Satan vs Lucifer

It's said that Satan has many names so Lucifer and Satan are interchangable in terms of WHO they represent - Lucifer tends to represent Satan before he was thrown out of Heaven.

www.markbeast.com...

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I think Satan may eminate from Setan or Setian, who was the dark brother of Horus, or Osiris.

for al we know horus and osiris were dark ones. history is written by the ones who win the war. example howthe west was won in the u.s.

the mayan god was said to have black twin who was evil too, but mayans abonded their cities for unknown reasons. maybe it was because of the "evil" brother who was actually good and told the mayans the truth about their precious sepernt.

a freemason is quoted in sayin' the angel of darkness trick the world int believi' he is the angel of light.

Originally posted by probed
It's said that Satan has many names so Lucifer and Satan are interchangable in terms of WHO they represent - Lucifer tends to represent Satan before he was thrown out of Heaven.

www.markbeast.com...

there is nothng in thebibe that says a angel named satan or lucifer was cast outta heaven by god.

reply to post by Apache-Yaqui


Hi Apache/

I totally agree with you!
Why do people do just that!

"JAVAN IN THE HOUSE OF SHEM:" A MUST-HAVE FOR ALL CHRISTIANS5
Javan was the forefather of the Greeks, just as Shem is the ancestor of the Semitic peoples, among these the Jews.
This work, begun in 275 B.C. by a group of seventy rabbis, represents the union of two cultures that forever changed history.
The Work of the Seventy, or THE SEPTUAGINT, is a watershed in Jewish history and critical in the formation of the Christian Church.

Introduction on the SEPTUAGINT~


ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670

Originally posted by Apache-Yaqui
there is nothing in the ogrinal bible writtn in hebrew that speak about an angel that fell from heaven called satan or lucifer. lucifer s actualy a latin name for venus tha got mistranslated by the romans.

but in the bible it does speak about giants not of this world

Hi Apache/

Of-course there is!
The Original SEPTUAGINT(of the Seventy)Old Testament was in fact Translated by Hebrew and Greek....
The whole Chapter is a good one,but here it is in Greek and English/
Esaias Chapter 14
12 How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent [orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth.
13 But thou saidst in thine heart, I will go up to heaven,
I will set my throne above the stars of heaven: I will sit on a lofty mount, on the lofty mountains toward the north:
14 I will go up above the clouds: I will be like the Most High.
15 But now thou shalt go down to hell, even to the foundations of the earth.
Greek///
12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωΐ ἀνατέλλων; συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη.
13 σὺ δὲ εἶπας ἐν τῇ διανοίᾳ σου· εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν ἀναβήσομαι, ἐπάνω τῶν ἀστέρων τοῦ οὐρανοῦ θήσω τὸν θρόνον μου, καθιῶ ἐν ὄρει ὑψηλῷ, ἐπὶ τὰ ὄρη τὰ ὑψηλὰ τὰ πρὸς Βορρᾶν.
14 ἀναβήσομαι ἐπάνω τῶν νεφῶν, ἔσομαι ὅμοιος τῷ ῾Υψίστῳ.
15 νῦν δὲ εἰς ᾅδην καταβήσῃ καὶ εἰς τὰ θεμέλια τῆς γῆς.

Lucifer!
There is NO mistranslation just Falsified Translations!

ICXC NIKA
helen

EDIT...BOOK OF Book of ESAIAS ~SEPTUAGINT~~~

[edit on 7/31/2009 by helen670]

lucifer is roman name for venus. if you look where it talks about lucier youwill notice it is speakin' about a babylon king. not an angel. there is no story at in hebrew that speaks about an angel being cast outta heaven.

Satan is not the "protagonist" of the Jews. Satan, to the Jews, is nothing but an angel of the Lord, one who obeys God (check out Job - Satan didn't do anything to Job without God's permission).

"Lucifer" comes from a verse in Isaiah, which is talking about a human king, not Satan. The reference to "Lucifer" compares the King of Tyre (or Tyrus) to the planet Venus - Venus is known as "Lucifer", the bringer of light. The Morning Star, that you often see just before dawn, that tells you the sun is about to rise.

