8 Reasons Why I DOn't Believe In God

reply to post by itinerantseeker



Do you have anything further to contribute to the discussion?

No? Then go troll somewhere else.

Originally posted by saint4God
Unfortunately I'm not sure how to articulate deduction and 'filling in the blanks' sort of reasoning any easier than the chair example. Taking 'seeing faith' as literal does make it seem oxymoronic, but understanding the metaphoric difference between thoughtless acceptance and reasonable trust shed lights like to an otherwise intangible concept.

If you have a belief based on more than JUST a desire to believe, then it is not faith by the very definition. Because faith is believing without evidence, there is NO reasonable "trust" (stop making the argument more ambiguous than it needs be).

If you have no evidence, there is no reason to believe.

Originally posted by Welfhard
Ok, on the assumption that is true, it is still indistinguishable from ALL dogma.

A personal relationship with God will distinguish what He says versus what any person says.

Which is exactly what ALL religious denominations say they have done to reach their respective conclusions. There is no objective way to tell. The principle is therefore flawed. Either God exists and is just toying with us like the cockroaches we are, or he doesn't exist and people are reaching unreasonable conclusions.

What is worse is that using this so called "personal relationship", the proof people have for one thing over another. There is no evidence to suggest such a relationship exists, so it's just faith again, and we all remember how faith is just circular logic. Because it's faith, people end up "just knowing" that their faith is confirmed by their relationship with God. All religious people do that.

It's a logical fallacy.

I have faith in God
I have faith that I know God
God, who I have faith in, confirms my faith in him.

Circular.

Sorry you feel that way. May this scenario not come to pass, I'll ask Him if He's willing to approach first.

He has to, otherwise my eternal damnation is purely his fault - which is unjust - which is apparently not something your god would do. He has to.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by saint4God


That was my whole point, depiction, each religion offers up its own notions of God and the super-natural.. I'm well aware Santa Claus is based on a real person but that real person is nothing like the silly stories made up around Santa...

The Bible and other stories are human beings coming up with their own ideas and beliefs about the unknown forces at work in the Universe. Humans have given these super-natural forces thousands of different names and invented countless religions. Even today scientists come up with similar ideas, like Dark Matter and Dark Energy which they use to explain something they don't understand. If such a being like God does exist it likely bears little if any resemblance to the preconceived notions offered by religion throughout history.

Hey, sorry for taking so long but I've been browsing through the other sections, and from time to time checking up on this thread but I've been adding more to this in microsoft word. Eventually I'm posting the finished copy on my blog..... I've seen some posts that bring up some good points that I'm definately going to have to answer. So expect another reply in a few hours...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Welfhard
Ah good ol' George Carlin. The late great.

It's always difficult to have a serious discussion when a comedian pops up. *sigh*


[edit on 9-4-2009 by saint4God]

Yeah, but a comedian with a really good F-ing POINT!

Originally posted by AlexG141989

Do I think A God Can Exist? – Yes of course I do, completely abandoning the idea wouldn’t be very smart on my part.

You are an Agnostic not an Atheist if that is the answer you are searching for?

Atheism is a religion. It is a belief that no God exists and there is not a Creator. When a person claims that it is the same as claiming to have all knowledge of everything in the Universe(s). Since no person can possibly know that, an Atheist belief is based on Faith that there is no God or Creator.

Many Agnostics identify themselves as Atheist's but when asked if they can prove their is no God or Creator they say no. If asked if they have all knowledge, they say no. That means they are in fact basing their Atheism on faith. Hence, Atheism is a religion.

It reminds of Liberals who call themselves Liberal when in fact they are not. If you want to force others to believe as you believe, you can not be Liberal. It is just a strange play of words.

85% or more of us believe in a Creator. Very few who do ever do anything wrong to others or do anything to hurt them. Yet they are persecuted by people who blame them for the acts of a few who were never people of Faith in the first place. Blaming an entire class of people for the actions of a tiny number of people who falsely claim to be one of them is dishonest to say the least.

