The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

1000th reply.

It's man's word because if it was God's then there wouldn't be other religions saying the same thing and telling us the other religions are all evil when they're all so similar it's pathetic.

And God contradicts himself too much in the bible.

Only a man would back that flaw.

[edit on 7/21/10 by ohsnaptruth]

reply to post by ohsnaptruth


so says a man also? what exactly are you promoting? did someone write something you believe in or betting your soul on more so? you know before I read anything in the scriptures I heard an AUDIBLE voice as if sitting on my left like a friend would, the instant I started to open the cover of a Gideon NT, that said-my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins belive in Me and you will never perish-I stood to my feet in awe(not churched or knowing any scripts at that time)turned towards the voice and said yes Lord and started studying after that and years later came across these interesting scriptures-

These are the Scriptures that testify about me-John5.39

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman-Gal4.4

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.-John21.25

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-.25

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.-2Cor5.14

for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."-Eph5.14

His body was like chrysolite, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.-Dan10.6

Christ has indeed been raised from the dead-1Cor15.20

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.-Rev19.13

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.-John1.14

firstborn among many brothers-Rom8.29

and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. 27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.-Eze1

Then the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet. He spoke to me and said: "Go, shut yourself inside your house.-Eze3

God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.-2Cor5.19

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.-1Tim1.15

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.-Is60.12

If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.-Mark3

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' "-Matt27

Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.-Rom12.4

If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.-1Cor12.26

keep in mind before I heard this voice I ridiculed Christian/bible/God any and everything as something for the weakminded to believe in to make sense out of life

reply to post by No King but Jesus


I've heard your testimony of the audible voice before but that hardly is convincing to anyone but you. If I were to accept your experience as 100% proof of Jesus I would also have to accept that aliens, ghosts, fairies, Krisha, Mohammad, Athena, and Buddha also exist because all of those have been reportedly seen and or heard.

So what is your opinion on those who have encounters with other Gods? Do you just assume they are encountering Satan? What makes your experience different than theirs?

Audible hallucinations aren't all that uncommon you know.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

aliens are pondered right?

you know for years I told no one about that and had wondered myself exactly what it was supposed to mean until all these scriptures that I read and posted some above that seem very fitting, as was Pauls testimony(he heard a voice also that said "I am Jesus" out of heaven) and knew for certain even my own family would say ???, especially in light of the fact after a few days of that happening I had gone to a church building and the few guys there refused to baptize me after telling them what happened and asking if I should be, another guy at another time with at least 10 bibles sitting on his shelf said it was probably the devil

nor did I tell anyone of what I called an angel(another poster corrected me and said it was a heavenly being like a cherub due to the wings-and after reading some scripts I think he was correct it was'nt a subject I had really ever looked into but now starting to, due to all the accusations of mental illness/hullicinations-I had never done anything at that age so what was that? nor have I ever hallucinated nor heard an audible voice again) that I had seen at @13 y.o along with a friend who saw it also, but he had only seen it after it started flying back the way it came(by the time I told him, he had only got to the window in time for that-which was after the cherub had looked at me and I ducked down in fear) I watched him fly in from the south then land, walk on the roof ridge towards the east then stopped at the edge and when started to look down- suddenly turned his head towards me as if caught off gaurd, I seen him(I say him because looked masculine type strong) directly in the eyes his whole body wings, eyes, everything was solid bright white like lightning or like the moon , all over and find scriptures relating to this also

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."-Matt26.63

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace-Eph2.15

For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.-Matt24.27

for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.-Matt28(as I told another poster I don't think this means Like Morgan in Bruce Almighty-lol)

As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.-Mark16.5

And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you.-Eze25

Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.-Rev11.9


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

don't get me wrong I don't think of myself as some kind of super saint or something I'm just a normal guy with the same struggles as you, at least other than belief in Christ anyway (but does make me wonder -would'nt you believe if you heard that too? maybe I have the least amount of faith of a man ever created?-I don't know but I know what I've seen and heard), that some very peculiar things have happened to (and gauranteed not because of any good thing I've done-lol?) these are not the only things either, I'm still looking into the others, like this for instance- what are the odds of multiple times a solid white dove would come to people in various cities, so far I have read this happening to others but not multiple times it may be nothing but seems like another rare occurence to me-I was definately fascinated each time and was able to hold, feed and pet each time also, the one in my photos was exactly on the very first day I had ever set foot on this property, and here are some interesting scriptures related to doves

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man.-Luke17.26

He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark.-Gen8.10

At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.-Matt3.16

"To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth.-Is54.9

I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me— the breath of man that I have created.-Is57.16

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.-Rom14.5


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by No King but Jesus

would'nt you believe if you heard that too?

