What they won't say about Evolution.

Originally posted by junglejake
Just did a search into geochronometers...Found some interesting results. I'm about to corroborate the results with some other sites, but this one seems to contend that evolution is the key factor in establishing the age of our planet, because every other geochronometer...well, take a look at some of their examples yourself:

Well, they didn't use radiometric dating and I doubt the validity of some of those other dating. Mountains erode and get formed all the time. You can't tell the age of the earth by the amount of erosion on current mountains. Older mountains are no longer recognizable as mountains, but may only seem hills or even large flat plains of sand. The methods used there don't even agree.

First, thanks for your comprehensive analysis of evolution, amantine, it has been very helpful. Naturally, all questions haven't been answered, so I would pose this one:

Scientists have now discovered that the decay rate of radioactive substances may not be as universally constant as had previously been assumed. The breakdown of the radioactive element is effected by high level energy emissions in the form of gamma and cosmic radiation. That means if the level of cosmic radiation were to vary in either direction in a significant way, there would be a correlating effect on the breakdown process of the atom. Studies have demonstrated that during certain periods of sunspot activity, there are increased levels of cosmic radiation. Historic records reveal that there may have been significant increases in cosmic radiation during the explosion of the Crab Nebula. We can safely agree that the assumption that radioactive breakdown has been relatively constant is not entirely unlikely, however, it should be recognized that there is a significant possibility that it has been effected at various points in earth history.

o boohoo...now i feel bad...*slaps self on the back of the hand*
bad silQ! bad!
well anyway, if u use common sense, creationism is basicly false. if any1 here can create a new universe in 7 days, i'd believe it but until then, screw creationism. embrace evolution.

P.S. I stand by what i posted earlier and am not willing to apologize for it at all.

We are a part of nature. We are a member of the animal kingdon.
I don't believe for a minute that God made all of this Earth just for us. That is arrogance.

Originally posted by amantine
Why does a discussion about evolution always also include a discussion about abiogenesis and cosmology? This is supposed to be discussion about evolution (hence the title). Abiogenesis, how life started, has nothing to do with the validity of evolution. Abiogenesis described how the lifeform got there and evolution says what happened from there. If abiogenesis is false, evolution doesn't have to be false.

No transistory fossils? The transition from reptiles to birds is described by a list of 23 species: Eoraptor, Herrerasaurus, Ceratosaurus, Allosaurus, Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx, Protarchaeopteryx, Caudipteryx, Velociraptor, Sinovenator, Beipiaosaurus, Sinornithosaurus, Microraptor, Archaeopteryx, Rahonavis, Confuciusornis, Sinornis, Patagopteryx, Hesperornis, Apsaravis, Ichthyornis, and Columba (source). That link also contains the examples from reptiles to mammals, from apes and humans and land-mammals to marine mammals, with references and examples.

Though very thin, and only a tiny shred of what is needed in order to proove anything even remotely in the vicinity of evolution theory, I'll let you go. Reptiles and birds do share many common features. But certainly not enough to draw such conclutions as the evolutionists seem to jump into the roof for.

Human evolution? Hominid species evolution with fossil examples.

How do creationists explain that species which evolution says have evolved from the same ancestor have the same retrovirus-DNA still in their DNA? The trees made with retrovirus DNA are the same as the trees made from morphological and DNA comparisons. Differences in cytochrome-DNA also show the same trees. Did God make all those things exactly so it would seem like evolution was true?

Symbiotic organisms were not symbiotic before they were together. When they started living together, they evolved to be symbiotic.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by amantine]

We also get diseases from a wide range of other creatures. Like, say, cows, pigs, dogs, birds, rats etc. This only prooves that we are all biological life forms. There is actually some mouse which has most identical-to-man genes as far as I know. Looking at the inside of a pig, I see clear similarities there too. And looking at my own species, the Giraffe, there is even a great evidence sugesting God is an extremely good commedian too when he's sketching, wearing the Creator hat on. Coomon guys. It's obvious! This place is designed. With everything in it.

Originally posted by Scat
Plus.........GASP!!!!! SHOCK!!!!!!!

ITS A THEORY. Can you say "theory," boys and girls?

Exactly a theory. And if you want to go through with theory and rationality, take a look at what is proovable in the "theory of Creationism". Nearly everything is possible to redo in a lab. All of it pretty soon. Except maybe prooving that God existed and actually did what he was supposed to have done, since he didn't leave much litter after him. The theory of evolution however, is an oxymoron, a wild shot at hitting the Pope in his balls during the Time of Enlightenment when the libraries were all filled with alternative wisdom, and "stuff the Church won't tell you". And also, the "Hey, now we can actually say what we want without being killed as a heretic! Let's say the Pope is a monkey!"

