Steel Piece Proves Lie - NIST engineer John Gross denies WTC molten steel

Originally posted by Psynarchist
reply to post by hooper

 

Ok true that, SPreston did provide a link that stated that Use of Thermate explains the "Underground Fires"

As far as I'm concerned though, I'd venture to say that it could have been anything BUT jetfuel that brought the towers down in this fashion and cause the metal anomalies we see here, including the lies. This bickering about which kind of Thermite seems a little silly when considering the technological advancement of the military agencies and or whatever other secret agency around.

Could it not be that something similar to thermite was invented without public knowledge, and subsequently used on 911?

We don't know, but going by what we do know there is still plenty of info to suggest an inside job and cover-up. Not to mention motive!

I think you're kind of mixing things up here a bit. Nobody said that jet fuel was the sole source of heat. It started the fires, but there was literally tons and tons of flammable material in those buildings. Then the collapsed building formed a primitive oven and the materials kept burning.

reply to post by hooper


Which of those materials do you figure burns hot enough to melt structural steel and keep it molten for months? Where did the elevated tritium levels come from? Watches and Exit signs?

reply to post by twitchy


Are we now saying that the material that has been described as "molten" is now definetly steel? When was that determination made?

As for the elevated levels of tritium - what is your source for this determination?

How many exit signs were there now that you mention it. These were huge buildings, almost an acre of office space on each floor. Massive amounts of flammable material - ever see culm bank fires? They last for decades.

reply to post by hooper

I think you're kind of mixing things up here a bit. Nobody said that jet fuel was the sole source of heat. It started the fires, but there was literally tons and tons of flammable material in those buildings. Then the collapsed building formed a primitive oven and the materials kept burning.

Wouldn't most of the fires stop burning when the towers collapsed?
I mean, debunkers often say that the pancake effect caused huge surges of compressed air to burst out of the building (as a rebuttal to demolition charges) - and how does a fire burn when it's stuck between several floors of concrete?

I think the idea that the collapsed building formed a primitive oven is more of a stretch than some form of unknown military tech compound similar or close to thermite being used.

Edit to add: I just had a look at your member profile... might as well post with the anonymous function. If there ever was a template profile perfect for paid disinfo agents to come to threads and stretch the imagination to the extend that the topic at hand gets lost in the side topics, yours would be a good one! Not saying you are, just being honest here.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Psynarchist]

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by SPreston

 

Once again SPreston, spouting off nonsensical techno-jargon without having a clue as to what the heck he is saying.

There is no such thing as a steel box I-beam. Its either an I-beam, or a box beam. You cannot, repeat, cannot mix the two up.

For those truly interested in facts and truth, here is a steel box beam:
www.alibaba.com...

Here is an I-beam:
www.quality-fabrication.com...

Notice the key differences. [guote]

What a load of jack jaw smoke and mirror show you have here.
It doesn't matter what sp calls the damn thing what you post as links are in no way similar.
Quickly put your cape over all three objects THREE your two and SPrestons
Presto changeo a Box I beam appears for the audience!

Well, I was open minded and watched the video.

The fires burned for EIGHT WEEKS, fed by oxygen from the digging operations.

There are underground fires in stacks of old automobile tires that burn for years. They are buried and even in the relatively anaerobic environment they self-feed and burn for years on end.

Of course the steel is melted.

reply to post by Psynarchist


Hey psyna
Good post but this is usually a techy pee contest type thread
I know a guy looking for some support on his Karl Marx thread.
Anyway that steel sure got bent. just sayin.

reply to post by Donny 4 million


Ah so it does not matter the proper terms being used for construction? I see, and do you understand the ramifications of being ignorant?

There are BIG differences between a box-beam and an I-beam. If he wants to be credible in his accusations, he'd better be using proper terminology. Why? because sometimes what happens is others just as ignorant, or uninformed will come across his words and then go off spouting the same misinformation. You cannot mix and match words as you see fit and think no one will know the difference. And such dishonesty puts the whole credibility issue at stake.



[edit on 8/20/2009 by GenRadek]

scientist examine the molten metal

[edit on 20-8-2009 by conar]

Originally posted by SPreston

There were 47 such box columns welded together forming a core structure over 1000 feet high in each tower. As you state, the box columns at the bottom were much heavier and stronger, having to support much more mass, than those higher up.

Actually, the core columns were box columns at the bottom, and transitioned into H-beams (not I-beams) part way up. here's a reference: wtcmodel.wikidot.com... click on whatever column you choose to look at,and it'll take you to a gif that runs through the entire height of the building.

These 47 box columns were embedded hundreds of feet into the bedrock below the 7 story basement levels.

Hundreds of feet? I don't think so. I read what your link said, but I believe he's in error. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone else that'll agree with that statement. Bedrock was about 70' from the surface. So they might have drilled down a little, but hundreds of feet? C'mon now, don't be ridiculous....

reply to post by hooper


You can take a forest of dry wood and burn it at ground level till the cows come home. Max heat, blue flame approximately 1,600 f ---Primitive ceramics
Add forced air about 1,800 f Stone ware. Add jet fuel or gasoline-- slight rise for the quickly dissipating petrols.
At this point you could make iron run. A little tiny bit for a tiny time.
Iron not steel.
If the debris were loaded with coke COAL or Atrocities (better than coal) and seriously stoked with air, you could soften steel.
[That beam would require about a boxcar load) Please tell me how these conditions could be met.

Originally posted by hooper


was? A couple million pounds of falling building.

Couple of million pounds per building?, whilst 80% was being ejected outside the building, and ofc the whole weight of the building hit everything on it`s descent as well

Stick to arguing about what type of beams are what, it`s tailor made for you.

reply to post by Joey Canoli


You people swat at gnats and swallow camels; to paraphrase GOD Almighty.

