Off-duty officer shoots 2 in lot after Angels game

reply to post by connelly4245


I envy your courage and fear your government. Good luck to you and may no harm come your way.

You are a happy citizen and I'm sure your govenment will not fear you ... no matter who or what ideology is at the helm in your future.

I will be forever greatful that we as Americans had at one time, a Constitution and leaders who would not tolerate nor trust those who seek power over the people they serve, to enable a few over many, to make decisions that profited them power and money and while wielding the burden of great taxes to maintain control.

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
reply to post by connelly4245

 

I envy your courage and fear your government. Good luck to you and may no harm come your way.

You are a happy citizen and I'm sure your govenment will not fear you ... no matter who or what ideology is at the helm in your future.

I will be forever greatful that we as Americans had at one time, a Constitution and leaders who would not tolerate nor trust those who seek power over the people they serve, to enable a few over many, to make decisions that profited them power and money and while wielding the burden of great taxes to maintain control.

and your country is not seeking power? profit? control?

open your eyes and look at the world around you. your beloved country has many fingers in many dangerous pies, trying to gain power and money from other peoples misfortunes.

and ill have you know that scotland is the smallest greatest country in the world! lol (only people to repel the roman empire ill have you know)

2 shots? Come on now, wasn't the first shot sufficient enough of a deterrent to keep the second one from "attacking " the officer and his family? I imagine that flashing his badge and announcing himself as an officer of the law would have required too much "aim" for the badge to be sufficient. This is definitely another in a ling line of cases where law enforcement officials have stepped outside the law to handle things that pis* them off.

He was at a major event where alcohol was being served. He, and especially with a law enforcement background, should be the first one to realize that sporting events + alcohol + rowdy fans = mischievous behavior. He knew from his ample training that this was a low risk scenario...yet he acted hastily in the moment, broke the law, and will now walk down easy street to being cleared of all charges.

DISGUSTING!

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by MajesticJax
You. Are. Wrong.

Am I?

a CCW allows you to carry anywhere, UNLESS it's posted specifically.

Does it allow you to carry a firearm into said stadium? It's specifically posted you know.

• No weapons are allowed inside Angel Stadium of Anaheim.

losangeles.angels.mlb.com...



[edit on 25-6-2009 by Nutter]

Congratulations! You proved my point. Although HE was allowed being a reitred/off-duty cop.

I apologize for the long story but it is relevant.

Last year in Anaheim, on private property I had to jump start a classic car that has a louder exhaust than todays cars. I was mindfull of the time and did this before 10 at night. My neighbor next door got mad at the noise and yelled at me to shut it off. He thought he would be cute and yell it in Spanish however I could not hear him. My wife, an Egyptian/Cuban was at the end of the driveway and heard him. I am white and my wife looks exotic however we believe he thought we didn't speak Spanish. Next thing you know, he pushed my wife aside and heads up the driveway to me and the car. I still do not know what is going on but I see him push my wife and head towards me. Looking back now I believe he was headed to damage the car and me. What he was not aware of was I practice real broadsword fighting and had a forged steel sword across from me. It wasn't pretty with a welded handle but you could see it was well used. He stopped dead and switched to English "What are you going to do with that?" I replied "Take a step in the garage and find out." He then left. I gathered my wife in the garage and shut the door. She was shaken but ok. It was hot so I opened the garage back up. I had 4 APD with Glocks pointed at me.

A long story but I ended up in 'cuffs for an hour while they took witness statements about what happened. I had to listen to a lecture on deadly force and how it was never right and you should always call and wait for uniformed cops. I know the person at the game was a cop and I am not however they did not follow their own advice.

You have heard from several residents that Anaheim cops statements should be taken with a grain of salt. The whole incident and most arguments are based on what the cop said. I for one can not see that the incident started with the bottle being thrown at the cop. For all we know he could have brandished his weapon and threatened or made to feel threatened the people involved in this incident. It takes two sides to fight and you can bet there was something that happened before this. Also, the cop felt comfortable enough to shoot because he was on his home turf. This did not have to be deadly. As someone else mentioned these games get rowdy sometimes and the supposition that the people were out to kill or rape his wife or kidnap his children in a public arena like that is laughable.

On a side note, someone else mentioned that they are a retired cop and get to carry a firearm 'forever'. You are not a cop. Why do you get to carry a weapon now? Now that you are a Joe Citizen, doesn't that priviledge make you just that, a 'priviledged citizen'? Does that mean you can carry a weapon concealed and never retrain on the laws? If the law changes doesn't that make you dangerous? At a time when you are older and your reflexes are slowing at say 70, 75 or 80 years of age you can carry? I thought it was up to the county sheriff in CA.

Honestly, in the final analysis both sides were probably looking for a fight. For all we know the people might have had good reason to try to cap him if he brandished a firearm and did not show his badge or identify himself as LE. To give support for the cop or thug is premature at this point.

