Octuplets' Mother 'Obsessed with Children', Wanted 'One More Girl'

reply to post by space cadet


I would also like to state that the law in my state and county would only allow 4 dogs per home, because any more than that and they say it makes you an ineffective owner, unable to distribute your time and efforts to properly care for more than that. Growing up in a large family myself I have to say that you DO tend to get lost in the crowd, not forgotten, but there just isn't time or room for seeing that each individual child gets the attention and praise they deserve, resulting in all kinds of invalid feelings and fears throughout life, I really feel for these kids, this mother is so selfish and self absorbed.

reply to post by Annee


My problem with this woman is her sheer selfishness in proceeding as she did. She has endangered the reproductive rights of many couples seeking help with infertility.

Both ASRM and SART have guidelines that are supposed to be followed. Unfortunately, you don't have to be board certified (or grandfathered) as a Reproductive Endocrinologist to deal with fertility. A GP, midwife, or obstetrics/gynecology generalist can and do prescribe these medications without any serious thought all the time. That is a bigger part of the problem around higher order multiples than many realize.

The thing is, in a woman her age, with a supposedly proven successful history, no more than 2 embryos should have been transferred - if what we have heard is true. Because of the lack of reliable information, she has allowed fear-mongerers and worry-trolls more ammunition to limit valid choices in some very real cases where it would be appropriate to transfer more embryos.

I'm not 100% convinced this was IVF since most people not immediately involved in trying to conceive do not know the difference between an IUI, IVF, and clomid - even many patients don't know the difference! There is a tendency to lump it all together in people's mind. No ethical reproductive endocrinologist would be party to transferring 8 embryos into a woman with her history.

I do not think this woman should profit from what she has done. Personally, I think she should be under police investigation for child endangerment if it is true she had them thaw and transfer 8 embryos.

I know I tend to be harsh, but this is so extreme, this woman belongs in a mental health facility.

What if this woman was hoping to have these children under the radar, and sell the babies off? The grandmother seems pretty clueless to whats going on, in one of the articles the mother was quoted as saying she did this because she was paid to do it.

Another though it maybe this was done on purpose to try and push a new T.V. reality show, this is in the Los angles area.

Its strange how she waited 3 months and ended up in a kaiser, Kaiser being an HMO, would they have taken her on as a new patient if she was already carrying these babies? Wouldn't that be considered pre-existing conditions? Kaiser is pretty strict on who they accept outside of employer coverage.

This whole situation stinks of wrongness. The mother is going to college, so is she just going to have poor grandma take care of 14 babies?? Or like I mentioned before, maybe they were never intended to stay at home.

Maybe some black market stuff going on here.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I just don't understand someone making ANY kind of link between this "baby addict" and Angelina Jolie.

I brought it up so of course you can't see it.

It's rather obvious. Both are baby collectors. One can afford it and one can't. But both are baby collectors. Angelina has said in the press that she wants a dozen children from different countries. That's baby collecting.

Oh .. and her twins were an 'on purpose' multiple birth. They did it InVitro and tried for twins on purpose. She has been quoted as saying she'd do it again.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I brought it up so of course you can't see it.

It's rather obvious. Both are baby collectors. One can afford it and one can't. But both are baby collectors. Angelina has said in the press that she wants a dozen children from different countries. That's baby collecting.

Oh .. and her twins were an 'on purpose' multiple birth. They did it InVitro and tried for twins on purpose. She has been quoted as saying she'd do it again.

I actually have to agree that if you are going to label some one a "baby collector" or having an "addiction to babies" then you have to use the bar without discretion. And FF's comparison - on those grounds alone - is valid.

As I responded to a poster earlier in the thread, no one has the right to determine how many children a person should want and have. Now that statement is about desire and having babies. I'm not ready to charge any person who has more than X number of children with being addicted, mentally ill or anything. I just don't get them!

SO as long as, that person can care for those children at a level of care that is healthy and safe, no one INCLUDING the state has any say You can an opinion, but you don't get a say. BUT, when your actions become irresponsible (and this applies to whether you want to have that many, or religious beliefs or whatever) and you're having babies on the public's bill...the comparison with Jolie falls off the table. Because Jolie has the means, she aint getting paid by me to have her babies, and I'm not feeding them and paying their medical bills.

reply to post by Valhall


Absolutely. I agree with you.

As i said - both are baby collectors. One can afford it. One can't.
But both are definately baby collectors. It's easy to see the comparison.

I still don't understand what doctor would do this. A single mother who already has 6 children all under the age of 8 ... and she wants 8 more kids. I think the medical profession should review his license. Something smells fishy ....

Well it seems she really can afford it, the bidding war on the story is currently at $3 million. AND afterwards she is working on her own reality show as a "child care expert".

Which way to the nearest fertility clinic - I am having 14 embryos implanted. I don't even care whose. I mean with my own show and $3 million dollars I don't even need to speak to the kids when we're not on camera, I can get nannies.

