Ethnic mobs overrun Chinese city

reply to post by nenothtu

the guy you mention is on the plane flying back to china, i guess
firstly you believe chinese can get only one side information,
secondly you worry about the fairness of the punishment of those criminals.
right?
i suggest you learning chinese, so that you can access to china's forum and
discuess these with chinese people,
sorry for my poor english.

reply to post by gs001


You do realize that those are indigenous people and the territory China annexed a while ago don't you?

P. S. I avoid whenever possible Chinese made products.

China has had the advantage of seeing and observing Islamic clashes with other cultures, how they were handled, and the net results.

They saw how the Islamic youth in France behaved, how the government of Spain had their britches pulled down and spanked, how the Americans have done in Iraq and Afghanistan, how the Islamic baser elements have done in Pakistan and India, how the Russians dealt with Checkyans and what precipitated it.

So, apparently, they Chinese have this pretty well figured out. I promise that the Muslims won't be able to pull their crap in China. Because the Chinese - just don't give a damn - and they have little patience for this crap.

It's their problem right now.

Maybe everyone else should sit back and watch how China does it, and who knows? Might learn a thing or two.

reply to post by dooper


China wants to homogenize the region.

The communist system and Islam are not compatible. Even though Beijing has made great strides away from the little red book carriers of 30 or so years ago. The two ideologies are at complete odds with one another. Islam believes in a single god and it's not the "Party" Beijing wants everybody to trust and rely on the "Party".


You have not and will not see those types of riots in the US. Religious freedoms etc. Sure individuals will come to blows over personal beliefs but not on a mass scale. China will continue to have massive issues with this ethnic group and there will be conflict in the future and it will get worse IMO.

For as ancient as China is they'll have to learn new tricks in the 21st century. The old school of one color fits all just wont work with certain groups. They may have hidden from the worlds cultural diversity in the past well this time it's happening from the inside out. These things tend to happen when you conquers your neighbors then ignore them and then try to cover them with a blanket ideology.

Not going to work.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by gs001

 

You do realize that those are indigenous people and the territory China annexed a while ago don't you?

P. S. I avoid whenever possible Chinese made products.

who care about your avoiding whenever possible Chinese made products.
so you should buy a history book published by you own country and see whether the territory 'annexed a while ago'

doubled

[edit on 7-7-2009 by gs001]

doubled

[edit on 7-7-2009 by gs001]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by dooper

 

China wants to homogenize the region.

The communist system and Islam are not compatible. Even though Beijing has made great strides away from the little red book carriers of 30 or so years ago. The two ideologies are at complete odds with one another. Islam believes in a single god and it's not the "Party" Beijing wants everybody to trust and rely on the "Party".


You have not and will not see those types of riots in the US. Religious freedoms etc. Sure individuals will come to blows over personal beliefs but not on a mass scale. China will continue to have massive issues with this ethnic group and there will be conflict in the future and it will get worse IMO.

For as ancient as China is they'll have to learn new tricks in the 21st century. The old school of one color fits all just wont work with certain groups. They may have hidden from the worlds cultural diversity in the past well this time it's happening from the inside out. These things tend to happen when you conquers your neighbors then ignore them and then try to cover them with a blanket ideology.

Not going to work.

how to explain Islam riot in Europe which sharing the same value with you
yes, usa is lucky until now, but not for ever


[edit on 7-7-2009 by gs001]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer, I may be more colored in my opinion on this than is good for me, but there is one thing I will never, ever forget, nor will I make any assumptions to the contrary.

Islam teaches clearly that they are to fight until all the world is Islam, and everyone bows to Allah in all the world.

We've seen a resurgence of militant Islam pick up again since it's last militant expansion started in AD 632 and dropped off in AD 782.

They're just getting started again. And if China can figure out how to deal with them, fine by me.

Let them try it their way, and we can watch and see how it works.

Good for the Chinese they will take care of these Muslim extremists properly. This will also hopefully lighten the load on the American forces in Afghanistan. These Muslims extremists really are a parasite on the world and having them be attacked from several fronts will be a lot more efficient than the US trying to be the sole exterminator.

