Google blocks blog exposing homosexual agenda

Whilst I don't agree with the Religious, alarmist and downright facist views on the blog they should be able to preach whatever they want.

Shame on WND for making up false headlines though but I'd expect no less from any media outlet

And just what exactly is promoting hate anyway ? Are there differing variations of hate ?

As far as I'm concerned hate is hate and while most of the time it comes from ignorance and intolerance it's a part of human nature and impossible to outlaw. And it's worrying that now we're enterting the realms of thought crimes

Originally posted by Eitimzevinten
"Gender Identity" WTF is that!? There is no such thing as a woman trapped in a mans body or vice versa, you are what you are born not what you think you were born and then subsequently go through multiple chemical and physical changes inorder to reflect. Why are these operations paid for by certain governments? It isn't hate speech, its a valid question.

To quote a stand-up comic I can't remember who made a great point: "If a man says he has a woman inside of him, nobody questions it but if I say I have napoleon inside of me, everyone thinks I'm crazy."

If someone chooses to be gay or have a surgery (thats NOT paid for by a state) to change their sex, thats their choice and I have no objection to that (them making a choice, not necessarily the choice itself). I probably make some (read: a lot of) personal choices that people frown upon and its ok for them to call me out on it because its their choice to disagree with what I choose to do. I'm free to make a choice and other people are free to criticize said choice.

Just own up that it is a choice. Thats it. Don't somehow divinely justify your choice with this "I was born....." nonsense. Thats called denial and an attempt to remove personal responsibility for said choice from the equation.

Men and Women are born to conceive children to further the existence of the species, and as such, they are wired chemically and physically to do so from birth. Thats not some religious conspiracy against your choice, its a fact. Now what those same men and women choose to do during their lives, is a choice which may or may not be influenced by chemicals in their brains.

Chemical imbalances happen to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. They make some people "unable" (by choice) to stop eating. They make others "unable" (by choice) to stop taking certain substances. And they make some people "unable" (by choice) to follow their genetics to procreate. Just because you have the genetics to be in great shape, doesn't mean you will choose to live a healthy lifestyle. Like wise, just because you are born with the capacity to concieve a child with a member of the opposite sex, does not mean you will choose to do so.

Just stop having all these parades and protests looking for people to accept your choice. They don't have to accept your personal choice if they don't want to. It isn't some kind of pseudo-racism like you are making it out to be. People can't choose their race, nor should they ever be able to.

Everyone's ancestors adapted different physical traits to cope with their living environment at the time and somehow finding someone's race to be "objectionable" is a sign of ignorance and as such, it should be condemned across the board. What you are doing, isn't an institution of the species to better its existence as racial traits are relative to the area of their origin, it is a personal choice of what you do for fun. What is wrong with some people objecting to what you do for fun?

Did you actually get to talk with people intimitely who feel this way? Or are you part of the group?

My feeling says no...and it comes across as the usual "internet tough guy"-drivel you see so much , sorry



[edit on 14-7-2009 by Mercuryae]

reply to post by Jadette


DAMN! That post is awesome! You are backing your argument up with HARDCORE SCIENTIFIC DATA!

BRAVO! I wish I could get a mod to drop some megaton applause bombs on your profile.

reply to post by Jadette


An interesting part of your linked website that you just happened to leave out:

What is the treatment? Treatment of intersex states is controversial. Traditional treatment assigns sex according to test results, the potential for the child to identify with a sex, and the ease of genital surgery to make the organs look more normal. Treatment may then include reconstructive surgery followed by hormone therapy. Babies born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia can be treated with cortisone-type drugs and sometimes surgery. The American Academy of Pediatrics states that these children can be raised successfully as members of either sex, and recommends surgery within the first 15 months of life.

That says to me that 2 of the 3 criteria for diagnosing gender in a child are subjective. That means the test results can come back male but they see obstacles to the child identifying himself as male and surgery to make him a female would be easier than leaving him a male. The fact that they can be raised successfully as either sex is misleading. The bulk of gender assigned hormones aren't released until puberty. I'll bet that this is when the vast majority of the "natural confusion" sets in.

So you take a naturally born male with male chromosomes and male parts, take off the parts and start injecting him with hormones he should not be exposed to, and are then for some reason in disbelief when this life long male is confused as to why he is wearing a dress when he's been raised to believe he's supposed to. The confusion isn't natural, it is man-made. If left alone, the child will experience male hormones as he grows up thus leaving him later in life to know whats wrong and whether to fix it or not, but don't take my word for it, your source continues....

Some people are critical of this approach, including intersex adults who were operated on as children. The remolded genitals do not function sexually and can be the source of lifelong pain. They suggest that surgery be delayed until the patient can make informed choices about surgery and intervention.

People who have actually been through this treatment are opposed to it. They say let the child live its life and then later choose what sex it wants to be. This only includes those that were operated on as children. I promise you there are those in the trans community that were born just fine one way or the other.

Here I reiterate my point of a pre-op male with a "female gender identity" who is also a "lesbian" using a woman's bathroom while trying to pick them up. What is the difference between them being a very creative straight male and the complicated weave of denial they are describing themself as?