If I heard it while I was a still a Christian yes it would probably have the effect of strengthening my faith. But I cried out to God in tears on many a nights when I was a Christian and got nothing back but a chorus of heavenly crickets (ie SILENCE).

I've had paranormal experiences King, even ones where I and another person have experienced things but do I believe in ghosts? Nope. I was on a paranormal investigation with a friend and a "professional" paranormal team in a barn from the 1800s when we heard what sounded like a little girls voice babbling in a language we couldn't understand. Was it freaky? Hell yes. Did it make me instantly want to believe in ghosts? Hell yes.

But there are mundane explanations for what might have happened that we really can't start drawing wild conclusions about supernatural and out-there things before we count out all of the natural explanations.

That doesn't mean ghosts, Jesus and aliens don't exist but until objectively verifiable evidence is found my personal experiences don't actually prove the existence of anything - though certainly they make me curious as to what might be out there.

Even if Jesus came to me I would be disinclined to believe the Bible, since the New Testament wasn't written down until decades after his death and the Old Testament is filled with morally reprehensible and logically contradictory content.

Hey Titan, decided to stop by like I told you in the u2u. So what would you like to discuss about the metaphysical book? Let me know what you want me to focus on and I will gladly go from there.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Well I'm pretty sure I know your stance on whether it is the Word of God but I'm curious as to where you believe it lines up with science. I think you mentioned it lining up with evolution. Is that in genesis when God tells the land to bring forth life?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


even though certain men, I know for a fact myself (remember before I read anything) and Paul certainly heard an audible voice that said "I am Jesus", this in no way means the only ones saved, and obviously just as a witness to the His being raised, the scriptures put together have now, to me very pertinent information and just has to be divided correctly like even the fact of Old does not mean New, but more than that all the believers throughout the ages is a witness in itself even if I had not been opening the cover of that NT which I think is very specific to my testimony

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.-2Cor3.17

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.-1Cor15.45

For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?-1Cor10.29

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us-Rom8

Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.-Gal3.15

‘ This decision is by the decree of the watchers,
And the sentence by the word of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men,
Gives it to whomever He will,
And sets over it the lowest of men.’-Dan4.17

It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.-Phil1.15

men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.-1Tim6.5

Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD ?
"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?-Is58.5

Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, 'Praise the LORD, I am rich!' Their own shepherds do not spare them.-Zech11.5

Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your evil assemblies.
Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts
my soul hates.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.-Is1.13

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.-Heb4.8

Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake up and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim.-Hab2.7

for jealousy arouses a husband's fury-Prov6.34

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people...Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold-Matt24

He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."-Mal4.6

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses-Heb12.1

"The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."-1Cor12.26

For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.-Acts17.31

[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Most definitely. And when God said that the animals would take up after there own kind as well. Creationists, have no idea what a "kind" is. They rely on physical appearance; rather than the genotype. Mind you as well that scientist vary on what species are as well, but we understand the genotype. A kind and a species is and should be the same thing. Because our genes each carry our ancestors history; therefore, we were brought forth after our own kind/species. Creationist often use very slick tongue that sounds convincing, but upon further inspection it is not. And for the land giving life to the animals. Animals adapt and evolve in environments of different conditions. It has been proven and has been observed.

And we can get this as well, in the book of Ecclesiastes, Chapter 3 Verses 1-22:

"That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past." The species of today will bring new species of tomorrow; just like what was done in the past.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." We are animals. And God wants us to see this.

And much, much more in that chapter as well.

** I am going to get a little complicated here, so if you get lost on the science let me know:

Just like with the T-Rex evolving into the chicken (or devolving, whatever have you). T-rex babies started out with feathers and then matured into scales. However, once this genetic allele was not suitable for a particular environment the gene for feathers was there and the T-Rex was able to adapt. Over the course of the Earths ever changing environment and atmosphere. The oxygen levels decreased; forcing more constrictions on what the animals could grown to be. Scaling, then became a major biological issue. Scaling is basically the explanation for why things are the size that they are. The higher the surface area, the better. For instance, you cannot be a cold blooded creature and get HUGE, because it takes to long to heat up. This was a necessary evolutionary adaptive trait that the T-Rex needed to take in its life. Eventually, certain T-rex populations, most likely, experienced some sort of genetic drift when the allele's for scales, teeth, and other t-rex parts were lost and the modern day chicken's allele's became dominant. That is an example of how evolution takes place today and an example of how a "kind" by creationist standards, could be used to help explain evolution. Gotta love science!!

reply to post by TheMythLives


So it seems at least some of the authors that wrote the Bible were aware of our status as animals. This is something the Creationists would never admit since they seem utterly offended when it is brought up that we are related to apes.