Originally posted by gs001
so you should buy a history book published by you own country and see whether the territory 'annexed a while ago'

Dont you mean East Turkestan?
Yeah some day they might just surprise you.

History of annexed

It is subdivided into Afghan Turkestan, Russian Turkestan and Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (also known as Chinese Turkestan, East Turkestan or Uyghuristan) in the People's Republic of China. The Tian Shan and Pamir ranges form a rough division between the latter two.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by gs001
reply to post by nenothtu

 

firstly you believe chinese can get only one side information,

No, I was getting at the way China, in common with several other repressive governments, tries to only allow news out which is favorable to themselves. They try to suppress the other side of the story. I was speaking about the information they 'allow' to the outside world, not about information avaliable to people inside China.

I have no idea what information is avaialable inside China, just what is available outside.

secondly you worry about the fairness of the punishment of those criminals.
right?

No, I don't care about punishments China meets out inside China, or who they define as 'criminal'. What I care about is the 'truth', and that both sides of it are made available to outsiders who care to form an opinion.

As I said, I was all for giving the Uighirs from Guantanamo to China, their homeland, to be dealt with.

sorry for my poor english.

No problem at all. I assure you that your english is better than my Chinese.

as i said in another thread Uigur or Islam are not our enemy, but the separatists are.
beside endless dispute, show you a group of pictures taken in xinjiang
when i was traveling in there
my bike was under repairing

on the street of hetian

shopping

traveling

lovely children

that is the south part of xinjiang, less developed part.
north part of xinjiang is much developed and the scenery is much better too, i'm preparing for another trip to north part of xinjiang.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by gs001]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Slayer, I may be more colored in my opinion on this than is good for me, but there is one thing I will never, ever forget, nor will I make any assumptions to the contrary.

Islam teaches clearly that they are to fight until all the world is Islam, and everyone bows to Allah in all the world.

We've seen a resurgence of militant Islam pick up again since it's last militant expansion started in AD 632 and dropped off in AD 782.

They're just getting started again. And if China can figure out how to deal with them, fine by me.

Let them try it their way, and we can watch and see how it works.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! That is one of the teachings of Islam.

Extremist elements, such as Al Qaida and their ilk, have stated (Bin Laden himself said it) that one of their goals is to re-establish the Caliphate, with a capitol in Baghdad, and spread Islam through all the world from there, until all worshipped allah, and obeyed sharia law, governed by the Caliphate. Under the Quran, Christians and Jews get a pass, as 'people of the book', and are not to be force-converted. If they elect not to convert, then they have to pay a tax called the Jizyah. Tribute. Everyone else must convert or die. Al Qaida ignores that part, and would prefer to kill us all instead. So would several other of these 'fundamentalist' islamic groups. The record shows that Mohammed himself ran more to Bin Laden's way of thinking. For example, the way he dealt with the Jewish Quraysh tribe.

I note that the Uighirs we had at Guantanamo were there because we captured them at Al Qaida training camps. That was meant to be exported to China.

Not all muslims have that mindset. Not all Uighirs have that mindset. Most muslims are still pretty excitable, though. It's just that not all of them want to take over the world.

I have no problem with China dealing with terrorists as efficiently as possible, I would just prefer them to sort the wheat from the chaff first. Not that it matters that much, since it's the Chinese's country to run, not mine.

Regardless of how they handle it, I'd like for the record to be clear and impartial, both sides presented.

Another problem here is that both sides are pretty clearly expansionist. It only really becomes my problem when it gets out of China, and I'd like to know what the record shows from when it was contained INSIDE China.

Karl the Hammer knew what to do at Tours.





[edit on 2009/7/7 by nenothtu]

Uprising in Urumqi

China's draconian policies in Xinjiang stem in part from fears that the Uighurs, a Muslim ethnic group who speak a Turkic language, want to secede from China. The province is rich in oil and gas reserves and shares a sensitive border with Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan and Russia (which has tried to foment uprisings in Xinjiang in the past). There are about 10 million Uighurs in Xinjiang.