The Theory of Evolution, if it had been twise as likely, still it would be THE most unlikely thing to have happened. With the lack of intermediate evidence, it would have to end up in the same order as, who was it who said it, "the Theory of Catastrophism". Unless you're able to proove that people can scare themselves into getting some alien offspring, like say a Deer, such theories are just bogus. Most theories are just brushed away when the evidence still remains to be seen after a couple of hundred years. This theory though. Nope. It has way too much political value I guess.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
There is no reason whatever why a creator could not or would not use the same type of genetic code based on DNA for all of his created life forms. This is evidence for Intelligent design not evolution, let me explain.

Very very true. I bet there are a couple of programmers out here, who might be familiar with different languages for programming etc. Modules etc. When you create a site like, let's say ATS just to make it simple. It is based around a certain code of programming if you like a language, called php, it probably takes use of some MySQL databases etc. and a bunch of other stuff. Now find another site based on the same platform, reading below it says, Based on XMB. Most sites which are based on the XMB system are virtually the same. You can even create two identical sites, but still they would not be entirely equal and so on. To say that Man comes from monkeys simply by recognising that both humans and chimps have the same gene for kicking balls around, well, it's just silly. It's like saying Mazda RX-7 evolved from Porche 928. It's just not true other then if we talk about creative evolution, the way creators think and evolve.

Originally posted by Camelop�rdalis
We also get diseases from a wide range of other creatures. Like, say, cows, pigs, dogs, birds, rats etc. This only prooves that we are all biological life forms. There is actually some mouse which has most identical-to-man genes as far as I know. Looking at the inside of a pig, I see clear similarities there too. And looking at my own species, the Giraffe, there is even a great evidence sugesting God is an extremely good commedian too when he's sketching, wearing the Creator hat on. Coomon guys. It's obvious! This place is designed. With everything in it.

1) ur only digging urself into a hole since evolution states that all living things came from a common ancestory.
2) it's not very "obvious" when other religions beg to differ. all ur trying to do is promote ur own religion so that ur priest, clergy, cleric, whatever ur higher guy is can control us.
3) u claim that u can repeat creationism in labs. i'd love to see this
4) yes evolution is a theory but creationism is rock solid since it is written in a book and we all know that the word of "god" is infallable.
5) i wouldn't even think about listening to some1 who claims that he is a giraffe. "And looking at my own species, the Giraffe."

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by silQ]

Our arch ancestors were designed using clay models, which were later scanned into a computer, then we would get an engine similar to our gods' engines, which would later proove to be too much for us, God created us to be both male and female, the first people were malefemales, which is still evident in our DNA, if you need visual proof, lift ut your or your lover's scrotum and look, we once had ******* (I censored this since I know there are people here who.. anyway...), Adam couldn't find someone he felt compatible with, so he asked his Creator to change stuff, and God fulfilled his whishes. According to the source text it says something like: And God took a cell out of Adam, and he zipped up the shameful wound down there, and from the cell he had taken, he designed a woman. Eve was the result, sexes like the animals, not like the gods and the angels, who were hermaphrodites. After a couple of years, we lost the constant bliss which filled us with everything, whatever we wanted was fulfilled, if we said "jump" to the mightiest angel, he would jump, until we ruined it all by fooling ourselves to live by wisdom and not mercy, thereby giving birth to the recognition of good and bad wisdom, for both Adam and Eve thought: "Now I know what wisdom is! I was wise until I ate from this tree. Now I don't know anything, I just hear alot of noise in foreign tongues, and see that everyone who is not even here knows stuff I don't! I thik I'm going crazy!Help....". Then, a millennium later, our thelomeres were limited to a maximum lifespan of 120 years, which is still evident in our human genome, and after that all hell broke loose again in even pettier scales than before, but atleast we were then allowed to see in colors. Which is also still evident in our DNA.

Originally posted by silQ

Originally posted by Camelop�rdalis
We also get diseases from a wide range of other creatures. Like, say, cows, pigs, dogs, birds, rats etc. This only prooves that we are all biological life forms. There is actually some mouse which has most identical-to-man genes as far as I know. Looking at the inside of a pig, I see clear similarities there too. And looking at my own species, the Giraffe, there is even a great evidence sugesting God is an extremely good commedian too when he's sketching, wearing the Creator hat on. Coomon guys. It's obvious! This place is designed. With everything in it.