I think in many cases the radical Atheists were abused by somebody who falsely claimed to be a Christian and for some reason they assume real Christians are like the person who abused them.

If you do harm to others, you are not a Christian, you are pretending to be Christian. If you enter that FACT into the equation it changes things does it not. The world is full of phonies pretending to be what they are not.

If a person lies to you, they are not Christian.

If a person hurts you, they are not Christian.

If a person kills and abortion MD, they are not Christian.

The churches are full of fake Christians I'm afraid so I'm not surprised so many are falsely labeling Christianity as evil.

Being a Christian is easy. You can not lie, cheat , steal, engage in a violent act other than to protect yourself our your home and country. You must be able to turn the other cheek and walk away when confronted and you must be able to control your temper. You must help others in need if you have the ability. Anyone who does not live this way is not a Christian even though they claim to be. For instance many Politicians are fake Christians.

This country was in fact founded on principals that came from the Judeo-Christian Faiths. To say otherwise means you need to study history. Read the words and writings of the Founders. They had no intention of eliminating Religion in fact they risked their own lives so they could practice their own faith without persecution.

The Constitution says the Government may not interfere with Religion or force people to belong to a particular State Sponsored Church. For some reason some Atheists like to lie about that when it suits there cause. What they are really saying is they want to control me and force their beliefs on me which is what our Founders risked their lives to escape.

Now we have a tiny minority of people who want to dictate to others what they may or may not believe and they call themselves Liberal. They want people who believe Abortion is Murder to say go ahead and kill your children its just alright with us. Why? I think because they are trying to hide their own guilt. The thought of murdering your own child sickens me and if that is wrong, I'd rather be wrong than live in a world where killing ones own children is OK.

Why don''t we do what our Founders intended and let each other live our own lives and not dictate to one another. I won't try and force you to adopt my beliefs and you do the same. I don't hate you because you don't believe and I think the world would be better if you did not hate me for my beliefs.

No real Christian has ever harmed another in the practice of their Faith. Real Christians are in fact just as angry at the phony Christians as you are. You need to separate these phonies in your thinking. We are hurt just as badly and maybe even worse than you are by these fakes.

Originally posted by kyleplatinum

Yeah, but a comedian with a really good F-ing POINT!

Are your language skills so bad you have to use the "F" word to have a conversation? Just saying. There are children on this board. Please grow up.

reply to post by AlexG141989


And yet...

If you were shagging Jenifer Hawkins you would be yelling out Oh God, Oh God

and it doesn't matter if you believe in god or not, you will still say it. Why is that?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I think in many cases the radical Atheists were abused by somebody who falsely claimed to be a Christian and for some reason they assume real Christians are like the person who abused them.

Lol. You don't know enough atheists, guy. All I have ever talked to became one after critically assessing their beliefs and realising that the circular logic of faith is a recipe for delusion. They then await evidence.

Originally posted by skeptic_al
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

And yet...

If you were shagging Jenifer Hawkins you would be yelling out Oh God, Oh God

and it doesn't matter if you believe in god or not, you will still say it. Why is that?

Because "Oh God." is tantamount to a curse word, one we learn growing up.


It annoys me when people cling to the idea of ontological proof. The word exists therefore the thing exists. Yes, clever. Just watch out for the unicorns on your way home.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Welfhard]

'God' created, then man created god.

reply to post by Daniem

Young humans have, i think, mostly experienced something "religious" or "spiritual" as you call it. (But i think it involves believeing in monsters under the bed etc) In any case, many figures out that it can be explained through science, or they realize that they have an imagination, and that it might just be IT, that played with their heads :p

I heard a fascinating explanation as to why humanity projects such imaginary beings the other day. The basic premise is that, while humanity is omnivorous, deep in our evolutionary past - we were herbivores. Even well into our omnivorous ancestors past, we were not the apex predators we are today. Indeed, we were very much prey for many of the more carnivorous animals out there.

Now, imagine a scenario. Our evolutionary ancestors are supping water from a sub-Saharan waterhole. They hear a noise they cannot readily identify. Now, there's a choice that needs to be made. A gamble. On the one hand, fleeing from the noise will cost you calories and energy, which will be wasted if there is not a predator. On the other hand, not fleeing from the noise may cost you your life if it is indeed a predator.