But these fears are no excuse for China's punitive and often violent suppression of the Uighurs. Beijing has poured money into a quasimilitary conglomerate, the "Bingtuan," which runs businesses and large farms in the region. Bingtuan jobs often go to Han Chinese immigrants who receive economic incentives to move west. Meanwhile, a 2006 government policy encourages migration in the opposite direction -- i.e., getting young Uighur men and women to work in coastal factories. The program is designed to get young Uighurs to "integrate" (read: marry) into Han society.

Man I'm so TIRED of ethnic clashes involving muslims!


Theocracy should be banned on the earth and put behind us like polio!

SCENARIOS: Tension in China's restive Xinjiang

WILL MILITANTS MOUNT TERROR ATTACKS?

- Militants accused by Beijing of using terror to seek an independent state called East Turkestan could mount bombing or shooting attacks.

Xinjiang has been hit by numerous bombings and shootings over the years, including attacks in the region before and during last year's Beijing Olympics, so attacks are possible.

Originally posted by gs001
as i said in another thread Uigur or Islam are not our enemy, but the separatists are.
[edit on 7-7-2009 by gs001]

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing.
Well if you want to give us the "inside scoop" on what's really going on instead of just the official news reports, feel free to share them with us. I don't think many of us outside China feel we are getting an unbiased report of everything that's happening, but if you are able to read the blogs in Chinese you may have better insights.

Interesting how there are still people claiming and whining about the so-called "history" of to whom the land belongs. Can we get over that discussion for once and while? Maybe our Chinese ancestor from going back to as far as the Han dynasty or even earlier should have been much more brutal like the Americans & Britons and wiped out the so-called native inhabitants (Indians and Aboriginals in America&Asutralia) or so? (Do some REAL research, and stop copying the propaganda you are hearing, China started to only break up when in the end of Qing Dynasty the Empirial Colonists from Europe and the ruthless Japs started their invasions).

It is also funny not much attention by biased users on this board is dedicated to the "revenge protest" from the COMOON Han Chinese CIVILIANS who felt treated UNFAIR and being DISCRIMINATED by an "impotent" local government to "protect" them. This is up to discussion though IMHO. But truth is that there is extreme anger growing all over China and especially in the autonomous provinces among the Han Chinese, who we are more or less the victims of "positive discrimination". For example, Chinese policies are all much more favorable towards all these ethnic minorities, including exemption from all minorities for the One-Child-Policy. Difference in China is that the Han Chinese start to really get fed up, and do stand up together regardless of the ruling powers' almighty wishes and TAKE actions on their own hand. Not supportive for this, but it does show the world how much anger is among the common Han Chinese civilians who just try to have a living in their country!

The reason that these common normally trouble avoiding Han Chinese stands up against injustice for the first time concerns the Central government majorly, and is also why Hu Jintao needs to fly back. Does it make sense? And what really stirred up the passive Han Chinese to pick up any weapon to take revenge should be you and me discussing about, instead of the so-called historic claims and or so-called supressions , which is not the case in China at all!

The Muslim problem is a real issue that need a lot of attention from all corners, and for once in a while, somewhere on Earth besides the ruling powers EVEN the common people do stand up against this dangerous trend to world peace. You know what really instigated the "protest" by these muslims in Urumqi? That was a brawl in a factory in Guangdong, and the cause of this brawl is that there were these Muslims who molested Han Chinese girls, and the factory workers who were mainly Hakka stood up against these intolerable Muslims.

Indeed Islam religion and Communism do not fit each other, but even more is Han Chinese patriotism and this religion. So if the fundamentalists and extremists among these muslims really want to have a fight, we Han Chinese will just say, bring it on. Unfortunately our Central government will most likely try to pull up a good "humanitarian" face towards these messed up corrupted-muslim-invaded-Western governments and therefore hold us back on confronting these ungrateful Muslims face on.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thankd for posting this Arbitrageur. It will interesting to watch this clash of China with the Muslim ways of things. These protests might spread to other cities and will definately become a thorn on china's backside. Let's see how the authoritarian china deals with the situation. Either ways it's going to be interesting.