Wait wait I have this all worked out. I wouldn't want to lose my figure by having so many babies myself, those tretchmarks would be awful, and I wouldn't want people to say I risked endangering any of the precious babies, that would be bad for my reality show, so what I will do is:

1) Take fertility pills, then go to a clinic have the necessary 20 or what embryos created;
2) Go to India and have two implanted into 10 Indian surrogate mothers on the same day - much cheaper than doing it in the States - also called outsourcing;
3) When the babies are born collect them all and pose for the cameras because I am so incredibly fertile and the world will love me and my children!!

Yeah ME!!!

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


See now who are you or me to say what we can and should be able to do with our bodies? How are you going to sit there and compare the moral fiber or standards Dr. Kevorkian had with his patients to the Dr. who conducted the procedure on the woman in question? No where near comparable for comparisons! Sure the implantation of many embryos directly related the amount born but I stand by my original explanation that the success rate is usually lower and so more embryos each attempt are typically how they counter the low success rate. I think that plenty of families have more then their means provide for and this is a likely extra exaggerated case of it. Its not likely she actually wanted 8 kids people. I think she found out and she just figured riding it out was the only option. Its not exactly the same but if my wife and I found out we were going to have another baby, even if having one would very much kill our financial situations health, we wouldn't and couldn't end the pregnancy, thats a life I am responsible for and no amount of theoreticals will change that. Considering that, maybe being a mom already she felt that even though she was carrying more than she ever wanted originally or expected she was still responsible for every one of them. No family is ideal in situational circumstance but you deal with what you got and thats what she is doing. You know this is what I would be willing to spend my taxes on as oppose to a war I don't agree with, bailing out fat cat C.E.O.'s, or Aide to countries far away when we have plenty of problems right here that need fixing. I'm not supporting any concept past taking care of the children because they're already here and giving her some breathing room to do the job she darn well better as a mom.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Valhall

 

Absolutely. I agree with you.

As i said - both are baby collectors. One can afford it. One can't.
But both are definately baby collectors. It's easy to see the comparison.

I still don't understand what doctor would do this. A single mother who already has 6 children all under the age of 8 ... and she wants 8 more kids. I think the medical profession should review his license. Something smells fishy ....

My wife is a nurse and in the training she underwent to become one, specifically it was explained that as a medical practitioner, your moral opinions, good or bad are NOT relevant. His job was done correctly and to the standard which he is expected to observe. His moral opinions may not be of the approving sort for her choices but they don't matter. We need to remember that medical doctors are just that....MEDICAL doctors, they do the job on the body they are expected to and they are NOT accountable for anything more than that.

This makes me sick!
It seems she had a motive to me.
Become famous for something controversial.
Receiving fertility drugs for what?!
She had 6 kids already.
Too bad we can't use the "C" word here.

Perhaps she should be a part of K.N.O.T.T.E.D
(Knowledge Now Of Tube Tying Educational Department)

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx

My wife is a nurse and in the training she underwent to become one, specifically it was explained that as a medical practitioner, your moral opinions, good or bad are NOT relevant. His job was done correctly and to the standard which he is expected to observe. His moral opinions may not be of the approving sort for her choices but they don't matter. We need to remember that medical doctors are just that....MEDICAL doctors, they do the job on the body they are expected to and they are NOT accountable for anything more than that.

What UTTER bullcrap.

He wasn't treating a medical condition. LMAO. She wasn't infertile! He was conducting business. Holier than thou crap.

This is an elective procedure. It's an unnecessary procedure from a health standpoint. This is the equivalent of me walking into a plastic surgeon's office and saying not only do I want GG size breasts - I'd like 4 of them please!

If that doctor looks at me and says - customer's always right!!!! - he is NOT following some imaginary higher calling and conducting himself in a manner laid out by the AMA for God's sake...he's making a buck! (and a couple of pair of bodacious tatas).

Just give it up.


[edit on 2-1-2009 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Lol. I think religion is used as a cover for a wide variety of mental disorders, so you will get no disagreement from me there.

Mind you I am not saying ALL religious people are mentally ill, those who wish to flame.

And, I have been scouring the internet for more information on her financial status. Although there are many, many people claiming that the taxpayers are going to have to foot the bill for this, I have not found one credible source who says that any tax money has been used to date to pay for her or her childbearing business.

So far she is just bankrupting her parents. And it appears that her embryo transferring adventures have something to do with "someone paying her" to do it. Her mother is quoted as saying something like that but no details are given. It sounds really weird and convoluted, and has something to do with the fact that she apparently worked at some fertility clinic. Possibly as an egg donor as someone else said.

I just wanted to say that it does NOT appear that she is sponging off anyone other than her parents at this point. When I first read the story and the surrounding comments both here and on some of the linked sites, I believed she was using tax dollars for this and I wanted to retract that now that I have taken the time to do some fact checking.

