Warming in Antarctica Looks Certain

Let’s not argue over who or what is causing it or what it’s called, its happening!

Warming in Antarctica Looks Certain

That is the conclusion of scientists analyzing half a century of temperatures on the continent, and the findings may help resolve a climate enigma at the bottom of the planet.

While some regions of Antarctica, particularly the peninsula the stretches toward South America, have warmed rapidly in recent decades, weather stations including the one at the South Pole have recorded a cooling trend. That ran counter to the forecasts of computer climate models, and global warming skeptics have pointed to Antarctica in questioning the reliability of the models.

Unlike other studies that were done over a period of a few weeks/months or years this one seems to be the big dog report.

Call it Climate change or global warming or what have you. Something is a foot whether it is man made or an Earth cycle things are happening whether we admit to them or not.

I was never afraid of the North Pole melting that would not make the ocean levels raise but the South Pole is a whole other ball game.

Because of the climate record is still short, more work needs to be done to determine how much of the warming results from natural climate swings and how much from the warming effects of carbon dioxide released by the burning of fossil fuels, Dr. Steig said

“Obviously the situation is complex, resulting from a combination of man-made factors and natural variability,” said Michael Oppenheimer, a professor of geosciences at Princeton, who was not involved in the research. “But the idea of a long-term cooling is pretty clearly debunked.”

American Meteorological Society Panel on Arctic and Antarctic Melting

Google Video Link

I think we need to stop arguing whether this is a man made problem or a natural cycle of the Earth. and what we call it Climate Change or global warming is not the issue!
The Fact is its happening.

This panel of climate scientists describes the state of scientific knowledge regarding changes in the global climate system, the role of humans in causing these changes, and the likely impacts on earth's ecosystems. Panelists include:Inez Fung, University of California at Berkeley and LBNL; John Harte, University of California at Berkeley; Xiangming Xiao, University of New Hampshire. The China-U.S. Climate Change Forum was organized by the Berkeley China Initiative, which is forging closer ties between U.C. Berkeley and China by bringing together key experts on important international and bilateral issues. Growing concern over climate change makes this topic an obvious choice for the first of this series of annual events. This panel will highlight the mutual vulnerability of China and the U.S. to climate change, and the indispensable role of scientific research in understanding the problem and developing solutions. The Forum is co-sponsored by Peking University's College of Environmental Sciences and UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Journalism, International and Area Studies, Institute of East Asian Studies, Center for Chinese Studies, Energy and Resources Group, and Berkeley Institute of the Environment. Financial sponsors include the Richard and Rhoda Goldman Fund, the Energy Foundation, and the Hewlett Foundation.

China-U.S. Climate Change Forum: What's at Risk? Climate Model Predict...


[edit on 22-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

I have to say it is the "Dying Gasp" for the Global warming hoaxers.

Since the temps at the "stations" are dropping, they have to grasp at some computer models to keep up the GW doom.

Sorry, not buying it.

From the source you posted: (Read it closely)

weather stations including the one at the South Pole have recorded a cooling trend. That ran counter to the forecasts of computer climate models, and global warming skeptics have pointed to Antarctica in questioning the reliability of the models.

So, the weather stations all record a cooling trend... oh crap, how do we keep up the global warming hoax if all the recording stations are recording cooling???? I know, another computer model!!

In the new study, scientists took into account satellite measurements to interpolate temperatures in the vast areas between the sparse weather stations.

What does INTERPOLATE mean??

in⋅ter⋅po⋅late
   /ɪnˈtɜrpəˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tur-puh-leyt] Show IPA Pronunciation
verb, -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
–verb (used with object)
1. to introduce (something additional or extraneous) between other things or parts; interject; interpose; intercalate.
2. Mathematics. to insert, estimate, or find an intermediate term in (a sequence).
3. to alter (a text) by the insertion of new matter, esp. deceptively or without authorization



So, I would take this for what it is worth.... measuring stations are showing drops but that result is NOT WANTED so they use some computer models to ESTIMATE to get the result they want.

Blah



[edit on 21-1-2009 by infolurker]

Good thread, good thread!

While I personally dont believe in global warming. I do believe in climate change. I know that sounds odd, but they are different things. Let's as a race join up and fight the changes! I know I do my part.

I didnt vote in the last election but Obama seems to have this stuff together. Guess his Change is gonna come at some point.

Interesting that the opposite is happening up North. Some of our Glaciers have reportedly stopped receding and started growing. We had one of the coldest summers on record and just came out of the longest cold spell below zero in our recorded history. The Ice in the Arctic was reported to be back to pre 1980 levels before the historic cold hit.

What this tells me is that they do not know what is going on and never did. Shame to ruin the worlds economy and starve millions without even knowing what is truly going on.

