near objects in the infrared spectrum. Some of the far-off objects are infrared galaxies. Some of the medium-distance objects are other stars, dust clouds, and brown dwarfs. Some of the potential near objects are possible brown dwarfs in our solar system's neighborhood (and perhaps brown dwarfs closer than 4 LY) and solar system objects.

- It was also originally designed to look at Asteroid Belt Objects 3 km and larger.

- NASA decided to add a Near Earth Object (NEO) component to the original mission. They think can detect 400 NEOs per year, possibly as small as 150 meters in diameter for objects 0.7 AU in distance from Earth. Of course the farther way the object is, the bigger it needs to be if it is to be detected.
Source:
www.aero.org...

Note: The stated nominal mission of seeing 3 km objects in the asteroid belt is not the same as saying what WISE's capabilities are for detecting NEO (i.e. closer than the Asteroid belt).

Perhaps they can't find all NEO's that pose a threat, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't look for SOME that pose a threat. I still don't see how this project has anything to do with Nibiru.

...By the way, perhaps WISE could detect objects in the Asteroid Belt smaller than 3 km in diameter, but detection is not simply up to the hardware itself -- it also takes teams of people going through data on Earth (which costs money). Perhaps the nominal mission only called for a budget that would allow those people to find relatively large Asteroid Belt objects (such as 3 km).



[edit on 9/1/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by Phage


Reading the information provided in sources and understanding them seems to be a problem for some.

I can always count on you Phage to add your incite and attention to detail.

Finding answers is what we are all looking for, but misinterpreting the data to support it can be hard to catch. Second pair of eyes is the best way to keeping grounded.

Rhain

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

Something along the lines of: Detect most asteroids larger than 0.15 km. But they didn't, did they... why not?

Because they cannot detect most asteroids larger than .15km. But they can identify hundreds of them.

Publicity, exactly. PR. What sounds better?
1) We can find a small percent of the hundreds of thousand of small asteroids.
2) We can find most of the large asteroids that would destroy the Earth if they hit it.

t is unacceptable to state as a fact that "It will be able to detect asteroids as small as 100 meters. Some of them. It will be able to detect most of the asteroids which are larger than 3 km." You don't know this and they certainly did not say this.

That is exactly what they said.


[edit on 9/1/2009 by Phage]