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Originally posted by easynow
could be a coincidence
How do we know what is "behind" and what is in "front" (or to any side) on that photo?
For sure it isn't.
I gave you the name of the stars. You can download and use Stellarium, is free. You have maybe the tether video. Do the homework.
That only shows in which direction the spray was directed, it does not show if that the direction of the shuttle's movement, the opposite direction or any other direction.
Originally posted by Balez
The spray pattern from the nozzle.
Starts thin and spreads out wider the longer the particles have travelled.
Originally posted by secretnasaman
reply to post by JimOberg
Jim...his is not a level playing field...you merely quote some of the players being politically correct, saying just what they are supposed to say. ...
That only shows in which direction the spray was directed, it does not show if that the direction of the shuttle's movement, the opposite direction or any other direction.
If the way the stars look on that photo is indicative of the movement of the camera during the taking of the photo, then the spraying was not "left behind by the shuttle", that was what I meant.
Jim...No they are not lying. They are stating what they know, not what they think they know. Omission of speculation. On the record! The live comments in the moment are guesses say NASA...by hard working astronauts, who suddenly are responsible for explaining away things outside the shuttle. But the reports never include those.
Originally posted by JimOberg
Originally posted by secretnasaman
reply to post by JimOberg
Jim...his is not a level playing field...you merely quote some of the players being politically correct, saying just what they are supposed to say. ...
Just to make it crystal clear -- it is your position that testimony contrary to your interpretation consists of lies. The primary witnesses are all lying. Do I interpret your words correctly?
Then why that photo shows two "tail like features", one in each direction?
Originally posted by Balez
4. You would not get a tail like feature if the shuttle was not travelling in the opposite direction.
You're right, I had not seen the full photo, only the cropped version.
Now also look at the full photo of the event, you see the ISS making a streak in the sky.
Or do you think the exposure time is set for several minutes?
Then why that photo shows two "tail like features", one in each direction?
If an astronaut throws something from the shuttle in one direction, doesn't that something move, relatively to the shuttle, as if the shuttle was stationary, because the air drag is very much reduced?
So, if the water is sprayed on a direction that is perpendicular to the one the shuttle is going, what is that one force that you talk about?
Originally posted by Balez
You have one 'force' affecting the ball. Not two.
Originally posted by secretnasaman
One astronaut, in a 'what if' interview said that although his crew once though they did see an unknown object, only some saw it...it was not there again & thus there is no way he would report a guess... because...
... CW told him it could not have been there due to the hostile conditions etc... So he saw no reason to say anything officially as he had no other proof, only an astronauts "guess" that something...might have been there.
So he would leave those type of personal observations out of any after flight reports...He said there was no point mentioning it, or he would be questioned on his ability to lead! That is an astronauts biggest fear...not to be designated OK to fly again!
Originally posted by Balez
reply to post by ArMaP
That only shows in which direction the spray was directed, it does not show if that the direction of the shuttle's movement, the opposite direction or any other direction.
Wrong.
It does show exactly that.
Ofcourse it could be sideways one way or the other.
But the particles are left behind by the shuttle.
Let's consider a few things here:
1. The spray goes one way and the shuttle the other way.
2. We get this plume 'like' tail (remind you of something perhaps?)
3. We also know what direction the shuttle is going because of the spray pattern. Why? Because the spray starts as thick and thins out and spreads out the further the shuttle has travelled from the beginning of the dump.
4. You would not get a tail like feature if the shuttle was not travelling in the opposite direction.
So, if the water is sprayed on a direction that is perpendicular to the one the shuttle is going, what is that one force that you talk about?
Originally posted by Balez
reply to post by ArMaP
So, if the water is sprayed on a direction that is perpendicular to the one the shuttle is going, what is that one force that you talk about?
Well this is my opinion... I dont think orthogonal lines is a very good way to establish a course in space from one object to another (the shuttle is not travelling in a straight line).
But the force i am speaking of is the one that gives the particles momentum.
Is it the shuttle that does that? No.
It's the force used to dump the water with preasure and controlled by valves and a nozzle that creates that force, independent of the shuttle moving or not.
If that spray is directed away from the shuttle the spray will direct the particles away from the shuttle with the force gained from the release of the valves.
You really think you know a lot more about spaceflight than it turns out you do. Please back off and learn a little more. You'll see how wrong your comments above really are.
Do you think the trails from comets show the direction they are going? Of course not. And the spray from a shuttle will be in the direction the nozzle is pointed, independent of the direction the shuttle is moving.
Once you have understood the misimpressions and errors that you have 'assumed' mistakenly, you'll be able to reach more cogent and justified conclusions and make a positive contribution here. But if you cling to your delusions, your conclusions will remain nonsensical.
Now follow this valid reasoning farther, to its end. The particles have the motion from the ejection AND the original orbital motion of the shuttle. So the plume can expand in any direction from the shuttle and move, sideways or otherwise, across the sky just like the shuttle does. And in a still image the direction of the plume provides no clue as to the direction of the shuttle.
It DOES look bizarre, to see a comet-like form crossing the sky sideways. It violates all that out eye-brain combo have learned over millions of years.
Idly speculating without such context is frustrating and usually useless.
My point being, the tail is following the comet.
Only when the comet is "inbound". On the outbound part of its orbit, the comet follows its tail.