Soldier Refuses To Return To Iraq For Immoral Duty

Originally posted by OKCBtard
Oh wow, you could also say people who serve fast food are increasing the Obesity rate and heart failure/slew of other medical problems caused by fatty greasy food. But hey, they are just doing their job. They get payed to do it. Once you stop doing your job, they stop paying you.

That's an absurd analogy

You know fast food is bad for you
it's up to you to eat it, no one is forcing you

It's not up to Iraqis to say hey go back army.
No it's not, that's why there are insurgents.

You know what an insurgent is?
It's a home-owner in texas, if an intruder comes into his home he gets his rifle and fights him off.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by OKCBtard
Oh wow, you could also say people who serve fast food are increasing the Obesity rate and heart failure/slew of other medical problems caused by fatty greasy food. But hey, they are just doing their job. They get payed to do it. Once you stop doing your job, they stop paying you.

That's an absurd analogy

You know fast food is bad for you
it's up to you to eat it, no one is forcing you

It's not up to Iraqis to say hey go back army.
No it's not, that's why there are insurgents.

You know what an insurgent is?
It's a home-owner in texas, if an intruder comes into his home he gets his rifle and fights him off.

That wasn't absurd. The military pays this man to do as they say, his refusal might as well be his resignation.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by OKCBtard]

I repeat my question. How is an army supposed to function if soldiers only follow the orders that suit them? It just won't work. I do believe that he has the right to think. If that is what he thinks he shouldn't have joined up and should leave at the earliest opportunity.

Obviously he has the right to think about whatever he wants. But you can not expect to follow through with what you are thinking if it contradicts your current purpose and position in society. It is his job to go to where ever the Army tells him to go, no matter how he feels or thinks.

Regardless of the individual feelings on this matter, the fact is: He signed the contract. This isn't K-Mart checkout. This is the US ARMY. There are rules in the military to deal with this particular situation, and the rules just happen to most likely be court-martial and military prison time.


USMC. U signed the M&&*&*&^&*^ Contract.

just remember one thing both of you.
There is no profit in a cure for diseases and there is no profit in ending wars.
It is ALWAYS purposely cyclical. One pill/vaccine will cause problems which will create more needs for pills. Foreign occupation will prolong war, oil will create war, war war war.

It is ONLY soldiers that can stop this war and nobody else. Because the govt. does not want it to end.
It is only the scientists that can stop corrupt pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and govt. do not want to.

It's in their hands more than anyone else.
If you are against them acting on morals and their conscience then god help us all!
Humans will destroy humanity.

Originally posted by Cauch1
I am not saying forget about people and what they think. However it is not his job to decide what is right and wrong. He has the right to think what he wants. However he does not have the right to disobey the orders he signed up to follow because he thinks they are wrong.



It is his only job as a human being to "decide" what is right and wrong for himself.
His only job.
It is his only duty to himself and the world to live by his own moral code.

The armed services should be like any other job. If you don't like it - you should be able to leave. If you don't believe in the cause - or the killing - you should be able to refrain from killing.

Come on -
This is slave mentality. You joined us - now you don't have a mind of your own?

Perhaps they need to change the rules -
And the fine print.


[edit on 26-2-2009 by spinkyboo]

I think he and many others who have done this have made a brave decision.He signed up to defend his country,not to wage wars in distant lands for corrupt individuals and their pursuit of geo-political influence.Good on him i say.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

The way AWOL Iraq vet Kyle Snyder sees it, "The GI resistance was one of the main things that ended the Vietnam war, and it's going to be a very important part of ending the one we're in now."

www.alternet.org...

If soldiers refusing to fight ended the Vietnam war, then perhaps the same mindset can end this illegal war.

I see this guy as a hero, and he is definately on the right path.

It's a shame that so many americans insult such people who have a conscience, but hey at least Canada is welcoming them right?

www.truthed.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

You're making assumptions here.
I think most Americans would sympathize with this soldier and believe he is doing what his conscience tells him to do.
We need to get out of Iraq ASAP.
I hope this soldier will simply receive an honorable discharge if he so wishes.

It would appear that I have made myself misunderstood to some mainly you ModernAcademia. I disagree with the war. I believe we should pull out of Iraq as soon as possible. I never thought we should go in there. I have always been against the war and always been for getting the troops out there better protection and such like.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE WAR IS RIGHT.

However I do think that a soldier should follow orders. I have had family members fighting in both Gulf wars. I would have thought them in the wrong if the y had disobeyed orders. I may not want them there. I may not want them to get hurt. But I do think that if you sign up you should follow orders.

reply to post by Cauch1


I haven't misuderstood you whatsover
However I believe you misunderstand yourself.

You believe you are against the war but believe troops should stay there if they are told to do so. That is a paradox in itself.

They are the only hope, they are the last line of defense against war.

