'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

The day I thought our country needed free healthcare was when I was 8 years old, I was staying the night at my grandpas house and when I woke up in the morning I seen 3 teeth laying on the table and him passed out on the couch with a whisky bottle in his hand. Turns out that since he didn't have health insurance he drank himself numb and pulled his teeth out with needle nose pliars is what i think they are called.

It was a reality check for me.

reply to post by getreadyalready


That's complete Bull$#@%, and you know it. Stephen Hawking has offered a lot of contributions to the physics communities, and if it wasn't for socialized medicine those contributions wouldn't be there. That's why his opinion is relevant.

How many people are there in America that have the potential to enrich communities, and lives, and are disabled or die every year, because they don't have access to healthcare?

Edited to add some words.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Evil_Santa]

There are - it seems - some terrible misconceptions from you guys over in the states about the NHS here. So let me break it down in a few bite sized chunks.

In the UK, we pay something called National Insurance. That money funds the NHS. The tax is deducted by the employer at source, as such we never see it, and therefore we don't miss it.

Essential treatment for medical care is then free for all people. Non-essential medication is provided via a subsidised prescription fee. Some services, such a dental treatment, are available at subsidised costs.

The NHS may also fund alternative treatments, or specialist treatments overseas, and those matters are reviewed on a case by case basis.

Anyone who wishes to pay for additional private healthcare can do so and their right to treatment on the NHS is not removed.

Its a multi tier system, and it works in the main. It has its pitfalls, sure, but it also has major benefits.

Its not sinister, or evil. Its just there.

NHS rocks, I have had operations and appointments running into the costs of millions, all I do is pay a bit o tax for the privilege. Stop being a bunch of moaners, your corrupt healthcare and insurance companies blow ass and let people die, kinda reminds me of something from the third world.

Sucks to be you

Originally posted by Double Eights

Originally posted by System
I really don't see what everyones problem is with this national healthcare. If you don't want it, go private. If you don't like the cheaper medication, then again, go private and get yourself the best. I've never had any problem with the NHS.

I still have to pay for it. Regardless of whether or not I want it.

THAT is why it's horsesh**.

You planning on never getting sick ? Are you God ?

What about all the other things which civilization and taxation pay for but you don't use ? Like roads, police, fire brigades, defense, waste, ohh - in fact almost everything in your life ?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well I'm 58, born and raised in the UK, always lived here, so no experience of other countries healthcare Luckily I have always been a fairly healthy person....i.e. no serious illnesses. However, I have no real complaints about our NHS so far. If I am worried about any little symptom I just book an appointment, the doctor is always pleasant and helpful and I don't feel rushed. I never have to think about whether I can AFFORD to go and see him. The only thing that has changed over the years is the cost of prescriptions.....used to be free years ago, but regularly go up....at the moment I believe the cost is getting near to £7 per item, but in the past my doctor has sometimes recommended over the counter medicines that are cheaper. I have been addicted to tablets for some years, that helps me relax, to get to sleep. I have no problem getting the prescription, usually 56 tablets at a time. Obviously I pay for that, but that is my choice. I do however halve the tablets, which seems sufficient, so they last me twice as long, consequently saves money.
My husband is on drugs for the rest of his life, for an underactive thyroid, and because of this he doesn't have to pay ANYTHING. I believe that is the same for any person who NEEDS the medication for life.

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I still would love to know where the constitution allows the FEDERAL government to regulate healthcare...

While I'd be the first to agree the Constitution is a vital and valuable document which outlines the ideology, and intangible doctrines of our great land, I'd be remiss not to point out that I don't think the Constitution (or any single document for that matter) can fully encompass the entire spectrum of the functions of Government.

That is why there were Amendments. That is why there was a Bill of Rights.

Our founding fathers although noble and just could not have anticipated the advancements in technology, medicine, science or exponential growth of America.

They could not have envisioned the vital need for the ancillary branches and departments vital to the health, safety and well being of our nations and her citizenry .

The Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, Department of Transportation to name a few. We've adapted the core principles and values to modern time.

It seems foolish to consider that our Founding Fathers would want a nation fraught with disease, sickness and infirmity.

Often when people bring the Constitution into the argument, I simply ask if they would like their next surgery performed with what was "State of the Art" in 1776.
(The life expectancy at that time was 50 years of age for males by the way.)

You are correct.. that's why the constitution is fluid.