The choice is obvious, it's better to waste the calories on flight - rather than gamble one's life. This identification and flight response is hardwired into our brains, and as a side effect - when filtered through our higher thought processes - we may no longer sense immediate danger. However, we do still "feel" a presence, even when there is none. It's precisely because we project the presence of some watching figure that our early ancestors would flee - or why their modern descendants would feel the eyes of god upon them and in their hearts.

This isn't the complete picture, obviously, but may help to explain the "trigger" for a whole host of events - be they religious or other-worldly.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by itinerantseeker

 

Do you have anything further to contribute to the discussion?

No? Then go troll somewhere else.

Touch a nerve did I? Not trolling, just offering some constructive advice.

Psychotropic substances must of played a substantial role in man's earliest spiritual experiences.
Without our current understanding of the effect certain chemicals have on the brain and our perception , people engaged in conversations with "spirit animals", the dead ,inanimate objects and a host of deities ....... something that must of felt incredibly sacred and real to them .


I think that this was the moment the genie got out of the bottle .

One last comment before I go on my way..

It seems to come down to faith and belief."It's not about belief based on evidence but blind faith in the lord."

Sure. If you have faith in GOD, you believe in him. Like when you tell your son I believe in you boy, or I have faith in you. Isn't it kind of the same thing? If you don't believe in something, there really is no faith in that something ever being a reality. And again, can you have faith in something you don't believe in? Not true faith anyway. For instance, lets say you don't believe in the use of medicine other than natural herbs and what not. But your family persuades you to get medical treatment after you come down with cancer. So do you have faith the drugs will work when you don't believe in taking medicine as a cure? You have HOPE, but hope implies doubt in some form. If you don't have that many doubts, I'd say you have a good faith in something.



Beliefs originate from a source. You had to have something clue you to what to believe in, don't you? Unless you just believe whatever your mind can fathom. So, the bible is the most accepted form of the word of GOD. Without it, no GOD, no source, no belief, no faith. (I really doubt word of mouth would make it all this way!) I don't like the idea that I have to have faith (hope with no doubts) when the source of the faith is just as rediculous as the old roadrunner cartoons. Interesting, but not feasible to all that I've ever experienced. If I can't make myself believe it, I CANNOT have faith in it, for its is just way to doubtful to me.

Beliefs have an origin, so yes they are based on evidence of existence. You have faith in what you beleive in, so in essence that faith is also based on the same root evidence.

But hey, I could be all wrong, who knows.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Atheism is a religion. It is a belief that no God exists and there is not a Creator. When a person claims that it is the same as claiming to have all knowledge of everything in the Universe(s).

Er... no. Atheist's don't generally actively profess a non-belief. They simply say that they have not been provided with enough evidence to convince them that there is a god. Agnostics are still evaluating the evidence from a distance. To put it in contrast, using the same logic, when a person claims that they don't believe in pink flying elephants - they are really claiming to have all knowledge of everything in the universe.

Don't you see where that's faulty. Most atheists readily admit that they could be wrong about their lack of faith in a god - but they simply see no reason to suppose that they are or might be this point.



Myself, I'm closest to what one would consider a Deist. I do believe in a god or perhaps gods, and that such beings are at the very least first movers, but beyond this point, I make no firm assertions - even unto denying the omnipotence and omniscience that so many ascribe to their gods. I think that if one wishes to know their god better - the best way is to examine and understand this world, this creation. It cannot tell you anything about such beings, but can help shape perspectives by falsifying blatantly wrong assumptions about them.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Lasheic]

I do not "believe in" the "God" I was brought up under.

And yet, in as much as I consider myself a rational human being, I cannot logically deny that God, in some form/sense, Must, nevertheless, exist.

My reasoning for this conclusion in just a moment.


Although I consider the Christian bible to be little more than a collection of fables, tales, and instructive allegories, I do recognize that some profound observations can be gleened from its pages. For example, I belive that in the book of Genesis, it states that God gave unto Adam the power to Name "all the creatures of the world"..