1) ur only digging urself into a hole since evolution states that all living things came from a common ancestory.
2) it's not very "obvious" when other religions beg to differ. all ur trying to do is promote ur own religion so that ur priest, clergy, cleric, whatever ur higher guy is can control us.
3) u claim that u can repeat creationism in labs. i'd love to see this

4) yes evolution is a theory but creationism is rock solid since it is written in a book and we all know that the word of "god" is infallable.
5) i wouldn't even think about listening to some1 who claims that he is a giraffe. "And looking at my own species, the Giraffe."

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by silQ]

Well, you assume too much. Common ancestry. What a nice retreat. Did you know that viruses etc. often are prime examples of intelligent design? And yes, genetic engeneering is happening in labs all over the world as we speak. And hey, looking at how the climate has changed lately, it even looks as if we are able to ajust the allover environment too. To control these things, however, needs skill and experience. I would trust God before mr. Oppenheimer or mr. Tessla. That's all. And Good Day to you!

Originally posted by Camelop�rdalis

Originally posted by silQ

Originally posted by Camelop�rdalis
We also get diseases from a wide range of other creatures. Like, say, cows, pigs, dogs, birds, rats etc. This only prooves that we are all biological life forms. There is actually some mouse which has most identical-to-man genes as far as I know. Looking at the inside of a pig, I see clear similarities there too. And looking at my own species, the Giraffe, there is even a great evidence sugesting God is an extremely good commedian too when he's sketching, wearing the Creator hat on. Coomon guys. It's obvious! This place is designed. With everything in it.

1) ur only digging urself into a hole since evolution states that all living things came from a common ancestory.
2) it's not very "obvious" when other religions beg to differ. all ur trying to do is promote ur own religion so that ur priest, clergy, cleric, whatever ur higher guy is can control us.
3) u claim that u can repeat creationism in labs. i'd love to see this

4) yes evolution is a theory but creationism is rock solid since it is written in a book and we all know that the word of "god" is infallable.
5) i wouldn't even think about listening to some1 who claims that he is a giraffe. "And looking at my own species, the Giraffe."

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by silQ]

Well, you assume too much. Common ancestry. What a nice retreat. Did you know that viruses etc. often are prime examples of intelligent design? And yes, genetic engeneering is happening in labs all over the world as we speak. And hey, looking at how the climate has changed lately, it even looks as if we are able to ajust the allover environment too. To control these things, however, needs skill and experience. I would trust God before mr. Oppenheimer or mr. Tessla. That's all. And Good Day to you!

so ur saying that genetic engineering is the same as creationism?
so therefore, u must also be saying that god had a bunch of test tubes and chemicals before he made us, right? o right! u said that we were made of clay! so how is molding clay and genetic engineering related? and common ancestory is pretty real....if u read my first post on this topic, u would realize this. finally, the climate has been changing drastically since the earth was formed......does the word "ice age" ring a bell? from there, many animals had to either evolve or die due to the fact that they couldn't adapt to the climate. and common ancestory is real....wtf do u mean by "nice retreat?" it's very real and a lot more logical than that "creating life in 7 days" crap. take ur common household bugs. use one spray, some die but some live. those that lived came from 1 ancestor who had a favorable gene that resisted the poison. eventually, a new species will be created. there was also the salamander that evolved as it migrated down to california. this was actually a recorded experiment done recently. one group of salamanders were tracked and as the moved down to california, they had to adapt. the scientists tracked their offsprings and at the end of the experiment, they had over 3 new species of salamanders who evolved from 1 species since they had to adapt to the new enviroment. creationism on the other hand would claim that a false god created the new salamanders. pffft.....BULL #!
DENY IGNORANCE, BITCH!

whatre you guys talking about? of course GOD made us and GOD made the universe. what is evolution anyway? isn't it some cartoon about this guy named darwin or something?

GOD is the master of all and the creator of all. GOD is cool because he is GOD and stuff. GOD didn't need to make no fancy-trancy stages of evolution but he probably did because hes is GOD and stuff.

why do you people think you are here? because GOD put you here because GOD felt like it because GOD is cool

excuse me as I need to thump my bible

*

[Edited on 5/4/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
whatre you guys talking about? of course GOD made us and GOD made the universe. what is evolution anyway? isn't it some cartoon about this guy named darwin or something?