I just wish they would show some kind of character by going after China and its constant giant brown cloud which should be their biggest worry. China totally rejected the idea of using modern power plants. We keep doing a better job and China does not care except in their propaganda. They have access to the same technology we do and rejected it.

The article just like the "Estimated" results are bunk.

Trying to use little known vocabulary words creatively to cover up exactly how their so called "Results" were derived.

The stations all record cooling so let's "Estimate" some temperatures between stations and claim that where there are no measurements taken that it MUST be warmer there.

Bunk

I remember when I was talking an environmental science class and the teacher was talking about ice melting and said that nothing would happen if the arctic would melt but if Antarctica melted that's a different story and it would cause
global flooding; Think of Antarctica as a ice cube at the bottom of a cup what happens what it melts the top overflows where as if there was ice at the top and melted it wouldn't overflow. It would typing of flooding you see in the 2012 movie trailer

reply to post by infolurker


Thanks for your reply please post some links thanks supporting your external sources please.



[edit on 21-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I just wish they would show some kind of character by going after China and its constant giant brown cloud which should be their biggest worry. China totally rejected the idea of using modern power plants. We keep doing a better job and China does not care except in their propaganda. They have access to the same technology we do and rejected it.

I agree with the whole China deal.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do our part.

The source in my previous post was your link on the story. The external source was the story posted. (Just have to read it carefully to see the little word games played... no proof of higher temps.. just speculation and estimates).


The usual smoke and mirrors game that the carbon tax overlords play to "suggest" scientific evidence that isn't real.


www.nytimes.com...

INTERPOLATE definition was from dictionary.com




[edit on 21-1-2009 by infolurker]

Global Warming Naysayers are like the guys in the UFO forum that put everything down to Chinese lanterns. Big Oil disinformation has poisoned their minds. The science is clear: it is happening.

and I also think it is important once again to point out to our northern hemispere friends, It is summer down here, so this is the time the melting occurs.

4.5 billion year old planet and we have experts who can say what the climate is doing because of the 50 years of research.
They can't even predict the weather for tomorrow, let alone next 20 years.

reply to post by rizla


You suckers who would follow hype to accept carbon taxes / cap & trade that will not take a single ton of carbon out of the atmosphere but would make a bunch of paper traders rich are the true deniers.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Now that we are cooling, the scamers are now trying to convince you that Co2 will now cause an Ice age:

www.telegraph.co.uk...


So, hot, cold, warm, wet, dry, day, night, clouds, no clouds, whatever, wind, shine, rain, snow, (anything and everything) IS caused by CO2 and our only hope is to agree and pay, pay, pay to make these guys rich, richer, richest.

(Just like you said... the science that CO2 Causes Everything is Clear... that's why they falsify data all the time ie Dr. Hansen THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR sounds better and more definitive than IT'S STILL AN UNPROVEN THEORY... another vocabulary trick of those who would try to make you believe that there is 100% scientific consensus when there is not)


Saying the "science" instead of "we believe our theory is correct tries to suggest that it is a proven fact.

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims
epw.senate.gov...

Every time a snag in their theory comes up, they scramble for an explanation to support C02 cause NOT find the truth or possibly admit that your computer models are flawed... the truth is WE MUST back into the wanted result by any means possible. It MUST be blamed on CO2 no matter where the evidence leads... oh crap, more CO2 in Ice core samples during the last Ice age... quick, explain it so CO2 caused this as well.


Did I tell you about the "Infolurker Affect"

See, The Earth's Magnetic field is weakening: news.nationalgeographic.com...

OK, here is the plan... the magnetic field is changing due to mans use of electricity (electrical production and the transport of electricity worldwide is disrupting the natural magnetic field of the earth!).... Now, we can get a coalition of scientists to hit the government up for millions for research, have Al Gore make another movie and if we preach this well enough we can make a crap-ton of money just on the books alone.... Now, if it goes really well after that, we can then press for "electron credits" and "electron Cap & Trade" scams. Then an international court to "punish" those who do not comply with paying us and doing what we tell them in the name of the environment.

I hereby again claim this scam ... err, I mean scientific discovery and disclosure of the greatest threat to mankind ever, publicly and originally on the internet on 1/11/2009 and we will call this the "Infolurker Effect" going forward!

We will make a mint by taxing every kilowatt of electricity produced in the WORLD! This is almost as good as the Co2 scam and nobody has claimed it yet so I am.. LOL! (Yes, the UN will gladly assist us in this department, we can give them a portion of the money to line their pockets and they will support us 100%)

Scientists, DO NOT link this to CO2 please we need to be independent here and make sure we have a "New" man made cause of this imminent disaster (electrical production and transportation over power lines sounds pretty good). No use sharing our new disaster with the Co2 clowns when we can start a whole NEW fear mongering money maker for ourselves and WE will not make our money since they have cornered the Co2 fear market.

www.telegraph.co.uk...