The only "protagonists" the Jews have is God.

reply to post by Thurisaz


Hi Thurisaz/

Nothing like Chinese Whispers!
The BIBLE has not changed!
If you search correctly, it has always BEEN there!
As I previously said the ''Septuagint'' is that of the Seventy...That is the correct one and many others were PURPOSELY mis translated by reasons known!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by chiron613


thedevil in the bible is actually a lawyer workin' for God who test men to see if they're selfish or not.

really i believe the bible gods r nothing more than aliens. if you read the bibleyu notice god is one mean son of gun and only good guy u see is when jesus shows up. if u noticealot so called messagers ofgod in the bible lovehavn' sex with their daughters

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Apache-Yaqui]

I had the same questions when I was studying Christianity. So I'll try to sum up what "Satan" is in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Satan in Judaism is an angel of God and its task is "resistance". Satan is pretty much man's spiritual work out bench. He is considered Man's adversary, not God's. Like a rival sports team! We're one team, Satan and his helpers are the other team, and God is the stadium.

Satan in Christianity is really quite miss understood but hopefully I can explain it in a very simple way. Jesus stands at the right hand of the father, covering man's sin from the father's eyes with his sacrifice. Jesus took Satan's place...the place where Satan accused man in front of the Father. Jesus destroyed the need for a "Satan" and now does the jedi mind trick to the father and says "these are not the sinners you're looking for." Of course most Christians think of Satan in very much the same way Zoroastrians think of Ahriman...Which means they think of Satan as a slightly less powerful "god of evil".

Satan in Islam is very much like the story of Lucifer's fall in Paradise Lost. Pride overwhelmed Ilbis (Satan) when God told the angels and jinn to bow before Adam. To which Satan said "a son of flame should not bow before a son of dirt". Satan then peaced out and has been at war with God and man since before the creation of the world. Interesting that this would be the story 600 years + after Christians concocted the same myth by confusing Lucifer and Satan...

Hope that helps!

reply to post by chiron613


Hi chiron/

You should really read the WHOLE of THAT chapter!
Lucifer is SATAN...doesn't contradict when you know the Old Testament and the New Testament and read in its proper form

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Hi Thurisaz/

Nothing like Chinese Whispers!
The BIBLE has not changed!
If you search correctly, it has always BEEN there!
As I previously said the ''Septuagint'' is that of the Seventy...That is the correct one and many others were PURPOSELY mis translated by reasons known!

ICXC NIKA
helen

the bible have changed alot times. well i guess u can say it haven't change if you think the holy bible wasthe first.

reply to post by barKochba


Hi bar/

Satan is NOT replaced with the SON OF GOD!
This is NOT Christianity.
If that were True, then why does the Book of REVELATION say that
"In our age of apostasy preceding the manifestation of Antichrist,
the devil has been loosed for a time (Apoc. 20:7)
,..to gather in his hellish harvest of those souls who 'received not the love of the truth' (II Thes. 2:10).
Loosed for a time?
We understand it to mean that he gathers his people till the END of the World, when SATAN and his followers shall all go to hell.
Satan "was cast out into the earth,
and his angels were east out with him...
neither was their place found any more in heaven" (Rev. 12:7-8).
Where did they go?
According to the testimony of Scripture,
they dwell in "high places" (Eph. 6:12)

"After the death of righteous Abel,
in order that the whole human race might not spring from a wicked fratricide,
Seth was born in the place of his brother.
" For many generations his descendents avoided ail contact with the descendents of Cain so as not to be polluted by the wickedness of an evil offspring. Eventually, however, the sons of Seth, who were the 'sons of God' (Gen. 6:2)

St. Paul refers to Satan as the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph. 2:2).

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God that in due time he may exalt you.
Cast all your anxieties on him,
for he cares about you.
Be sober,
be watchful.
Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion,
seeking someone to devour.
Resist him,
firm in your faith." (In the 1st Holy Epistle of the Apostle Peter 5:6-9).