GOD is the master of all and the creator of all. GOD is cool because he is GOD and stuff. GOD didn't need to make no fancy-trancy stages of evolution but he probably did because hes is GOD and stuff.

why do you people think you are here? because GOD put you here because GOD felt like it because GOD is cool

*

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!
another sad, uneducated christian junkie who follows lies instead of the one true voice: SCIENCE
open ur eyes, foo! the church is hypocritical! they preach acceptance towards others who are different but look what they did! the crusades, martin luther, galileo, copernicus, newton! all great minds oppressed by the evil cult! personally, i wouldn't trust a religion that tried to suppress the truth and lied to its followers. all religions are fake. not just christianity! and the way u guy talk about creationism makes it sound as if christianity is the only religion that is correct! there are lots of other religions out there with stories that are equally weird. this only proves that the church is self centered and only cares about itself and gaining more control.

P.S. AlnilamOmega, that picture doesn't help u either.

Originally posted by silQ

P.S. AlnilamOmega, that picture doesn't help u either.

whatre you talking about? are you kidding? im so damned hot I have chicks piling up outside of my door waiting for me to finish with this chick right here. damn im so hot; look at my bulging muscles and pecs

*



[Edited on 5/4/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega

Originally posted by silQ

P.S. AlnilamOmega, that picture doesn't help u either.

whatre you talking about? are you kidding? im so damned hot I have chicks piling up outside of my door waiting for me to finish with this chick right here. damn im so hot; look at my bulging muscles and pecs

*



[Edited on 5/4/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

i'd hit it
*fap* *fap* *fap*

Originally posted by silQ
so ur saying that genetic engineering is the same as creationism?

Well yes. Basically. Didn't you know? hehe. Good luck on your exam there sikypuss

so therefore, u must also be saying that god had a bunch of test tubes and chemicals before he made us, right?

Eh. Yes?

o right! u said that we were made of clay! so how is molding clay and genetic engineering related?

In exactly the same way clay models is a must for modern car designers. The best way to design a new carossery for a car is to model it in clay, then scan it using a decent 3D scanner, put in some parameters into the computer, like engine size, type of engine, interior measures etc, press the OK button, and there you are. All you need to do is basically to go over the CAD drawings the computer made, send it to the steelbender application tool, and you have yourself a new hood for the car. The same way we will one day be able to make new species.

and common ancestory is pretty real....

Yes, pretty real. Just about so real that it is impossible to proove it. Knowing there are so many tons of fossils pressent, but still none that could even remotely suggest anything like that, well, that's also pretty real mister. Grow up. Start thinking for yourself. Not just fart away with whatever your misguided teacher was told to teach you by his collegium, and their government. Duh?

if u read my first post on this topic, u would realize this.

What? That you're slow and unable to keep a civil discussion without attacking people for whatever religion they might follow etc.? I have learned one thing about you. You are rude and stupid. Simple as that. Can only hope that you will evolve. But I'm afraid that would need some intelligent interference, so I guess it'll have to wait until you're ready.

finally, the climate has been changing drastically since the earth was formed......does the word "ice age" ring a bell?

Yes, geologically speaking we are actually still in an ongoing ice age. Mind you.

from there, many animals had to either evolve or die due to the fact that they couldn't adapt to the climate. and common ancestory is real....wtf do u mean by "nice retreat?" it's very real and a lot more logical than that "creating life in 7 days" crap.

Real my arse. It's just about as real as the fact that you will probably be banned for what you say to the very bottom of this post.

take ur common household bugs. use one spray, some die but some live. those that lived came from 1 ancestor who had a favorable gene that resisted the poison. eventually, a new species will be created. there was also the salamander that evolved as it migrated down to california. this was actually a recorded experiment done recently. one group of salamanders were tracked and as the moved down to california, they had to adapt. the scientists tracked their offsprings and at the end of the experiment, they had over 3 new species of salamanders who evolved from 1 species since they had to adapt to the new enviroment.

Hehe. And this was proved where? I pressume it was the same team who later that year received the Nobel prize, and all those other prizes for finally being able to proove macro evolution. It has never been prooved. Atleast not without referances. What if these new bastards just were a litt�le tougher than the ones already living there? Killing off the species already living there's natural enemies? Then they could jump out of their holes, and become visible for your silly camera man and his crew from BugWatcher TV Broadcast Network.

creationism on the other hand would claim that a false god created the new salamanders. pffft.....BULL #!

DENY IGNORANCE, BITCH!

And that above would be what I was refering to a couple of incher upwards. See you!

