Ha, get a laugh out of this

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Ah, statistics. By cherrypicking the defining parameters, one can make any point that is desired. In this case, the parameter which causes the conclusion is by comparing all deaths by physicians to only "accidental" deaths by firearm.

You're missing the point of the OP's Article.

Though some have used this opportunity to say doctors are more dangerous than guns that is not the primary message of this thread.

The primary point is that it is nonsense to ban all firearms because of accidental deaths due to their improper use. It's proven as nonsense by statistics which show that even doctors, those we entrust to save lives, kill far more people accidentally.




Unrelated:

The simplest definition of a tool is "an implement used to facilitate an action."


Carpentry tools are implements used to facilitate carpentry. (By helping to form wood into structures.)

Weapons are implements used to facilitate security. (By eliminating threats.)

Tools group A are implements used to facilitate Action B (By performing their intended function.)

A weapons intended function is to kill threats. This fact rather than making it some other category actually makes it a tool.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Studious]

reply to post by NatureBoy

Here in the real world, most robbers aren't risking their freedom, for a dvd player that may fetch 5 dollars. When you grow up and have a wife or maybe even a daughter, you may realize that a person who is capable of breaking and entering illegaly and see's that you're defenseless, well he might find something else he wants something the insurance company can't replace. I hope you're a real good fighter the best in all of europe, once someone intrudes on say your daughters rights, her feeling of security or comfort aren't easily regained.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
interesting stats...

now lets consider how many 'gun owners' just happened to be working really hard to perform a delicate medical procedure or choose the right compound to treat a rare or obscure illness when they accidentally discharged their 44 into little suzzy's cranium.

Haha i suppose all the rest of the people killed by guns were on purpose so didn't count right?

A gun is a weapon, pure and simple - they are made to end life.
A doctor is a good guy working hard - they just try to save lives.
Compareing the two is just retarded.

Really it's pathetic how desperate you gun nuts are getting!

No, the rest of the people who were killed intentionally by guns don't count into the accidental deaths number. Why...?...nevermind......

And by the way, you've been watching too much House. Doctor's don't kill people who have rare illnesses, they kill people with allergies to certain medications because they didn't care to do a proper history. Abandoning protocol or even their station, these are deaths caused by doctors, not deaths doctors failed to prevent. Confusing the two would seem an indication of mental deficiency.

A doctor is a good guy working hard.....oh geez, because that's why people go to medical school, to graduate and work hard......

I think the OP is just desperate for statistics justifying owning a gun.

A gun is a tool of deadly intentions, when you use it you intend to kill or seriously injure. People using gun for fun and practice do it in the wild or in very safe place, therefore risks of 'unintentional deaths' are low.

You can't compare this with common everyday life things like doctors, illness, cars, plane crashes or whatever. I am sure more people die from tripping in the bathroom than 'unintentional gunfire'.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of doctors want to save your life, not end it. And in the medical field, a small mistake, a wrong diagnostic can cost dearly. Doctors everyday save countless number of lives, guns only end them.

I really don't understand how gun nuts can use such arguments "hey, doctors unentionally kill more than ma guns"
Yeah so when a loved one get shot by a drug addict during a 'non unintentional' robbery, you can comfort him with your silly facts.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by TheOracle]

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

You are basically calling anyone who owns a gun a murderer, and taking away their rights based on the actions of others. You are punishing them for acts they have not even committed, and in many cases wouldn't commit.

You are basically putting words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort.
Please do me a favour and actually bother reading my post before you go to the effort of replying.

Correspondance works better that way. Usually when the reply is even slightly related to the original text.

Oh and may i suggest that your reading glasses may be on your head?

thanks

Originally posted by Cool Breeze
reply to post by NatureBoy

 

Guns are tools. Plain and simple. I could use a hammer to kill someone... would it still be the guns fault?

Last time i checked a hammer was a tool and a gun was a weapon.
Even a child could tell the difference.

With little to no data, some wrong methodologies, random numbers and few biased smart-looking excel graphs - one can make wonders aka statistics .

Article being talked here is actually a joke chain email letter.

Here's some statistic which at least come from a probably-reliable source:

CDC:
3,582 fatal unintentional drownings in the United States [1]

Some Guy:
1.500 accidental gun deaths [?]


* 1. www.cdc.gov...

So... er... stay out of water .

Okay reading through this thread it seems that the following points apply.

In America you have the right to carry a gun because potentially ANYONE can shoot you. As for example even legal, gun lovers occasionaly go crazy and shoot up schools / colleges/ malls / buger bars / their own sons at shooting ranges / the homeless. This is because even crazy people (in which America has a vast amount) can purchase a gun from certain states.