Consider, that in many ancient cultures (and some still existant, as well) the power to name some one or some thing is tantamount to casting a "magical" spell upon that person or thing; the name given is thought to influence, and perhaps even, determine, the fate of the name's recipient.

Think of the care and consideration that soon-to-be parents still give to the naming of their child.


Is it too farfetched to suggest that this tradition, this respect for the importance or "power" of giving of a name is, in fact a vestigial, diluted- through-ritualization recognition of the simple fact that


Nothing Truly Exists In Terms of Consciousness Until It Can Be Named!.



Don't belive me? OK, trick question:

Think (conceive) of something you can neither name or describe (which is redundant, really, since describing anything is just an act of giving a name to it).

Oops! Tipped my hand! The "Trick" afterall, is that by forming a concept, any concept, in your mind, you are, in fact assigning labels, descriptions, qualities, in other words, Names to those concepts.


In short, you cannot name anything which cannot be named!


And thus, by the power of bestowing names to our world, we bring our world out of the nothingness and into Reality.



Therefore:

By giving mankind the power to "Name", God gave mankind the power to create the World, and, in fact, the power to make "God", Real.

Originally posted by Karrotz

Beliefs have an origin, so yes they are based on evidence of existence. You have faith in what you beleive in, so in essence that faith is also based on the same root evidence.
.

So does that rule apply to the terrorists belief of a bevy of virgins in heaven when they martyr themselves?

Does the Aztec faith in eating a heart will really please their god and make them a stronger warrior have basis in origin?


Does the Papua New Guniean child who is in hiding currently from his tribes belief that they have to kill him and cut out his heart because he is a sorcerer that killed his parents, rather than just a orphan?

Faith based on origin, please.

I do agree much of what the OP has stated. I do belief in the possiblity of there being a god, but I don't think it's what the religions nor it's followers think it is. I don't think it's a being, but it's just a simple word to describe the whole picture. God was created in man's image, not the other way around, and with that religion was created and then became a way to enslave people. People have put blame in god for both their triumphs and failures. People are afraid to take responsiblity for their actions themselves so they just put all the blame on some imaginary person to make themselves feel better. This has obviously led people to do what they are doing now, letting the government take care of all their problems while willingly giving away their freedoms. Very childish and stupid, but look at the god people worship, jealous, vengeful, wrathful. What kind of god is this? Why would people worship such a thing?

People are becoming more and more aware in the material sense and spiritual sense. In the material sense, this scares the government because this leads to our leaders not being needed so much anymore, which in turn, they lose their power. In the spiritual sense, religious leaders and longtime followers are scared of the fact that people are heading toward becoming spritually aware, which they lose their power because no one will need the priest or the church anymore. Why would anyone need the church, if you are spiritually content then the priest is out of work. Even though things are a bit down now, I'm positive that humanity is heading in a good direction. The old chains are breaking and people are finding their own way, it just may get a little messy for a while, but no transition is ever easy.

Top 8 . You should of made a top 1000 list becuase there are at least that many reasons not to.I do believe in a "god force" , but not as a deity.One always does what he can to build his beliefs but never to destroy them.I think this is key to finding the truth.Find all the loop holes first before you pour your total beliefs in it.

We assume many things:

We know that the universe (one of many?) is 70% invisible with dark matter. Very little is known about this 70%. How can we assume there is no higher intelligence/creator if we know so little of this darkness?

We assume that because WE as an individual have no real understanding, or connection to this higher power, that no one else does - either!

We are such an arrogant species!

We believe in evolution and yet cannot accept the premise of; "survival of the fittest." All happenstance can fall into this category of; the strongest shall survive. Perhaps this is the intent of the Gods? They need not intervene in this evolutionary plan. Let man take his course, and maybe some will 'KNOW."


The movie, "Knowing" sums it up pretty well in a science fiction format. It displays clearly that even the religious (who claim authority on God) don't GET IT!

[edit on 9-4-2009 by MatrixProphet]