I do understand that you believe the war is a sham, full of lies and is wrong. Yes I understand that.

The truth is the guy is scared and rightfully so, but he signed up for it what did he think being a soldier was? His job is to fight he dosnt get to choose where and when if he wants the war to stop mabey he should pettiton Obama, but a firefighter dosnt get to choose which fires he puts out, and a soldier dosent get to choose which war he fights in. If someone told him he had a choice then he was lied to like i siad he should of read the fine print.

Originally posted by Cauch1

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
ummmm this isn't just a factory job man

the war is bankrupting the country, killing innocent people and defaming your horribly in-debt nation.

Yes this is true. However he did sign up to do what he is told and fight who he is told to fight. What he thinks is neither here nor there.

It is though, if he signed thinking we had a terrorist attack in the states and Iraq was one of two countries responsible for it. Which is what we were told over and over again.

Especially since the media and all the newspapers jumped on the band-wagon beating the war drums every chance they got.

I actually was following the situation in Iraq for many years, and I didn't believe they had any WMD, because I was informed about the situation.

But lets ask this question, lets say you work in a field where there is a possibility that any company you work for might support the use of or use animals to test their products. If you don't feel animal testing is right, you might only take a job where they don't participate in animal testing.

So, lets say you apply for a job, you ask the question if they use animal testing, and they tell you no, so you sign a contract obligating you to work for a specified period of time. Later, you find out the company DOES use animal testing. What would you do, if you were lied to......

Good for him, I would like to shake this guys hand for standing up for what he believes in, instead of being a volunteered pawn like so many others. Ugh, worst thing is my friends going to Iraq for four years

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by sos37

It wasn't at all wrong, thank you very much. Iraqi people are now able to cast votes and elect their own leaders. They have an army that is proving it can handle most situations now with less of our help each day. A terrible dictator, his horrible sons and the Baathist party that supported him are gone.

In their place exists leaders placed there by the invading force.
Dead people cannot vote and i'm pretty sure enforcing democracy down the barrel of a gun is verging on tyranny.

Oh, whatever. Barrel of a gun, my a$$! I guess you missed pictures like these where the Iraqi people were clearly proud to be showing their purple fingers, participating in their first democracy-election.

But I'm sure as far as you're concerned there's someone off camera holding a gun forcing them to smile, right?

Originally posted by Solomons
I think he and many others who have done this have made a brave decision.He signed up to defend his country,not to wage wars in distant lands for corrupt individuals and their pursuit of geo-political influence.Good on him i say.

Incorrect. When you enlist in any military branch you must take the Oath of Enlistment. Federal law requires it.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

By refusing his President's order he is violating his oath and is subject to courtmartial.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by sos37]

Originally posted by sos37

Oh, whatever. Barrel of a gun, my a$$! I guess you missed pictures like these where the Iraqi people were clearly proud to be showing their purple fingers, participating in their first democracy-election.

lol oh please
there's even bush supporters what's your point

why don't you speak of a reporter throwing a shoe a bush
or....insurgents fighting against invaders

Do you even have any idea of the opposition holding a majority opinion in almost evey country on the planet being against the war in Iraq?

and in response you post very well photographed pics of iraqis with purple fingers.

LMAO
what a joke.

Congrats on supporting an illegal war that took so much money out of the pockets of you, your kids and neighbours.

Like they say, there's a sucker born every minute.

For anyone arguing "he signed a contract and he must do his job" i suggest you take a look at how war really looks like, and then think about the REAL reason they are waging war (it sure ain't for protecting people or human freedom or anything like that..).

DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE MINOR OF AGE



[edit on 26-2-2009 by vasaga]

Originally posted by vasaga

[edit on 26-2-2009 by vasaga]

I don't think i've ever seen anything as poignant in my whole entire life
I always try to empathize before understanding

my empathy was worth nothing compared to this reality!

shame on so many in this thread
shame!

We currently have an all volunteer Military. The Military exists for only one purpose and everyone who joins knows exactly what that is.

Vietnam was entirely different because many were Drafted. They had no choice. To even pretend to compare the two is ludicrous.

If you must bring up Vietnam, the result of our bailing out on a War we could have won was the slaughter of millions. I protested against it. I was wrong. I grew up and now see it without the clouded mind of the drug saturated individual I was.

As to this Soldier, he knew when he signed up exactly what would happen. Where was his conscience then I wonder? Obviously a phony argument without merit.

I do agree that he should not be sent back after he has done this, but he should pay a penalty for it.

I don't think it is a mystery that people who want to get out can do so through means other than this. Quitting is the easiest thing in the world. Living up to ones commitments is hard. This person is an emotional child at best.

When are people going to get over the fact that we won this one? Going in the first place was wrong, but not as wrong as giving up now would be. The Mexican Border is now more dangerous than Iraq and I wonder if this kid would hesitate to go into Mexico on a drunk? Probably not.