Is this the Beginning of an new war?

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran on Monday used the platform of a United Nations conference in Geneva on combating racism to disparage Israel as a “cruel and repressive racist regime,”

Source:
www.apakistannews.com...

Any Thoughts?

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


No, doesn't look like the beginning of a new war to me, just a continuation of more of the same....

What are your views on this OP?

i think with all the stuff going on at the moment,

georgia - russia
n.korea - s.korea
iran - israel

i will be amazed if we get through this year without a full blown military conflict. Every day there is more heat building up. it has to come to a head and i would be amazed if all this was sorted out at the negotiating table.

should be by the end of this year if not probably beginning of next year. to me it seems like there speeding up the process now as he pointed out with

russia
north korea
iran n isreal also

north korea said if they pushed with the sanctions it will be a declaration of war.
im sure the same goes with russia etc. the question isnt if its going to happen, the question is when.

oh and also they just had some update on cnn where alkaieda or however u spell it just pushed into pakistan and took over some crap. so yeah this might be apart of that small ww3 seed blooming.

reply to post by grantbeed


well...both world wars had erupted during a period of economic downturn so you may be right, however the Israel / Iran backchat has been going on since I can remember. Mind you, there is another thread on here saying that Israel has redied its military for a strike against Irans's nuclear facillities soi you never know. Whether they'll do it without US's go ahead is another matter. The US is in too many different conflicts at the moment to need another distraction!

It amazes me that people do not want to hear the truth about anything. We seem to want to close our eyes and ears in order to stick to our chosen belief about anything.

That the Israeli Government has for many years acted as a “cruel and repressive racist regime” should come as no surprise to anyone who can see with their own eyes. Their actions have been deplorable, and it doesn't really matter what anyone believes about that, the facts stand on their own merit... they have been steadily destroying a whole people, a whole culture. And this is wrong from a humanitarian perspective.

The same applies to China, we all know they wreak horrible actions upon their own people yet our politicians do not take them to task for fear of upsetting them!! Since when do we turn a blind eye to bullying of any kind? Why do we allow this so we can trade with them? Why don't we be brave and tell them we will not trade with them if they do not stop killing, incarcerating for no valid reason and torturing their people.

Why do we stand back and allow the State of Israel to murder more innocents compared to combatants? Maybe Mel Gibson was right, and everyone is too scared to listen for fear of upsetting someone. Political Correctness be damned, Time for unabashed Truth. We are acting as "wimps" to these two States.

Anyone who speaks out against the actions of the Israeli Government are tarred with the brush of Anti-Semitic.

I am not Anti-Semitic. I love all people no matter what their culture. Yet I can see what they do, and I see it as so very wrong, but no one else seems to care at all... "shhh, we don't want to upset them."

No this is not the start of a new war, the wars are already being fought and they will grow. Hopefully not into another global war, although I do think it ,ust head that way. You would think we learned our lessons in the previous two already, yet, I do see some powerful countries did not learn their lessons and are again stuck in the same mired situations as 30 years ago. The only difference is this time it is not in Indo-China, it is the Middle East.





[edit on 22-4-2009 by Tayesin]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Tayesin]

eh i think its all made this way its what they want and exactly how they wanted it to go. every side thinks there good n the others r evil etc so they will continue to fight. i know a lot of people will say omfg conspiracy theorist... but in all honesty how the f*** do we get to this point in our existence? someones running # n doing it there way for total and full control just like history shows us many people did back then as well. also kinda hard to deny the existence of a couple of elitest trying to run a world when its pretty much openly discussed now. we were warned about this by even some presidents.

it's a sad day in history when we forget history exist, and the lessons that were scarred upon it.



[edit on 22-4-2009 by Reality..]

While there is no doubt in my mind that what Israel did was wrong...Iran has no need to take a nosey.
It would be a blow to me if because of that comment I am labelled as an Anti-Semetic. I tend to be a very tolerant person...
Granted, the holocaust was a terrible, terrible thing, but that is not to be used as some kind of shield. The Armenians aren't saying 'don't be mean, we've been subjected to genocide, too.'
To be honest, what we are doing is turning a blind eye to blatant, well documented agression to save face. 'We are fighting Islamic militants, so we can't appear to be on the side of the Palestinian militants...We would look like hypocrites.'
I don't think the obvious needs to be said, but they are 'calling the kettle black' Is it not true that the arms used by Israel were sold to them by the USA? For them to call an end to hostilites is a bit of a double-edged sword. They have to share some of the blame.