ICXC NIKA
helen

Surely Satan = Lucifer = Darth Sidious = The Dark One = Evil

Same thing, different name....

reply to post by Apache-Yaqui


Hi Apache/

That a load of rubbish!
First you say he is a lawyer(too funny)and then you say it shouldn't be believed!
Aliens?
I somehow believe ALIENS were PURPOSELY done to DISTRACT from accepting the TRUTH!
Who are you working for?
Satan is a FALLEN angel who thought he could replace God.
Well too bad that he failed , but he seems to take SLAVES very readily!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Maybe someone else can answer my questions about where Satan, Lucifer, and Hell exist exactly, whether or not its a 3D space-time environment, and whether physics would apply there or not?

Where is Hell? Where is Satan, exactly?

Originally posted by starwarp2000
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Lucifer does not exist anymore, his name was changed to Satan, and it is the same being, in both instances!!!!!!

This is also how I understood the situation. Another example of this from the bible is where Saul becomes Paul. Saul was who he was before the road to Damascus, Paul was who he became afterwards. Same deal with Lucifer becoming Satan.

bsbray, those are some interesting questions, although I don't think they necessarily pertain to this particular opinion on the subject. Starwarp is not saying that neither Lucifer nor Satan exist, he's saying Lucifer no longer exists because he became Satan.

Although for the record I believe that if Hell does exist, it is a parallel dimension and so therefore it is physical but not our plane. I don't think time exists there, or at least not in the sense it does here, but I'm not sure about quantum & newtonian physics.

Dick Cheney

Originally posted by Thurisaz
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Religion is getting more and more like chinese whispers everyday.

Once I posted a thread where I noted that I was coming to see the truth more in terms of "constellations" of related ideas rather than single "stars," to use a metaphor. At the risk of repeating that whole thread, the basic idea is that there are always going to be disagreements on the details of religious,philosophical, or "fringe" topics, while at the same time there will be basic similarities. So, for example, we are examining here the "Satan/Lucifer" constelllations of ideas. Its not like any one single star is "more Big-Dipper-ish" than the other stars in the Big Dipper constellation...rather, they all differ from each other and yet can be related in a way that a shape of sorts emerges. That's sort of how I look at this stuff. There are going to be zillions of different views on Satan and Lucifer, but hopefully some rough, "fuzzy logic" generalities can be drawn.

One thing I've wondered about..."Set" was an ancient Eqyptian god of Chaos and general no-goodnik-hijinks who killed the hero Osirus (a Jesus-like cognate...the Dying God who rises from the dead). I wonder sometimes about the closeness in pronunciation between "Set" and "Sat" and "Satan" and so forth. Or maybe its just a quincidence...

Originally posted by starwarp2000
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Lucifer was the name of one of the covering Cherubim depicted on the Ark of the Covenant. He was one of the angels that stood on either side of God's throne.

Lucifer: "Bringer of light"

Satan: "Enemy of God"

Correct me if I'm wrong but the names of the Cherubim, or Angles, on the Ark of the Covenant were Gabriel and Michael. Does this mean Lucifer was also the angle Michael?

Would it be correct to consider satan an action or descriptive word, ie verb or adverb? Satan meaning accuser, Making accusations he was then called an accuser, Lucifer the accuser or Lucifer became satan.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Dick Cheney

That doesn't work because Lucifer was one of gods beloved angles.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by Devino]

Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by Apache-Yaqui

 

Hi Apache/

That a load of rubbish!
First you say he is a lawyer(too funny)and then you say it shouldn't be believed!
Aliens?
I somehow believe ALIENS were PURPOSELY done to DISTRACT from accepting the TRUTH!
Who are you working for?
Satan is a FALLEN angel who thought he could replace God.
Well too bad that he failed , but he seems to take SLAVES very readily!

ICXC NIKA
helen

haven't you ever the old testament or study history of where satan came from?

i find it crazy that ppl claim christiny is good when that religion have destroyed my people for the past 500 years. read your bible. there is no passage tha talks about an angel called satan.

only slave is ppl who accept everything they're told instead of listenin' to reason and their hearts.