Health care must be amended into the Constitution, and the STATES must ratify by the appropriate measure......

It is the only legal option.. or else the FEDERAL government will be operating something over the states that the states never told the feds that they could do.

Whether health care was "state of the art in 1776" is immaterial. The Constitution is supreme law.

Sad part of this thread is that is shows how selfish a certain group of americans are about life.America the land of the free,apart from when it comes to health care?

Having said that its great to see so many from across the pond support free health care(tiny tax amount),and I hope more show compassion to others.

Treat others how you expect to be treated,you never know one day you may need their help

I have heard when Hawkins went into Addenbrooks his computer went into PC World for a system check

This is all because some half wit American blogger said this in his article :

"people such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Not realizing Stephen Hawking was British and illustrating very well his acute buffoonery , as evidently , Mr Hawking , in contrast , did 'have a chance' under the allegedly useless NHS . Here is the fool's page with an edit referring to the mistake he made at the top .

www.ibdeditorials.com...

Info : news.bbc.co.uk...


[edit on 13-8-2009 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by quackers, as I have in other threads, this isn't really about health care, this is a throwback to the anti-communist brainwashing the US was subjected to for 40-50 years. I mean god forbid your tax dollars should go towards a common good.

that was not brainwashing, that was common sense, and, there were indeed "reds under the bed"

reply to post by zerbot565


The thing you get back for paying taxes with regard to this thread is that people whether you or somebody else is getting medical care.

I am Dutch and we have a similar system here as in the UK. The less I need a doctor the best that is. So "my money" (something a lot lof Americans are harping about, "damn it is MY money don't you rob it") is being used to help others. Is that not the whole idea of being human? Helping other living creatures, man animal or plant.

If it wasn't for the NHS and the quick thinking of doctors giving me something that could kill me or cure me (they didn't know) I would be dead at the age of 3 weeks old due to meningitus.

If it wasn't for the NHS My Dad would have died from a culmination of Athsma and Hayfever about 15 years ago.

I dont like paying taxes, who doesn't... but if I can go to the doctors for free then I believe it is worth paying taxes for. The NHS and Education which we get is pretty good and it could be much worse.

Bollocks to Orwellian... this system might not be perfect but it is still bloody good. And as long as we get something like good healthcare and good education from our taxes then I will keep paying my taxes. At least I'm seeing something good coming from it.

Well you should have just gone without the insurance since it's against the law not to treat you and they would have worked out a payment plan. Perhaps you could have figured that out if you had looked into it or perhaps you are just one of those people who can't do anything without your mommy holding your hand?

Wow.

Some of the posts on this thread are shocking in their selfish pettiness.

I wouldn't care so much, excpet my brother and his family, who work very hard, can't afford health insurance. Apparentley they make too much to be eligable for medicade though. So according to the majority of American posters in this thread, they don't deserve healthcare.

God bless America, eh? God help America, she needs it.

To those people who say "Only lazy people want others to provide for them."
This is the basic idea of every organized state. You pay taxes and others provide police, justice, education for you. Your basic needs. And I think healthcare is one of them!
Without this concept, what is the role of government? Or do you want anarchy? Because that is what you get without giving away part of your hard-earned money for others.
I can say that public healthcare system works well in my country, and my father is a doctor and I am studying to become one, so I think I am qualified enough to have an opinion.
If you have money, you can pay for luxury healthcare in private system, but it is costly.

I feel compelled to post here as someone who was born in the uk but spent most of my life living in the U.S.

I can tell you 100% that you are all being brainwashed into being scared of universal healthcare.

I mean seriously you guys go around this forum spouting "i am awake now" "my eyes are open" , thinking that you are privy to the real world and not being one of the sheeple. Well you are all as programmed as the average joe on the street.

Just read this and take note, I am sick and tired of all the crap you are being fed about national healthcare, my sister still lives in the states and she is so brainwashed she is barely recognisable, and recently got my dad to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for melanoma treatment because her U.S. doctors told her if she came back the the U.K. for treatment she WOULD die.

Let me give you my personal experience.

When I was living in the states I played roller and ice hockey. I started to get tired while playing and became quite ill. I went through test after test for over two years at a cost of around $65,000 total, to be told I have Mitral Valve Prolapse (a heart problem) and suffered from sinus taccicardia. I was on beta blockers and other medications and had to quit sports for good. Well I had been deteriorating from about age 16- the age of 22.

