O' bama is not NATURAL born. It is clear. Only a fortnight now....

Originally posted by chiron613
To the best of my understanding, at the time Obama was born (in Hawaii), any person born on US soil was automatically a natural born US citizen. That law may have been changed after that, but back then it applied.

OK, I tracked it down. This link gives the qualifications for being a "natural born citizen". The first point states:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

That would be Obama. Nowhere does it require that the parents be citizens.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by chiron613]

Oh please! That page you linked doesn't even contain the word ''natural''. Even an anchor baby is a citizen. Obama can be a citizen all you like, but he is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. What do you think the phrase means?!!

The whole point is to have a President with allegiance to the U.S. and the U.S. only.

Why do you think they wrote NATURAL BORN instead of BORN or NATIVE BORN?

Because it is something totally different.

reply to post by THX-1138


He's a natural born citizen according to the constitution. Nowhere does it state that both parents have to be citizens and case law has always upheld that being born on US soil makes you a natural born citizen. All you're doing is inserting your own definition of 'natural'. It's just an opinion and there's nothing to support it, sorry.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
reply to post by THX-1138

 

He's a natural born citizen according to the constitution. Nowhere does it state that both parents have to be citizens and case law has always upheld that being born on US soil makes you a natural born citizen. All you're doing is inserting your own definition of 'natural'. It's just an opinion and there's nothing to support it, sorry.

No. Case law does not uphold that only being born on US soil makes you a natural born citizen. In fact it does the opposite. Look at this link.... freerepublic.com...

There are specific cases mentioned.

Obama is not a natural born citizen.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
He's a natural born citizen according to the constitution.

How is that possible when the Constitution does not directly define the definition of natural born as most of you non-birthers keep repeating?

Ovomit is a loser and needs to come clean.

Perhaps he was hatched from an egg?



This is getting absurd, it's amazing the nonsense that people will believe.

Originally posted by THX-1138
Southern Guardian, get over it.

Over what? Have not proven anything. Im asking you to prove it to us directly from the constitution.

You are babbling about stuff that the rest of us have moved well beyond. We are talking about being a natural born citizen. We are not talking about where he was born. That birth certificate, though it is fake, is a red herring. It is a distraction.

I am talking about natural born. Where in the constitution does it say this? You continously fail to reference us directly from the constitution. You can claim that may be the fact but we want a link directly from the constitution where it claims this.

I gave you three links to the constitution before. if you can link me to the part of the constitution where it clearly states both parents as citizens for natural borns on US soil that would be much appreciated.

Ok, here is another little bit of interesting evidence which makes you wonder if something nefarious is going on with Hawaii because they "modified" their website in June of 2009.

From the documents I listed below, you want to be concered with the "Primary Documents" section. The first link is a web capture archive from 2006 which shows that the certification of live birth is NOT a valid document for verifing residence by itself. It states that they need the certificate of live birth. The second link shows the current webpage which shows the wording as allowing a certificate of live birth.

Hmm....wonder why they made this change? ** COUGH, Ovomit **

Cached 2006 version

Points of interest from the Cached version:

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:

A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

And another point from the Cached version:

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

Current Version

Same section from the current version:

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth.

The cached version does not mention the certification of live birth as being as being a document for qualification without further evidence unlike the current version.

It's funny how they go out of there way to mention numerous times that the certification of live birth is now acceptable.

Again, Hmmm.....wonder why they changed it? We know why, at least I do.

My point of this is that since the state of Hawaii needed more proof than the certification of live birth, which is what Ovomit has shown us, it stands to reason that the citizens of America should need more proof also.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Lie.

Nowhere in the constitution does it state that both parents must be US citizens, infact the constitution only mentions "natural born citizenship" once when it defines eligibility for the presidency. It doesnt directly define natural born citizenship however it does clearly state that the presidency is a birth right, those born on US soil.

Many birthers have time and time again referenced their evidence from WND and Israeli insider, rightwing propaganda websites. The issue of the birthers is that they continously fail to reference in the constitution or among the statutory (federal) laws where it clearly states that both parents must be citizens in order for children born on soil to be natural born.

The only time where the constitution and the laws clearly state that both parents must be citizens is in the case when children are born off US soil, something birthers are yet to prove in Obamas case.

So until the birthers prove constitutionally that Obama is ineligible, that is the laws directly from the constitution, not a personal definition from a fringe website, not a personal definition from a politician, they are dead in the water.