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

Here is a cool link to a Video I think shows how it can be more than just extreme levels of creativity. I think there IS an instinctual difference between Women and Men based on more than just hormone levels. Men CAN be born with an instinct to be attracted to Men and Women CAN be born in what they would describe as a male body.

The video is pretty EPIC. Take a few minutes to watch it. I guarantee you will be pretty surprised!

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 14-7-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


It is a very interesting part, the whole issue is. But I didn't just 'happen' to leave it out. I didn't want to derail the thread entirely, only just make the point that gender is a complex issue, and point out at least one reason why.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


I've watched part 1 and 2. So there's some surprise that introducing feminine hormones that are supposed to induce feminine traits actually produced feminine traits in a male rat? It is all hormones nothing more. There's feminine straight guys and masculine straight girls. The hormones can produce their behavior and traits but they still have to choose who they are attracted to.

If its an impossibility for a child to not be born gay, whats up with those that have become ex-gay? They're gay their whole life and then one day decide they aren't. That sounds a lot like going back on a choice. It'd be no different if someone was straight their whole life and then decided to be gay. Except when that happens, "they have finally stopped living a lie".

Interesting anti-body theory about a mother and the Y chromosome in the context of a male having older brothers. Though when they throw in handedness being a factor, that tends to lean towards the idea that maybe its how the brain would interpret these hormones and maybe in fact they are predisposed to be gay unless left-handedness is caused by a sex-specific hormone. That would mean that the handedness would be dependent upon pre-natal exposure to the hormone.

Left Handedness

In 2007, researchers discovered LRRTM1, the first gene linked to increased odds of being left-handed.

A gene linked to left handedness which also comes with a significantly lower chance of being gay. Not all gay people are right handed. Infact most right handed people are not gay. I see no correlation on a genetic level.

Testosterone: Exposure to higher rates of testosterone before birth can lead to a left-handed child.[22] This is the Geschwind theory, named after the neurologist who proposed it, Norman Geschwind. It suggests that variations in levels of testosterone during pregnancy shape the development of the fetal brain.

This would mean that exposure to a male hormone before birth would make one less likely to be gay and more likely to be left handed in males. In females, there is no difference in the odds of being gay or straight despite handedness which can be caused by pre-natal exposure to a sex-specific hormone. There goes that little rat experiment.

Not all gay males are right handed and not all gay females are left-handed. The fact that testosterone causing handedness in a female cannot be linked to any predisposition to being gay would lead me to believe that even hormones are without a strong correlation.

Maybe the mother giving in to a young impressionable childs desire to have girl toys and exhibit girl behavior leads to them thinking that maybe in fact they are a girl or should express feminine traits independent of the amount of sex-specific hormones they have. Or maybe that has nothing to do with it and in fact, the child just chose to start acting like a girl and enjoys it. But then how come there are masculine gay men as well? It could be because all there hormones are in line yet they still chose to be gay for whatever reason.

If it seems like I'm going in circles, its to prove the point that they will never find strong evidence to support the idea that one is born gay. People are born straight as is their purpose as an animal being charged with the task of perpetuating the species. They can choose not to do so but this choice doesn't have any scientific reason, it is just a choice.

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


So you are saying that there is an exact middle ground of hormone level where given the exact neutral amount a Human would be attracted to both Males and Females equally or exhibit signs of femininity and masculinity equally?

And for that 20/20 video I am going to have to disagree that the parents are giving them subtle hints or suggestions as to when they pick up a G.I. Joe or Barbie which the parent is more excited about.

If anything the parent would give off negative signs to the child when the boy picked up the Barbie.

As for people becoming Ex-Gay I would have to argue the existence of Bi-Sexual humans. Many Bi-Sexuals could just as happily enjoy the company of a Male or a Female.

They are not going through Hormonal Changes when they decide which sex to have sexual relations with.

It is not like one day the Bi Sexual person has high hormone levels and wants to be with men and the next day they have low hormonal levels and decided to be with a woman.

I think they are just born with the Instinct of both sexes appealing to them.

I am big on Instinct. No one has to show you to have sex. You are born with it. I think Instinct could account for Straight/Gay/Bisexuality.

reply to post by Jadette


Be that as it may, I simply have to believe that a vast majority of this confusion is man-made with the biggest majority being chosen. There are rare extremes in these cases. Rare extremes that I believe should not be so common that large groups can assemble of people being of these extremes.

For every 1 person that might actually fall into the gender equilibrium from birth with no real clear cut one or the other, there are many more that were messed up by doctors unnecessarily and still many more than that, that simply chose to change their gender. Grouping them all together as the same "oppressed" group is devoid of any integrity in my eyes.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Eitimzevinten

 

As for people becoming Ex-Gay I would have to argue the existence of Bi-Sexual humans. Many Bi-Sexuals could just as happily enjoy the company of a Male or a Female.

They are not going through Hormonal Changes when they decide which sex to have sexual relations with.

It is not like one day the Bi Sexual person has high hormone levels and wants to be with men and the next day they have low hormonal levels and decided to be with a woman.