[edit on 22-1-2009 by infolurker]

Analysis Finds Large Antarctic Area Has Meltedreply to post by infolurker

Now, a new satellite analysis shows that at least once in the last several years, masses of unusually warm air pushed to within 310 miles of the South Pole and remained long enough to melt surface snow across a California-size expanse.

The warm spell, which occurred over one week in 2005, was detected by scientists from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory of NASA and the University of Colorado, Boulder.

The warm spell, which occurred over one week in 2005

It is too soon to know whether the warm spell was a fluke or a portent, Dr. Nghiem said.

Well, since it is 2009, I guess it was a fluke... LOL, again this is the story you just posted... interesting to note this happened in 2005 and the article is from 2007??? Think there is an agenda here?

www.nytimes.com...

Want me to post a few pages of links on the recent fluke cold waves that lasted longer than this. Again, another story to lead you to believe that this represents a more than it does... completely alarmist.

1 week in 2005....

Originally posted by infolurker

Want me to post a few pages of links on the recent fluke cold waves that lasted longer than this. Again, another story to lead you to believe that this represents a more than it does... completely alarmist.

I was hoping we could get beyond the whole man made arguments and get to the facts that Ocean levels are rising whether you believe it or not and Who cares if it's an Natural Earth Cycle or man made event.
That’s irrelevant!

The fact is when the South Pole melts the ocean level will rise.


[edit on 22-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by infolurker
completely alarmist.

That’s fine post whatever you want just add links to anything quoted please
You post what you want and I'll post what I want.
Seems fair to me.

I'm not here to try and convince you of anything I really don’t care what you believe I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Originally posted by Tentickles
Good thread, good thread!

While I personally dont believe in global warming. I do believe in climate change. I know that sounds odd, but they are different things. Let's as a race join up and fight the changes! I know I do my part.

Source

Climate Change or Global Warming?
The term climate change is often used interchangeably with the term global warming, but according to the National Academy of Sciences, "the phrase 'climate change' is growing in preferred use to 'global warming' because it helps convey that there are [other] changes in addition to rising temperatures."

The Earth's climate has changed many times during the planet's history, with events ranging from ice ages to long periods of warmth. Historically, natural factors such as volcanic eruptions, changes in the Earth's orbit, and the amount of energy released from the Sun have affected the Earth's climate. Beginning late in the 18th century, human activities associated with the Industrial Revolution have also changed the composition of the atmosphere and therefore very likely are influencing the Earth's climate.

The EPA climate change Web site has four main sections on climate change issues and another section on "What You Can Do" to reduce your contribution. A "Frequent Questions" section is available, and EPA has provided a frequent questions database where users can search for more specific questions and answers on climate change.

Science
For over the past 200 years, the burning of fossil fuels, such as coal and oil, and deforestation have caused the concentrations of heat-trapping "greenhouse gases" to increase significantly in our atmosphere. These gases prevent heat from escaping to space, somewhat like the glass panels of a greenhouse.

Greenhouse gases are necessary to life as we know it, because they keep the planet's surface warmer than it otherwise would be. But, as the concentrations of these gases continue to increase in the atmosphere, the Earth's temperature is climbing above past levels. According to NOAA and NASA data, the Earth's average surface temperature has increased by about 1.2 to 1.4ºF in the last 100 years. The eight warmest years on record (since 1850) have all occurred since 1998, with the warmest year being 2005. Most of the warming in recent decades is very likely the result of human activities. Other aspects of the climate are also changing such as rainfall patterns, snow and ice cover, and sea level.

If greenhouse gases continue to increase, climate models predict that the average temperature at the Earth's surface could increase from 3.2 to 7.2ºF above 1990 levels by the end of this century. Scientists are certain that human activities are changing the composition of the atmosphere, and that increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases will change the planet's climate. But they are not sure by how much it will change, at what rate it will change, or what the exact effects will be. See the Science and Health and Environmental Effects sections of this site for more detail, or review the answers to some frequent science questions.

This has happened many times before and if earth is still here , I'm sure will happen again.

It' like the Akido master Uyesaba ( spell check that one ) said if the giant boulder is rolling down the mountian towards you, just step aside and let the boulder roll down the moutian with no harm to self.
It's the same way if Antartica falls in the ocean, just step aside, to side of mountian!

WHAT IS CLIMATE CHANGE?

The build-up of greenhouse gases (GHGs) threatens to set the Earth inexorably on the path to a unpredictably different climate. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says many parts of the planet will be warmer. Droughts, floods and other forms of extreme weather will become more frequent, threatening food supplies. Plants and animals which cannot adjust will die out. Sea levels are rising and will continue to do so, forcing hundreds of thousands of people in coastal zones to migrate.