I think that this is worth taking note of for everyone participating in the thread. I still see some making this a very prominent point of contention. Duly noted Illusions

Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by nerbot

 

More interesting is the woman and her family are from Iraq. Is this Iraq's revenge on Americans, or some way of replacing the thousands killed in Iraq through this breeding machine?

No need to get inappropriate but I wonder how many stitches she's had so far.

Honestly the human body takes alot of stress to keep producing over and over again it almost reminds me of a Mormon mindset.

Why bring children into this world anyways, does she realize what the *SNIP* is going on.

My 2 cents

This is my 4th line.
And teh 5th.

-Psycho

reply to post by Averysmallfoxx


Are you saying that as a "professional student" she was supporting herself and six children and had the approximately $60 000 for the "transfer" of embryos and the $900 000 for the medical expenses? Can I get a place at that college? Most colleges expect you to pay or give you a scholarship to pay for tuition ( she was working on a Masters degree) but even that has dried up since she hasn't been in college for many months now.

Let's be fair sure, but also realistic. her father is going to Iraq so his insane daughter can "choose" to have 8 more illegitmate fatherless children, because "she loves children".

When I first read about this story there was no mention of her being single and unemployed and I was still angry at her. She already had six kids and wanted another, and I thought "Why didn't she adopt?". There are so many kids that need a good home. Now I learn that she is single, unemployed and likely mentally unstable; and I'm furious with her.

Originally posted by sheila947Maybe some black market stuff going on here.

Well she KNEW she had 8 embryo's inside of her, and if she were planning to try to sell them that was really stupid.

These kids could easily have "serious developmental delays". Last time I checked there wasn't a big black market demand for messed up babies with long term health problems.

I just wonder who is paying for this? Who paid for the implantation? The government can't refuse to support existing children no matter how many a crazy person has (one can't let the kids starve) but the gov could certainly refuse to pay for more IVF or whatever she did.


[edit on 1-2-2009 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Valhall


Wow, elective or not, this guy saying no is ridiculous, he runs a buisness and saying no just means someone else would take her business. Maybe that seems wrong to you while your trying to defend your point but very few elective procedures actually require a pysch eval....the main one being sex changes. These doctors, like I said don't have any requirement to evaluate their customers before conducting the procedure and why would they otherwise? She can be refused service but don't you think she will just find some other doctor to do it in that event? Think about this....is abortion an elective procedure? In most circumstances I would be lead to believe it is (barring emergency circumstances). Yet those doctors who we might call baby killers are just doing their job right? No one wants them to lose their license right?

Originally posted by Annee
I think I'll wait for all the real Facts.

In the mean time - I believe these children (all of them) are loved.

It isn't a loving act to fill your household up with in vitro children who do not have parents with time, energy and financial stability to give to their growth.
It is an irresponsible act.

reply to post by NoArmsJames


I agree with you. I think what she is doing is selfish and irresponsible no matter who is paying for it. I am against any one person willfully bringing that many biological children into this world no matter what their financial status. I personally find the mother of 18 who is splashed all over the media and having the children "naturally and in a marriage" equally disgusting. And for the same reason you state.

There are tons of unwanted children in the world, and in America. Having been raised in the foster care system myself I know all that "its so hard to get a non-biological child) stuff is hogwash. It isnt hard. Whats hard is to get a perfect infant that you can adopt. They let some really dysfunctional people take on foster children, and pay them to mistreat us to boot.

As I see it, most of these people who "just love children" really dont love children. They love the idea of a child that they can mold into whatever they want. Hence their fascination with infants. Fostering children is difficult. You often get kids that have been sorely mistreated by their own parents, the system, and the foster parents who do the job for a quick buck and their own personal servants. But if you LOVE children, why wouldnt you love offering a decent life to someone who through no fault of their own has been mistreated and used poorly by the adults they were unlucky enough to come into contact with til now? I will tell you why I think that is, because the hard work of child rearing is too apparent then, when the poor child has been damaged emotionally. It doesnt fit the "little dolly dress up" fantasy of child rearing that so many seem to hold.

In my opinion, those sorts of people dont love children. They love the fantasy of how a child will enhance them. They ask not what they can do for a child, but what a child can do for them. (To borrow and corrupt a phrase)

Originally posted by spinkyboo

Originally posted by Annee
I think I'll wait for all the real Facts.

In the mean time - I believe these children (all of them) are loved.

It isn't a loving act to fill your household up with in vitro children who do not have parents with time, energy and financial stability to give to their growth.
It is an irresponsible act.

No family is ideal and that won't change, no one is perfect. I'd rather a woman who really likes children have this many than a woman who is resentful and dangerously bitter about the responsibility such a large amount of babies demands...Just take a look around the link I am posting, there is a shocking amount of disregard for human life and rights of children on that site. It might give some contrast of interest.

Parents Behaving Badly