As for animals taking after their own kind, I don't think this was a scientific descriptor, other than people noticed that animals don't procreate with animals that aren't the same kind. This was probably an important discovery in our first steps into raising animals instead of remaining hunter and gatherers though so I guess for its time it was a fairly big discovery.

That is an example of how evolution takes place today and an example of how a "kind" by creationist standards, could be used to help explain evolution.

Certainly, and really kind and species might as well mean the same thing but Creationists will never admit that because doing so produces links to examples of observed speciation that they will never accept.

[edit on 22-7-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


interesting-

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!-John1.29

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.
-Is11.6

See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.-Zech3.9

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.-Matt23.9

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.-Rev5.6

reply to post by No King but Jesus


Please prove me wrong without quoting the bible thanks.

[edit on 7/22/10 by ohsnaptruth]

reply to post by ohsnaptruth


I told you my testimony, did you know even with miracles right in front of their face they still did'nt?

"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.
-Matt27.42

for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.' "-Acts13.41

reply to post by No King but Jesus


So what you're saying is that in order to believe it we need to be gullible saps who base our beliefs off the personal experiences of others when some of those others lived thousands of years ago?

As I said personal experiences are nice for the person experiencing them but they should not constitute proof for other people, other wise we would all be believers in aliens, Krishna, Allah, fairies, etc.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


If you don't trust my words or theirs why would I trust any of yours? and could you show me, maybe even copy and paste a source of writings about their resurrections and witnesses of any these other's, seeing how I can't take your word?

receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?-Gal3.2


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

This was probably an important discovery in our first steps into raising animals instead of remaining hunter and gatherers though so I guess for its time it was a fairly big discovery.

I completely agree! And as I stated in the other thread the book is just filled with FRINGE science of today. From reincarnation, spontaneous combustion, incarnation, and much more. The book even describes mental illnesses of that day that were cured rather quickly. Various miracles that would seem impossible are happening today as well. The problem is that we just do not understand the true extent of what the human body can do. I will elaborate on anything that you want. You probably want all of it elaborated upon, so I will make you a post tomorrow about some cool links between the bible, subatomic particles and the lot. And again, they are my theories, and SHOULD NOT be conceded as "fact". They are just interesting links that I have drawn and they probably be debunked, but still. It is interesting. Let me know, as I stated earlier, if you want me to focus more on one thing than the other things.

reply to post by No King but Jesus


There are millions of others who have claimed to have religious experiences, see Jesus, see Allah, see aliens, etc. But don't take my word for it, type it into Google and do the research yourself.

As for why you should believe my words and reasoning about why the Bible is Not the word of God, well I think my logic has been pretty sound, you can disagree if you want.

Here's a simple wikipedia link about religious experience. Every religion claims these, shamans claim to walk in the spirit world, Christians claim to experience Christ, astral projectors claim they can leave their bodies and go pretty much anywhere.

Religious Experience

In order to accept your religious experience as truth I would also have to accept the religious experiences of EVERY religion - but I would be foolhardy to do so wouldn't I?

In the end what I believe is a matter of where the evidence leads, not where my subjective experiences take me but what can be demonstrated to exist objectively, for ALL minds and therefore is not just a matter of faith or interpretation.

reply to post by No King but Jesus


But how do you know, that when one hears a 'voice' that it is of good seed, that it is in good vibrations.

The best deception, is the use of name, a 'word' , coming in 'his' name.

How do you know, that the deception of the name of 'Jesus' , claiming a man as a God....that this itself does not open a door, how do you know that making a man God, something of the flesh....is not the biggest deception laid unto man.

Thee is nameless, not held to the bound of human language.

How do you know that all of the cultures and religions that 'names' God are in some way being block to gain full understanding through the Holy Spirit, Spirit of the ONE without name.

My mothers experience, if we want to go that route for what is real or not, makes no sense to 'one' religion, it did not totally go along with her belief in things at that time.

Just saying...every culture has different experiences, the cultures from the Bible used their personal experiences to form their beliefs. But by making a man 'Lord' , this could be opening doors would may not expect it would.

Ive had personal experiences. Who is to say, who is being tricked?

My intentions
LV

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


again I ridiculed christian/god/anything then heard then read that would happen exactly verbatum as written and as I have shown even Paul's when he first believed, why would I possibly go out of my way for people who think I'm and/or they are/were lying?