Jeeze, SilQ, read between AlnilamOmega's lines...
"excuse me as I need to thump my bible" Erm...Why was tthat removed from your quote? Could it have been because you recognised the sarcastic character of those statements, but they didn't work for your slam on Christianity? Boy, a new low, quoting someone making fun of the Bible as being a died in the wool follower

On a more enlightening note,

Richard Leakey's '1470 Man' was variously dated using the same rocks, the same equipment and the same technicians, at both 220 million years and 2.6 million years BP. Similarly, rocks associated with Louis Leakey's 'Nutcracker Man' gave a date of 1 .75 million years, although material from the same stratum submitted to Carbon 14 dating gave an age of 10,000 years.
A single sample of rock, one of many brought back from the moon, was dated by the uranium-thorium-lead method to give results ranging from 5.4 billion years (somewhat more than the estimated age of the moon) to 28.1 billion years (half as old again as the greatest estimate of the age of the universe!). Results have been published that show that recently erupted rocks have been dated at 22 million years old by the Potassium Argon method ... The hair on a mammoth was found to be 26,000 years old while the peat in which the mammoth was preserved was measured by the same Carbon 14 technique and found to be only 5,600 years old."
Dr. D. Rosevear - Creation Science - p.92

These examples can be found all over the net where radio-dating reveals several different results (the 220 million year old came out of Cambridge(SP?)) and the one most aprozimating the current theories is chosen. A very simple google search to find these is "fossil 1470 carbon dating results". Or, of course, you can just make fun of Christians and ignore the discussion, whatever, it speaks volumes towards one's character.

In exactly the same way clay models is a must for modern car designers. The best way to design a new carossery for a car is to model it in clay, then scan it using a decent 3D scanner, put in some parameters into the computer, like engine size, type of engine, interior measures etc, press the OK button, and there you are. All you need to do is basically to go over the CAD drawings the computer made, send it to the steelbender application tool, and you have yourself a new hood for the car. The same way we will one day be able to make new species.

y the hell would god need all this? if he was "divine" he could just do it with the snap of his fingers.

Just about so real that it is impossible to proove it. Knowing there are so many tons of fossils pressent, but still none that could even remotely suggest anything like that, well, that's also pretty real mister. Grow up. Start thinking for yourself. Not just fart away with whatever your misguided teacher was told to teach you by his collegium, and their government. Duh?

im not talking about fossils. i'm talking about the real experiments done by real scientists. such as those little salamanders for example. those guys were soooo cute. and it's pretty hypocritical for u to tell me not to regurgitate what i've learned in school when ur regurgitating something that u've learned by an uneducated, ignorant priest and a 1000 year old book that was written by humans and passed on for generations which probably caused the stories in that book to change many times making it invalid as a source of truth.

you're slow and unable to keep a civil discussion without attacking people for whatever religion they might follow etc.? I have learned one thing about you. You are rude and stupid. Simple as that. Can only hope that you will evolve. But I'm afraid that would need some intelligent interference, so I guess it'll have to wait until you're ready.

o ho! who's rude and stupid now, bitch! and since u said that u hope that i evolve, u obviously don't know jack about both sides to this argument. one can't physically evolve by themselves. it takes a huge population and just one genetic variable can cause evolution. and u've just backed up my claim that the church is hypocritical in that they refuse to accept others the way they are. remember, WWJD?

geologically speaking we are actually still in an ongoing ice age. Mind you.

WTF?!!?!!? the global temperature is rising, ice caps are melting, and unless u see some glaciers in ur backyard i'd believe u.

quote:
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take ur common household bugs. use one spray, some die but some live. those that lived came from 1 ancestor who had a favorable gene that resisted the poison. eventually, a new species will be created. there was also the salamander that evolved as it migrated down to california. this was actually a recorded experiment done recently. one group of salamanders were tracked and as the moved down to california, they had to adapt. the scientists tracked their offsprings and at the end of the experiment, they had over 3 new species of salamanders who evolved from 1 species since they had to adapt to the new enviroment.
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Hehe. And this was proved where? I pressume it was the same team who later that year received the Nobel prize, and all those other prizes for finally being able to proove macro evolution. It has never been prooved. Atleast not without referances. What if these new bastards just were a litt�le tougher than the ones already living there? Killing off the species already living there's natural enemies? Then they could jump out of their holes, and become visible for your silly camera man and his crew from BugWatcher TV Broadcast Network.

this has actually been a proven fact. it works with mice, rats, bacteria, viruses, and yes....bugs.

quote:
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creationism on the other hand would claim that a false god created the new salamanders. pffft.....BULL #!
DENY IGNORANCE, BITCH!
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And that above would be what I was refering to a couple of incher upwards. See you!

if you can read this, i'm still here!

interesting online documentary on human evolution
see? im contributing!

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by silQ]

BEHAVE! If you can't debate without insults, this thread will be removed.

ok. ok. i won't call any1 a b*tch anymore. lol
but here's a link that actually contributes to this topic. it's a really cool documentary on human evolution with evidence and stuff. it's pretty cool.
The Truth