No. I don't believe that a new world war is a-brewing, but it is true that things are getting more volatile around the world. This is not much of a big deal. Things have always been volatile.

reply to post by Tayesin

Originally posted by Tayesin
That the Israeli Government has for many years acted as a “cruel and repressive racist regime” they have been steadily destroying a whole people, a whole culture.

They havent been destroying a whole people and culture. they have been attacking those who attack them and I will agree that they have attacked some civilan targets, but when the enemy launches an attack from a school and hold kids as hostages so they wont be attacked back, those people killed the civilans not Isreal. Does that justify Isreals attacks or make them right well, no it doesnt. What they are doing in the Gaza strip is wrong on many levels but if they wanted to destroy the people as a whole the already would have carpet bombed the place and invaded Palistine. They are both "good guys" and they are both "bad guys".

The same applies to China, we all know they wreak horrible actions upon their own people yet our politicians do not take them to task for fear of upsetting them!! Since when do we turn a blind eye to bullying of any kind? Why do we allow this so we can trade with them? Why don't we be brave and tell them we will not trade with them if they do not stop killing, incarcerating for no valid reason and torturing their people.

Here i agree with you 100%. Its not going to happen though. As long as China provides cheap goods by the tons and keeps loaning us money, of corse the US isnt going to do anything about it. Yes it is wrong, but you know as well as I do politicians have no morals, well the majority of them dont.

Political Correctness be damned, Time for unabashed Truth. We are acting as "wimps" to these two States.

Well that is just it isnt it. This new thought that every one has to be "Politicaly Correct" is the problem. As long as we are worried about stepping on everyone elses toes we just wont ever move forward.

Anyone who speaks out against the actions of the Israeli Government are tarred with the brush of Anti-Semitic.

That I dont agree with. I dont agree with every thing Isreal does, and I am a supporter of their nation. In my view you dont have to like everything they do and you have a right to your own views, but what Palistine is doing to them is just a wrong.

No this is not the start of a new war, the wars are already being fought and they will grow. Hopefully not into another global war, although I do think it ,ust head that way.

I agree with this as well. I think it is just the same I hate you, you hate me argument that has been going on there since recorded history. I for one am not worried about another "World War" beacuse the invention of the Nuclear Bomb. In my mind that is why whe havent had a World war in 50 years. And that is also why the "Cold War" was just that a cold war. Because both the United States and Russia knew the war would be pointless because both countries would have been destroyed. And a war is pointless if you destroy your self along with your enemy.

But thos are just the thoughts of a simple man, and i may be wrong but they are my thoughts.





[edit on 15amu92007 by DaleGribble]

People need to put their differences aside! War sucks! You'd think we would have learned that by now...

But it doesn't matter because: it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings, and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourselves off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what you can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defence each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, for ever, in peace.
Bill Hicks

reply to post by DaleGribble

Hi Dale,
Firstly, thanks for the opportunity to have this discussion.

They havent been destroying a whole people and culture. they have been attacking those who attack them and I will agree that they have attacked some civilan targets, but when the enemy launches an attack from a school and hold kids as hostages so they wont be attacked back, those people killed the civilans not Isreal. Does that justify Isreals attacks or make them right well, no it doesnt. What they are doing in the Gaza strip is wrong on many levels but if they wanted to destroy the people as a whole the already would have carpet bombed the place and invaded Palistine. They are both "good guys" and they are both "bad guys".

I certainly agree with the concept of both good and bad guys, as I see the Israeli people as good human beings like any other, but I see their Govenment as being bent on removing the Palestinian people's from their lands for good. And I base this on the many quotes by their Prime Minister's and Presidents since Israel became a modern State.

Let's imagine something for a minute Dale. Say that your nation has been handed over to another race and you have now become minimized with no rights. As the years go by you see that your people are being pushed further and further to the edges of this new State. You see your people being killed with U.S. supplied technologies while all you have to fight with in order to regain your country are sticks, stones, mortars, and explosives. You see your people forcibly being starved into submission and being attacked when you try to get food into the area for your family, etc.

Now ask yourself Dale, how will you fight to regain your own homeland that was taken from you without your consent?

Will you face up to rockets shot from modern helicopters using your stones? Will you throw sticks at them? Will you fire mortars off in their direction in the hope of killing as many "enemy" as possible? Will you use explosives in any way you can to get them into the "enemies" heart?

The answers of course are Yes, for the majority of people in such circumstances.

If this was happening in the U.S. the people would fight for their country with anything they can use. Which is exactly what the Palestinian people are doing as they fight to regain what is their homeland.

That Israel kills many more innocents than the Palestinians are capable of doing, should be seen as fact. Israel has the weapons to do so and they do use them to do so.