At 21 I had moved back to the UK and decided to see what the doctors here could do, so I went to my GP who checked my heart rate and referred me to the cardiologist at my local hospital. The next day I had a letter in my door with an appoitment to see the doctor. I was given a 24 hour heart monitor and a blood presssure monitor and given ECG's and a variety of other tests and had excellent care and follow up diagnoses.

The last test I had was the ECG which I remember being like an ultrasound for a baby, and they checked my heart over thoroughly. They told me that I had been mis diagnosed in the states and there was a 0% chance that I had Mitral Valve Prolapse, because they showed me my mitral valve and it was not prolapsing, but functioning normally. I then realised what had happened.

They had diagnosed me with problems that I did not have in order to perform more and more tests to make more money off my dad. They knew my dad was well off and had money, so they took two years to make whatever they could from us, and then sell us medications that I did not need. It was all to make money.

Think about it, if you Americans thought that free healthcare was as good or better than yours, then you would complain about paying so much for it.

If they tell you that all the other free countries are having to wait, getting botched surgeries, and paint horror stories, you will fight to keep paying.

They don't want you to know that you don't have to pay for this stuff!

Wake up!


[edit on 13-8-2009 by DARKJEDIG]

Originally posted by TreX-UK
IF it wernt for the NHS i wouldnt be here nor would my sister

or let me rephase that .. we would be here but paying the Medical bills off for the rest of our lives

We pay our National Insurance Tax to pay for the NHS ..its Extremley Over Streached Under funded and Over worked... the Nurse's and Doctors Ever one in the NHS are heros in My eyes! cause they dont get Paid # loads either!

3rd biggest employer in the world would suggest that the funding isn't the issue

The NHS works

That is the point and why? Because we all chip in....

In the USA its like the wild west? every man for him self... we dont like tax!!!

go tell that to the FED who tax your goverment to print its own paper..

Or JFK who tried to GET RID of the FED who are a GROUP of bankers who print money out of thin are and charge you for it..

If you think im kidding? feel free to look at my thread on the fed.

You are being scammed by very rich men who like it this way..

we get taxed yes.. but we never worry about dying ..or affording to be sick

this is 21centruy Everyone should have health care.

If you do not like paying? then get sick.. and then worry about it

I am very proud that my fellow UK brothers n sisters ALL chip in for each other..

I pay for health for OTHERS and im proud of that fact

Long live the NHS

"set up by a labour government may i add"

do not vote in David Cameron hes a tool "sorry just had to add that"

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
The NHS works

That is the point and why? Because we all chip in....

In the USA its like the wild west? every man for him self... we dont like tax!!!

go tell that to the FED who tax your goverment to print its own paper..

Or JFK who tried to GET RID of the FED who are a GROUP of bankers who print money out of thin are and charge you for it..

If you think im kidding? feel free to look at my thread on the fed.

You are being scammed by very rich men who like it this way..

we get taxed yes.. but we never worry about dying ..or affording to be sick

this is 21centruy Everyone should have health care.

If you do not like paying? then get sick.. and then worry about it

I am very proud that my fellow UK brothers n sisters ALL chip in for each other..

I pay for health for OTHERS and im proud of that fact

Long live the NHS

"set up by a labour government may i add"

do not vote in David Cameron hes a tool

"sorry just had to add that"

I am in the UK and think the NHS is grossly overstaffed and overfunded- as for your last comment, there is no party difference, David Cameron could as well be in the Labour party for crying out loud

reply to post by MOTT the HOOPLE


its National health Service not system!!

sorry :p

reply to post by blueorder


Well yes but since labour came in.. no offence

Minimum wage---

thats all i need to know

Oh and maggy took my milk away, i cant for get that cracker..

My MILK means a lot lol

But on point

The NHS works better and the USA system .. why?

We have the choice.. to go private AND at the same time be in a public "pool"

we pay tax all the time.. why do you pay tax?

because the masters of the universe want you to be fit and able to WORK

the USA just want to grind the # out of there own people for GREED

wake up mate.. first it was commies then socialism now its muslims..

people get conned so easy

Mk ULTRA right in your FACE fox news talking heads who have a nice little peace of the PIE you are making

Without us lot there would be no RICH people why??

WE MAKE THEM RICH not the other way round.

I think being looked after considering i burn my ass off going to work is a good deal and when im not sick? im looking after someone who just broke a leg..

its about MORALS not MONEY