I'm saying hormones have nothing to do with it (as I thought was made clear by the end of my post) and I'm glad you brought attention to my next point. Bi-sexual people are the epitome of choice. They choose to be with both sexes devoid of any hormonal or gene influence. They aren't some special type of person born with attraction to both, they choose to be attracted to both. The traits they exhibit don't matter. No correlation can be made to a bi-sexual and what they do other than the context of choice. Bisexuals disprove everything about gays being born IMO.

The parents would pressure the child to do something else. How often do little kids do things just because they know their parents want otherwise? Its a self-chosen counter-culture. They don't want to be "normal" so they choose to be different.

All the statistics trying to be applied to explain gay behavior can easily and accurately be applied to human behavior in general on a larger scale if one were to simply just stop placing them in their own special category. They are human too. They can choose to be a counter-culture if for no other reason than to be different. They can make choices simply because they want to go against their parents.

They can be in denial of their behavior. Ever hear of an 800 pound man saying its "impossible" for him to stop eating. He wasn't born with food in his mouth, he decided to do that to himself and yet goes into denial followed with a victim complex. You can say its different, but it really isn't.

Some people smoke for 20 years and quit, some people smoke til they die, and some people never smoke at all. I bet when you ask them about smoking they all have different accounts about it. The one that quit says it worked because he chose to stick to it. The one that smoked til he died would tell you it was impossible for him to quit and maybe even he didn't feel like choosing to quit. The one that never smoked says that putting toxic chemicals in your body is irrational and serves no purpose so he'd never choose to. Three different choices, three different trains of thought, three different sides for anyone to defend or disagree with. This is the nature of human behavior.

Its all chosen human behavior not divinely inspired human behavior. They are animals of the species homo sapien that choose to do things just like the rest of us. Many of the things we choose to do today serve no purpose in furthering our own cause and infact, hold us back. Lets own up to the fact that we are making choices instead of somehow defending our behavior with this "I was born" nonsense. For someone chosing to be gay saying that they were born gay is the equivalent of someone who chooses to disagree with the lifestyle saying they were born to disagree with the lifestyle. I can't spell it out any clearer than that. The prosecution rests.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Jadette

 

DAMN! That post is awesome! You are backing your argument up with HARDCORE SCIENTIFIC DATA!

BRAVO! I wish I could get a mod to drop some megaton applause bombs on your profile.

I agree! Educated in science and working in the field I know for fact that gender identity is not as simple as: plumbing determines gender. So many things come to play. Thank you for doing all of the leg work to point out just a few of the conditions that can affect gender identity.

Besides what does it matter? Two consenting adults in a relationship, gasp! The blog that WND hawked (let's face it, they hawked it by getting people to look it up), spews nothing but very un-Biblical hatred. What is the point of such a blog?

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


Well from your analogy of Choice then being Straight is a choice! I HIGHLY disagree and I am willing to place money that nearly everyone in this thread would say the same thing including yourself!

I know that there was never a time in my life where I looked at a man and felt arousal or excitement. Well, maybe that one Brad Pitt calendar I saw in Walden Books that ONE time. But come on Brad Pitt is a HUNK!

Kidding.

Anyway yeah I never had to ask myself which sex interests me more. It was out the box ready made. It was not because of society pushing me towards it. It was not because I was trying to do it with my buddies as a kid and my parents corrected me.

It was not because of my parents buying me Transformers and Toy Guns. It was not because I read in a book that Girls and Boys are natural and boys and boys are not.

I could not hook up with a guy without having some serious monetary compensation. I guess you could call that a choice but we can hardly compare a million dollars for sex to a choice that does nothing as a child but bring seriously negative peer pressure and possible shunning from the family members that created you.

reply to post by emac01


I think the point of that blog is to educate us that there are people out there who have absolutely no desire to analyze questions and get opinions and information from other people.

I like to think that by people coming to ATS it is not only to provide their opinion or knowledge on a subject but to learn what other people have to share even if it goes completely against what they themselves think.

I do not post in a thread in order to prove someone wrong or to change their opinion but in the hope that someone can provide me with information or even change my ideas. That Eureka moment when you are able to look at something in a completely new way or find that you were totally wrong about something is so AWESOME!

For me it is a better drug than skydiving, sex or getting shot at.

I think that the blog is important in that it shows someone who is stuck and will never seek out more knowledge on a subject unless it reinforces their beliefs.

Not exactly what I would call someone who does not care because they obviously put A LOT of time into creating that website and maintaining it.

They are just limited to seeking knowledge for the purpose of reinforcing their belief rather than seeking knowledge to challenge their belief.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


It serves a natural purpose which can't exactly be chosen against. Its not like everyone could decide not to be straight and the species would go along without a hitch. How many times have you heard about a lesbian that once said "Oh I'm sick of men, I'm going to try women"? There are other factors involved but I maintain that the strongest correlating factor is choice.

One set of circumstances that would seem to make one man gay would also produce a straight man given the exact same circumstances. That I honestly believe. We're just going to disagree about it. That I completely agree with.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Eitimzevinten]