Also bad guys are not humans. They are magical entities that all good guys must carry a gun to protect themselves from. Bad guys are not your children or any relative of anyone. Do not feel emotion for the kid who has no money due to ludicrous benefit refusals and lack of social medical care. Simply call them a bad guy and shoot to kill. They may look American but they ain't. Your DVD player is worth FAR more than your neighbours' kids life.

Bad guys are not normal American citizens. Sure they may be legally entitled to buy a gun like you, but chances are they got it on the black market which makes it all okay. Shoot to kill.

In America guns are not weapons they are tools and can often be seen on construction sites (replacing hammers and welding tools).

In America a gun is a bartering tool. Many legal processes are dealt with via guns such as the purchase of fruit and veg from grocers and also the interaction between school child and teacher. This is not absurd, this is perfectly normal. Guns are great.

In America your doctor and surgeon is evil. They must not be trusted and should be shot dead on sight. They may or may not be a 'bad guy' but don't take that chance.

In America you do not shoot to maim. As humans are considered wild animals. Shoot to kill only. Even if it was a mistake and it was your husband arriving home from the bar late. Shoot first ask questions later. Shucks, at least he won't sue you.

In America, statistics can be used to solve anything. Even if they are absurd and one sided.

In America Guns get bad press. A gun has NEVER shot anyone. EVER. This is because a gun is a tool and has no mind of its own. Anybody who claims to have been shot by a gun is simply telling lies.

In America bullets have NEVER hurt anyone. This is because they are simply inanimate metal objects and have no feelings. If anybody tells you otherwise, they must be a punk / bad guy/ terrorist and must be shot on site.

In America ALL problems are solved via hard core weaponry. There is no room for negotiation. This is why America is loved by everyone around the world.

Originally posted by Blade_Rain
Haha, that is ironic

.

Yep, i wonder how many docs, do it on purpose though. There are far more accidental deaths by docs than that.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Okay reading through this thread it seems that the following points apply.

In America you have the right to carry a gun because potentially ANYONE can shoot you. As for example even legal, gun lovers occasionaly go crazy and shoot up schools / colleges/ malls / buger bars / their own sons at shooting ranges / the homeless. This is because even crazy people (in which America has a vast amount) can purchase a gun from certain states.

Also bad guys are not humans. They are magical entities that all good guys must carry a gun to protect themselves from. Bad guys are not your children or any relative of anyone. Do not feel emotion for the kid who has no money due to ludicrous benefit refusals and lack of social medical care. Simply call them a bad guy and shoot to kill. They may look American but they ain't. Your DVD player is worth FAR more than your neighbours' kids life.

Bad guys are not normal American citizens. Sure they may be legally entitled to buy a gun like you, but chances are they got it on the black market which makes it all okay. Shoot to kill.

In America guns are not weapons they are tools and can often be seen on construction sites (replacing hammers and welding tools).

In America a gun is a bartering tool. Many legal processes are dealt with via guns such as the purchase of fruit and veg from grocers and also the interaction between school child and teacher. This is not absurd, this is perfectly normal. Guns are great.

In America your doctor and surgeon is evil. They must not be trusted and should be shot dead on sight. They may or may not be a 'bad guy' but don't take that chance.

In America you do not shoot to maim. As humans are considered wild animals. Shoot to kill only. Even if it was a mistake and it was your husband arriving home from the bar late. Shoot first ask questions later. Shucks, at least he won't sue you.

In America, statistics can be used to solve anything. Even if they are absurd and one sided.

In America Guns get bad press. A gun has NEVER shot anyone. EVER. This is because a gun is a tool and has no mind of its own. Anybody who claims to have been shot by a gun is simply telling lies.

In America bullets have NEVER hurt anyone. This is because they are simply inanimate metal objects and have no feelings. If anybody tells you otherwise, they must be a punk / bad guy/ terrorist and must be shot on site.

In America ALL problems are solved via hard core weaponry. There is no room for negotiation. This is why America is loved by everyone around the world.

Lmao, good post.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Copied that little rant, funny as hell, may come in handy, but ill make sure your names on it

reply to post by die_another_day


What you did not account for is the number of deaths that would result if we had no doctors, and compare that to the number of deaths that would result if we had no guns.

If there were no guns the number of gun related deaths would be zero. If there were no doctors, the number of deaths resulting from illness would certainly be higher than the number of deaths caused by doctor's mistakes (that is assuming doctors have a net positive result, which you are welcome to disagree). If you disagree, you are welcome to decline medical care if you ever get ill, or shot.

-rrr

Originally posted by Studious
even doctors, those we entrust to save lives, kill far more people accidentally.
[edit on 18-8-2009 by Studious]

Saying that doctor's kill accidentally is not a fair comparison, unless we are saying that doctors just show up on the homes of perfectly healthy people and kill them... I am sure that may have happened once or twice, but the vast majority of deaths "caused by doctors" are caused by a combination of factors: doctor's negligence or misdiagnoses, together with the reason that brought the person to the doctor in the first place (which may have been a gun, cancer, a heart problem caused by a crappy eating habits, etc.)