I personally despise the concept of humans killing each other for land, to me there is enough for everyone to live happily on.

But what we see is Israel doing the same thing China does in Tibet, outnumber the native population, wear them down, kill them at the slightest provocation.. which is Genocide by any other name.

Yes they could have carpet bombed the entire Palestinian people, but they cannot do so and still be seen as the good guys by the rest of the world that hangs on their every whim as God's Chosen people. And here we find the main problem behind this atrocious fighting... Israel historically sees itself as God's Chosen People and say God has provided them this land as their homeland.. historically.. and so they continue to use the same tactics as God told them too way beack when... Genocide of any opposing forces.

Put yourself into the shoes of each side and then tell me what you think about it Dale.

I am against war of any kind, between any people. Is is a waste of resources and lives. It is plainly dumb given that we hope for better in our future. Yet I cannot sit and watch what goes on and think the traditonally accepted views as they are force fed to us through the media. What Israel does to the Palestinian people is Wrong, just as what the Palestinian's do to the Israeli's is also Wrong. Yet I can see who is the worse aggressor in this mis-matched war, I can see both sides of the coin also. I choose to put my hat into the oppressed people's camp as they are the ones truly being wiped out slowly.

I wholeheartedly agree, Tayesin.

just ask yourself a couple questions and answer in honesty, and draw conclusions for yourself.

Which persons are more likely to even think of becoming a 'terrorist' ?

People who have a steady job, a decent house, a family, and the freedoms we take for granted?

Or people who had their jobs and schools destroyed or closed, along with their house, several people in every family you know including your own dead or in a foreign prison, and having to put up with checkpoints which can take hours to cross, if they are allowed to cross at all, just to get to work, or visit friends and family in other 'zones' ?

And when turning to International authoritys who have the authority to at least offer token opposition to this cleansing, you'd fall on deaf ears no matter your and your people's plight. Because your cause does not have multi-million dollar lobby's to influence any decisions, unlike Israel.

When you'd be walled into an enclave with people forced to live in cramped quarters while your lands would either be taken away or wasting away because you can't tend to them on a regular basis due to the restrictions posed on travelling to and from them, when the people you love end up in bodybags, then come back and tell us you'd be an aggressor if you'd lash out against this treatment with any means at your disposal.

If you really look at the early years of Israel, it's hard to come to any conclusion other then the same conclusion the Iranian P.M. seems to have drawn. He's exploiting it for his own reasons, but if he hadn't hit so close to the mark, he would have been laughed away, instead, the 'accused' turned tail and ran.

I do not doubt there are also things going on in Iran that are equally dispicable, such as executions of homosexuals, so it is not exactly coming from the mouth of innocence. which makes the message 'suspicious' to many people.

Still.. research history, don't just bleat the same tune the other sheep have been taught to bleat.

If this turns into a war I wouldn't see it as a new war to be honest.

To me, it started as early as the first Crusade.

And the issues are still just as clouded as they were back then..

reply to post by Tayesin


You and I could argue about this subject until the end of time and still get no where. We could argue the same points back and forth. And still neither side is right or justified in their actions. I don’t think I could sway you and I doubt you could sway me either. So I will concede the match to you, and go back to the original topic. however if you feel you must argue this point with me I have a thread on it already. here is the link. but u2u me if you post there cause i dont check it often
.
www.abovetopsecret.com...




So I am going to go back to this post I made earlier, to stay on topic.


I for one am not worried about another "World War" because the invention of the Nuclear Bomb. In my mind that is why we haven’t had a World war in 50 years. And that is also why the "Cold War" was just that a cold war. Because both the United States and Russia knew the war would be pointless because both countries would have been destroyed. And a war is pointless if you destroy your self along with your enemy

reply to post by DaleGribble


I agree with your thoughts about the fear of annihilation being a major factor in preventing a world war. It would be the more powerful motivation for sure.

Given the mindset of whoever pulls the strings, which we could call Might is Right, we would still have to consider whether that mind-set could be completed with a hand shake or with a bang. With its nature being what it is, we would have to think there is a possibility of all out warring again.

While I do not think it will happen, I do see that it can happen and at the moment everything else is up in the air about it. Governments world wide are still spending more on upgrading technologies and war machines, for what purpose?

Historically, such a build up is an indicator that we are going to war on a large scale. But perhaps this time enough of us have learned the lesson (?) and this awareness might allow us to avoid such a thing in our near future.

Lastly, I was enjoying our discussion, and didn't think it was a competitive match where one could win or lose. I certainly wasn't out to win you over to my thinking, only seeking for both of us to reach a more balanced perception. Thanks.