The birther campaign is already dead, but on multiple accounts birthers try to revive it. At the end of the day their claims are always exposed as false and as always the campaign dies to be brought back to life with another hollow claim. Dont pay too much attention to the bluffing.

Whats interesting is the hypocrisy. They complain about the lack of evidence of eligibility despite whats been presented, yet they readily take in what some blogger claims or what some individual claims with no evidence what so. They complain about how "bias factchecker is" and yet they expect us to take them seriously when they reference WND or the Israeli insider, obvious fringe websites. The hypocrisy of it all.



SG


[edit on 31-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

You know, why don't you start proving something, if he has a long form certificate like this www.abovetopsecret.com... then show it so we can all end this. Don't tell me he don't have to prove anything ect.ect. he is the president he works for us (lol) he could fix things and make everyone happy. So why would anyone who was in his place not want to keep the peace. He can't that is why, and you are defending a criminal. When he is on death row for treason, whether it be in prison or a field some where, I really don't think you will be running your mouth then will you? Like it has been said there is no creditable source for information because he covered it all up to keep people from finding out.

Originally posted by xyankee
You know,

I know that you failed to find anything to prove your argument. Its not in the constitution nor among the federal laws to state the citizenship of both parents in the case of children born on soil. You cant find anything so naturally you move on with another argument.

why don't you start proving something

I dont have to. Obama merely proving sufficiently his birth right is enough by all accounts for him to be eligible. The campaign ended, his satisfied what was required to prove his eligibility, his not obligated to prove anything further.

In reference to the constitution it clearly does not state that the individual of interest has to show their extended for of birth certificate (long form) neither does it state the individual has to satisfy the entire population of these United states (if it did we would never get to electing a president).

The constitution clearly states:
According to the court, the Constitution vests Congress -- no individual voters, or even opposing candidates -- with the final authority re: the qualifications of the Presidency.:

Article II prescribes that each state shall appoint, in the manner directed by the state’s legislature, the number of presidential electors to which it is constitutionally entitled. The Twelfth Amendment prescribes the manner in which the electors appointed by the states shall in turn elect the president:

“[t]he electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President . . . and they shall . . . transmit [their votes] sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; — The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.”

www.law.cornell.edu...

Congress did confirm so along with the electoral college:
drbobbiannewhite.890m.com...

In addition the state of Hawaii further confirms Obamas eligibility:
www.kxma.com...

In addition his short form birth certificate is sufficient evidence of birth for the state of Hawaii, which was verified by the state of Hawaii itself, including the Hawaiian health officials:

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.
"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008.

www.politifact.com...

Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama's birth certificate and found it to be valid.

www.starbulletin.com...

Birth certificates as defined:

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

hawaii.gov...

You may not accept it as sufficient enough however you do not dictate the laws of the land.

if he has a long form

Uh I dont care what he has. As far as Im concerned his finished running for president and has satisfied sufficiently his birth right. His not obligated to do anything further, especially for a bunch of whining rightwingers who hate the man for a list of reasons.

SG

[edit on 2-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]

I love this one. Finally we have a President that is well spoken, intelligent and can speak in a complete sentence without making a fool out of himself and he's not even American. And the last eight years we had a President that was so #ing stupid he couldn't even walk through a door and looked like some kind of developmentally disabled inbred cracker who called his sister mommy and had to have the supreme court choose him to be idiot in chief and the country was destroyed under his so called leadership and he was an American. Given a choice I'll take the African thank you very much.
And if he really is African, which I highly dought, then that's what we deserve for believing everything that ignorant right wing administration said for the last eight, misery filled, years. Have a nice day.

reply to post by kenton1234


there have been a lot of well spoken men throughout history that were corrupt
evil and committed great atrocities...I fail to see how your post even comes close to making a point on that note.....

besides its off topic please stick to the subject matter

as usual southern guardian misses the obvious.
why has barry spent more money hiding his past then he will make as president for 4 years?
he's not legit...get over it.

the fbi does not do a background check on elected officials.

and as usual,southern guardian uses irrelevant links and info to try and bully his point.
the fact still remains...he has not proven elegibility.
what about his stint in indonesia?
why did they change major cook's orders?

if people like you are guarding the south,we are in big trouble.
i hope you're not in TEXAS.

oh,and a ps for ya...african is not a race!!!!

[edit on 2-8-2009 by Spectre0o0]

reply to post by THX-1138


To put it simply, bull#. You've evidently been sucking on Orly's teat once too many times.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
as usual southern guardian misses the obvious.