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr

Originally posted by Studious
even doctors, those we entrust to save lives, kill far more people accidentally.
[edit on 18-8-2009 by Studious]

Saying that doctor's kill accidentally is not a fair comparison, unless we are saying that doctors just show up on the homes of perfectly healthy people and kill them... I am sure that may have happened once or twice, but the vast majority of deaths "caused by doctors" are caused by a combination of factors: doctor's negligence or misdiagnoses, together with the reason that brought the person to the doctor in the first place (which may have been a gun, cancer, a heart problem caused by a crappy eating habits, etc.)

-rrr

It's double irony how the people with gunshot wounds who died in hospital are been blamed on the doctors now because they couldn't save the victim. Don't people realise that not every death is the fault of the doctor, but every gun murder is the fault of the person who wielded or owns the weapon.

Some American's would say anything to keep hold of their precious toys so they can play cowboys and indians when Obama is in town.

reply to post by die_another_day


S & F'd - well done, sir, and this is coming from a lawyer

reply to post by die_another_day


When coming up with those statistics, I imagine that the total deaths by gun owners can be divided between accidental and intentional

Furthermore they can be divided between lawful and unlawful.

I imagine that the only number of gun deaths that can be reasonably justified would have to be both intentional and lawful, say a cop shoots a suspect that poses an immediate threat to the public, or a citizen shoots a person that poses an immediate threat to their lives. Does anybody have number of citizen inflicted deaths that are lawful (and of course intentional?) that number is the only redeeming number in favor of free gun ownership by the average citizen. I would even contemplate counting gun related "preventions of death" or even theft, where a legally armed citizen successfully stopped a crime by just "showing" they had a gun. Frankly I don't know what that number is.

My gut tells me that those heroic acts gun owners dream of do happen, but very very rarely. I can be proven wrong of course.

I don't bother to count unintentional gun deaths that are lawful, cause, what are the chances you accidentally shoot somebody that just happened to be a threat to your life? Probably very small.

As far as deaths that are unlawful, it does not matter whether they are accidental or intentional, they should count against the argument of whether "guns are better than doctors" or not.

For this reason, I think it is dishonest to only count "accidental" gun deaths. What should have been counted are all unjustifiable gun deaths, which would include intentional deaths that happen to be unlawful... which I dare say.... are the vast majority of gun deaths.

-rrr

Originally posted by NatureBoy
interesting stats...

now lets consider how many 'gun owners' just happened to be working really hard to perform a delicate medical procedure or choose the right compound to treat a rare or obscure illness when they accidentally discharged their 44 into little suzzy's cranium.

Haha i suppose all the rest of the people killed by guns were on purpose so didn't count right?

A gun is a weapon, pure and simple - they are made to end life.
A doctor is a good guy working hard - they just try to save lives.
Compareing the two is just retarded.

Really it's pathetic how desperate you gun nuts are getting!

I guess it's a good thing that gun owners are not nearly as dedicated as your run of the mill doctor. Guns save lives....ever been attacked by a bear? Or by the common low land crack head?

Why do you think accidental deaths are funny? What if it happened to you.

reply to post by die_another_day


"Ha, get a laugh out of this" -- anyone.....anyone.....??

After scrolling through two pages of posts on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps you should've titled this thread: "Ha, watch me (and maybe three others) get a laugh out of this"...

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Originally posted by NatureBoy
interesting stats...

now lets consider how many 'gun owners' just happened to be working really hard to perform a delicate medical procedure or choose the right compound to treat a rare or obscure illness when they accidentally discharged their 44 into little suzzy's cranium.

Haha i suppose all the rest of the people killed by guns were on purpose so didn't count right?

A gun is a weapon, pure and simple - they are made to end life.
A doctor is a good guy working hard - they just try to save lives.
Compareing the two is just retarded.

Really it's pathetic how desperate you gun nuts are getting!

I guess it's a good thing that gun owners are not nearly as dedicated as your run of the mill doctor. Guns save lives....ever been attacked by a bear? Or by the common low land crack head?

I don't doubt guns save lives. But how many? They also end lives.

And to answer your question, (I know wasn't directed at me particularly) I have never been attacked by either a bear or a crack head, though I recognize it is a possibility.

So, let's suppose a crack head threatens me with a gun, and let's suppose I have a gun as well. how does that situation unfold now? do I pull out my gun out faster that they can shoot? Do you have any numbers on how often a citizen successfully shoots a crack head or other "low lives" who, by the way, are also constitutionally entitled to their own guns?

Here is another funny statistic: Number of accidental bear deaths: 0 Bears always kill on purpose.

-rrr