What is this then at your link, where they are titled 'Steel Wide Flange I Beams.?

NIST Core Column Data

The steel wide flange I-beams that comprise a portion of the column sections have standard dimensions. The data for most of those column sections is collected in this table. Note that a slight translation is needed to go from the NIST naming convention to the table. For example, the section 14WF665F36 can be located in the first row of the steel wide flange i beams table which is labeled as W14x665. At this time, the table does not cover all of the wide flange beam sections found in the columns.

source

The Tower core structure was comprised of 47 core columns inside an area measuring 87 feet by 133 feet. Here are four cross-sections of core column 1008 (core column number 47 (corner column)) starting in the sub-basement.

NIST Data so don't screech at me about it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6358dd10bf4d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/baecb1a2ea89.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/07577caa6a52.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2f77f8ab9c3c.jpg[/atsimg]

So why couldn't these guys standing around this 8-ton horseshoe shaped core column simply call it an I-beam because that was what the higher core columns were, as they described how it took thousands of degrees to bend it without stress cracks or buckling or tearing?



This 8-ton 6 inch thick steel I-beam was once straight, but is now curved into a horseshoe shape without stress cracks, by the intensive heat which formed the molten metal under the WTC.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/edf353238801.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 8/20/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Psynarchist

 

But I thought the argument was that the alledge "pools of molten metal" were the direct result of the alledged use of thermite/thermate and could have no other alledged source? My question is simply - how did that much thermite/mate get into the WTC in the alleged first place?

To answer your question if someone did not already. After the bombing in 1993, crews were working in the buildings installing "sprinkler" systems. Thermite cord could have easily been wrapped around the box columns and wired for later use. How hard is that to comprehend?

Did you know that the FBI had arrested 170 or so Israeli soldiers in this country illegally? Clearance badges and other documents were confiscated that these soldiers used to access military bases and intelligence centers. The FBI also siezed dozens of delivery vans and raided 5 warehouses where the alleged soldiers were working out of. Explosives residue was found in most of the vans and in all of the buildings. When the FBI went back to question the detained soldiers, they had been informed that the soldiers had been deported back to Israel?

As for the molten metal, if thermite was used and water was poured on it, water is an accelerant to thermite, it is fuel to keep it burning. Every play with Magnesium? Pour water on that when it's burning and watch the explosion!!

BTW, I am a welder and metal fabricator and have welded all the different types of metals. It takes a very high amount of heat at a sustained time period to create hot spots like that. And the molten metal pouring out of the building just seconds after impact, please, that's obvious what caused that, and it wasn't the exploding jet fuel. And yes, all the jet fuel burned up on impact, no way to get to the basement.

Some of you debunkers are just hilarious.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

Ah so it does not matter the proper terms being used for construction? I see, and do you understand the ramifications of being ignorant?

There are BIG differences between a box-beam and an I-beam. If he wants to be credible in his accusations, he'd better be using proper terminology. Why? because sometimes what happens is others just as ignorant, or uninformed will come across his words and then go off spouting the same misinformation. You cannot mix and match words as you see fit and think no one will know the difference. And such dishonesty puts the whole credibility issue at stake.[edit on 8/20/2009 by GenRadek]

The ramifications of whaaaat?
Keep on diggin that hole for your ownself genrad.
Post SPrestons image along side your images and tells us all about whaaat!!!
You know before someone else does.
Then you won't be labled an WHAAAAt fool for ever.
A rose by anyother name is still a box I beam.

reply to post by SPreston


.Thanks SP.
Anyone who is not cerebrally challenged knows I (as in Roman numeral one ) plus I ( as in Roman numeral one) squared or even rectangulared equals BOX I (as in Roman numeral one] Beam. Throw in the center flat steel you might have the makings of a tri fecta at Yonkers Raceway.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by SPreston

There were 47 such box columns welded together forming a core structure over 1000 feet high in each tower. As you state, the box columns at the bottom were much heavier and stronger, having to support much more mass, than those higher up.

Actually, the core columns were box columns at the bottom, and transitioned into H-beams (not I-beams) part way up. here's a reference: wtcmodel.wikidot.com... click on whatever column you choose to look at,and it'll take you to a gif that runs through the entire height of the building.

These 47 box columns were embedded hundreds of feet into the bedrock below the 7 story basement levels.

Hundreds of feet? I don't think so. I read what your link said, but I believe he's in error. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone else that'll agree with that statement. Bedrock was about 70' from the surface. So they might have drilled down a little, but hundreds of feet? C'mon now, don't be ridiculous....

Put your reputation where your puter keys are and just blert it out ever so boldly.
Gosh joey how deep were they then?
As you turn your head and walk away.
Could you measure the depth with one of your body parts?

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by hooper
Are we now saying that the material that has been described as "molten" is now definetly steel? When was that determination made?

In the FEMA report, appendix C, they do a metallurgical study on corroded samples of steel from columns, beams, etc. and conclude the corrosion was caused by a eutectic reaction that caused the steel to melt.

Look it up yourself. I posted this on page 1 of this thread but apparently you didn't read it.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weed
I love ya man
Sit, lie down cross your legs , finger tips together,breath deep and rythmically. Enter that relm of oneness.
And then for jumpin johosifats tells us all why Building NUMBER SEVEN is a reconstructed monument to the guy that said pull-it?
No spin allowed.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Donny 4 million]

reply to post by bsbray11


I read it, a eutectic reacion in an oxygen starved hydrocarbon fire eh? I think I just concluded something myself. For those of you who don't know, FEMA is apparently of the opinon that the steel became an 'easily melted alloy'. Happens all the time in steel framed structural fires I guess.