Whats this? Your "solid evidence"? All Iv seen from birthers thus far is speculative garbage. Your buddies here cant seem to find their "law of natural born citizenship" anywhere in the constitution or among the federal laws. Maybe you can?

why has barry spent more money

Why should I care? Your personal suspicions of the man doesnt prove to me his ineligible. You expect me to sit here and take your "personal suspicions" as evidence enough after the tonne of other garbage you fellas go through about this man? Really now. Im not concerned about "what your suspicious of". The accusation you make here, of his ineligibility, his supposed "birth in Kenya", these are pritty major accusations. If you want to run your mouth off about his ineligibility I suggest you put your evidence where your mouth is.

he's not legit

And you base this on what?? Your personal conclusion over personal suspicions? Please. If you were in court you would be charged for wasting the courts time.

...get over it.

Get over what? His still president and your still sitting here whining about his supposed "ineligibility". What do I have to get over?

Why dont you cut the bluffing and start backing up all the talk you fellas seem to through around here.

the fbi does not do a background

Neither does the CIA, NSA, bush administration and rival presidential candidates? Including the Bush administration?

I find it ironic that for all the talk of the CIA,FBI and NSA having backround checks on everybody for the NWO, for all the talk of the CIA controlling entire countries, for all the talk for the McCain campaign digging dirt into Obama, for some odd reason they missed the part of his history where he wasnt born on US soil.

Seriously now.

and as usual,southern guardian uses irrelevant links

Oh im sorry I didnt know the US constitution and Hawaii law was irrelevant. If you had paid attention you would have noticed that 90% of my sources came from pure online US constitution websites and the official website for the Hawaii state government. If you call those irrelevant your definatly not going to prove anything under a court of law I assure ya.

the fact still remains...he has not proven elegibility.

He has proven sufficiently his eligibility and I proved it above. I also further noted that your personal basis for "evidence over eligibility" do not dictate the actual laws and standards of the land.

african is not a race!!!!

Your not a birth certificate expert. Neither were those 3 stooges behind their computer names on that rightwing fringe website... ya know? the ones that "concluded" the birth certificate was fake? with no credentials or references to show for it?

Try harder.

SG

[edit on 2-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


you mean like the DAILY KOS? a true reputable news source.
you're a real stitch!

yeah you used the Constitution,but the rest were your favorite left-progressive dribble.
you haven't proved a thing,except that you think you know more than most everybody.
ask your high school guidance councelor for advice.

and just remember...ITS BUSH'S FAULT!!!!




[edit on 2-8-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Lord, help us!!! It is going to turn into a march on the White House and guns in the streets.

Do you know what a natural is? You don't know what you are talking about do you? Tell us.

How about in the game of poker.... a natural is a hand with no wildcards. A natural heterosexual couple breeding in their country of origin would be a male citizen and a female citizen, no wildcards. No Mexican citizen. No Kenyan citizen. No Korean citizen. Just two U.S. citizens creating a baby. When that baby is born inside the United States it is a natural born citizen, no wildcards, simply two U.S. citizens providing egg & sperm to create a natural. It is the purest form citizen proceeding from two citizens and being born inside the Republic. That baby has allegiance to only one country, the mother's country, the father's county, it's birth country, all one and the same. TRIFECTA!!! Presidential material. No wildcards.

My goodness some of you people are stubborn and/or ignorant of your ignorance.

Oh, and by the way, smarty Guardian, notice that the first words of the document are ''We the People of the United States'' and not ''We the People of the continent of Africa'' or ''We the wildcards'' or ''We the unclean masses of the entire planet Earth''. The natural is one of the People of the United States, not Kenya, not a wildcard. It is a document for US ONLY!

Southern Guardian, xmotex, Space Punk and all the rest of the unbelievers, define the word ''natural'' for us. Tell us all what it means.

Demonstrate your superior intellect and define the word for us.

hey thx,why'd it get so quiet so suddenly?????
LOL

In this current time, the Democrat party is the party of the ultra liberals and radical leftists. They are attacking our Constitution. They are attempting to bring us down to the level of all other countries on the planet Earth and make us into just another neighbor with no outstanding features. We are NOT like all the other countries. We will not be dragged down. You leftist liberals REALLY ARE like crabs in a barrel. You simply do not believe that everyone can win. You have to make up losers and victims. You play the victimization game. You seek to remove a person's God given rights and powers. You seek to eliminate the power of this country and lord over it from some foreign location. To hell with you.