Edit: Forgot a sentence.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by GTORick]

reply to post by GTORick


Well spoken Rick

People just seem to turn this into wether guns are right or wrong.

anything could have happened leading up to this event

if as you say the cop is retired, hes just an average citizen in my opinion

Originally posted by alyosha1981


Ok this is just unbelieveable, this officer shoots two unarmed men after they "assulted" him following a baseball game. So apparently it's ok for cops even off duty to use firearms against others, here is another example of the "law" going to an extreme, I have in the past defended the actions of police officers in regards to issues like this but now I'm starting to see that these kind of police related incidents are increasing at alarming rates, see the article.

I usually am against the officer.. this time however I am 100% with him.

If I where walking with my family, especially small children, and someone assaulted me, hitting me in the head, threatening my families safety.. I would have absolutely no problem pulling my concealed weapon and discharging into the bastards.

The fact that he was an off-duty police officer is completely immaterial to the story. He acted as a husband and a father and had every right to discharge his weapon.

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
reply to post by connelly4245

 

I envy your courage and fear your government.

and on a lighter note

i wouldnt fear the scottish government

alex salmond.....couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Congratulations! You proved my point. Although HE was allowed being a reitred/off-duty cop.

Congratulations to you. You have just proven MY point. Had it been a regular guy, he would be sitting in jail. Thanks Jax.

reply to post by connelly4245


Thank you. I feel it is one of those things were there are two sides to the story. I have had some dealings with APD (business) and they seem to have two sides. One for Anaheim and one for tourists.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Congratulations! You proved my point. Although HE was allowed being a reitred/off-duty cop.

Congratulations to you. You have just proven MY point. Had it been a regular guy, he would be sitting in jail. Thanks Jax.

That I actually wouldn't argue against. Had this been a civilian he would be facing attempted murder charges, and would have to rely on a jury to clear him in self defense.

The officer called a dispatcher at his department and asked for help, saying two men had choked him and asked him to get away from his car, Sgt. Rick Martinez said.

The off-duty officer then shot the men with his duty weapon, Martinez said. Police did not immediately identify the officer or the shooting victims.

One man was shot in the chin and was in critical condition, the other was shot in the upper arm and in serious but stable condition.

The officer also was taken to a hospital with a head wound, but was released early Thursday, Martinez said.

Just posting more of the story, obviously doesn't sound like an over-use of force at all.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Congratulations! You proved my point. Although HE was allowed being a reitred/off-duty cop.

Congratulations to you. You have just proven MY point. Had it been a regular guy, he would be sitting in jail. Thanks Jax.

That I actually wouldn't argue against. Had this been a civilian he would be facing attempted murder charges, and would have to rely on a jury to clear him in self defense.

This has been my point all along. But, I get labeled a cop hater or thug lover for it.

Originally posted by Nutter

Congratulations to you. You have just proven MY point. Had it been a regular guy, he would be sitting in jail. Thanks Jax.

Please show me an example of a citizen being locked up for defending himself and his family using a firearm! I would like to see it....

No a NORMAL citizen as you guys put it would not be facing murder charges in this situation...again proved examples of your claims...not just blow smoke like most ATS meatheads who bash WITHOUT facts or knowledge of the incident....rather on pure hate and opinion.

[edit on 6/25/2009 by rcwj75]

reply to post by Nutter


He was right in his actions, but in all likelihood his being a cop helped him stay out of trouble.. Police protect their own, I think everyone can agree to that.

reply to post by Rockpuck


If the circumstances are as the officer alleges then I agree with his actions as well. Most of you know I am usually always against the police and use of force as well.

I would consider it extraordinarily unlucky that two guys, who happen to have a bottle, happen to pick a fight, happen across a police officer who, oh yeah, is an off duty police officer from the city they are in right now, who also has a weapon. There seem to be an awful lot of coincidences.

The officer put himself in the best light possible. Let's hear the other side of the coin before deciding.

just found this on wiki about the use of self defence

It acts to provide complete justification when the degree of violence used is comparable or proportionate to the threat faced

being hit with a bottle and shooting someone on the chin is a little DISproportionate

Link

reply to post by rcwj75


APD told me I would have gone to jail that night if I had used my sword on him. They said it didn't matter if he was attacking on my property. I don't know what to tell you; that is what they told me. Now, if that was the truth or not, I believe they would have arrested me.

reply to post by connelly4245


Disproportionate? There is no such thing... you instigate a fight with someone you loose your rights. To be honest, they are both luck the man didn't kill them. It was probably luck the man who got shot in the chin survived.

Totally legitimate shots. They'd have been totally legitimate kills, if he was a better shot.

If one of those objects had hit the officer's daughter, she probably would have died.