I’m Sick Of The Pro Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!

Originally posted by Sahabi
What are you talking about? The Israelis are allowed to kill off and drive out the Palestinians! God told them to do it. For crying out loud, they are the One Chosen people of the world above all others, and their actions must not be questioned! How can the Israelis be the bad guys here? They are just obeying the orders of their God. [/sarcasm]

"The LORD is a man of war: The LORD is his name." EXODUS 15:3

"And the LORD spoke unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan (Palestine); Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places. And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land.." NUMBERS 33:50-53

Good. So Israel was around before it was even Israel? or is this the likes of in a sense the Nation of Islam? The other side of the coin. The entire prophecy thing is dumb. The how Israel was to be created. A cloud in the sky. Prophecies are just a mindset instilled into people so eventually they make what has been told into the prophecy. That which is the actual foreseen future based on someone else's moral plan. Manipulation. Someone has been manipulating this for hundreds of years. If not thousands of years have gone in time with the same theme. What is the deal? "The book" (translated in English) that was buried in some mountain is just an excuse. A cover.

I understand the rocket thing but it's completely wrong what Israel has been doing all along. It goes by the same notion of those that are entwined in the cause. Is this some god? Israel the son? Is this a decendent of those that were before all things?


I will draw on my own prophecians.

- Israel is the son of Jesus Christ and yet they are both virgins like their "mother".

How is that possible? It is not logical.


They are obviously killing off these people. It's legal genocide. So who are these Palestinians? And why are they being killed off? But more importantly who are these Israelis? What is their purpose? What is the manipulation for? Who are they and what is their purpose?




You can stare into the plate and see the reflection of who you really are.

And those that cannot . . . . will bow down to FULL DISCLOSURE.



2012

ISRAEL WALKS THE EARTH





\w/ HALO \w/

Originally posted by arizonascott
Real and honest Jews understand what is going on!


I am not anti-Jew or an anti-Semite, I am against the death and forced land grab by these shady and sketchy men who have taken over the politics in Israel and use the holocaust as an excuse to do whatever they want. There are no true Jewish people running the Israeli Government. This has become nothing more than an evil Zionist agenda!

Read what you just said. If the Holocaust happened to Christians or anyone else who could do something about it today, they would be still having a fit and would never let anybody forget it.

Jews have nowhere else to go. It's a state the size of New Jersey and the Gaza strip is way smaller. Palestinians can go join like minded allies in one of many countries, like Jordan. Just think about it.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


If they have no where else to go, why do they keep pushing and creating conflict?

Have you seen the true numbers of the Palestinians killed in this latest Zionist attack by a news source outside of U.S. mainstream control?

Its not a pretty picture, and if they have no where else to go, I do not see why Palestine must suffer eternally for that.

reply to post by WISHADOW


And once again, you don't think it is possible for them to inflate the casualty numbers? That it is not logical or in their best interests for the officials in Gaza to inflate the numbers?

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I think you're going by feeling than rationality. Personally for the last week or so I have been in every thread about the current situation. I cannot not say I have seen to many of your posts. Which leads me to think that you are just mad at Israel in general. Out of all the threads and posts the people that are in support of Israel have been the most level headed, rational, and modest. Now if you would like you can look at the posts of pepsi and masonwatcher and see the true sentiment on ats. They are not just in support of Hamas but clearly in support of stupidity and child like behavior. But sadly they are tolerated....

reply to post by WISHADOW

I believe the original poster of that comment was just being sarcastic. There's a few of you who have taken that seriously. It was never intended to be a serious comment from what i can tell (but i could be wrong).

Originally posted by ravenshadow13


Read what you just said. If the Holocaust happened to Christians or anyone else who could do something about it today, they would be still having a fit and would never let anybody forget it.

Jews have nowhere else to go. It's a state the size of New Jersey and the Gaza strip is way smaller. Palestinians can go join like minded allies in one of many countries, like Jordan. Just think about it.

Jews are living in several countries. There are many jews here in the united states. Please do not act like Jews have nowhere to go. The whole point is: Should they be forced to go somewhere?

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Due to there being a thread titled "I’m Sick Of The Anti Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!", it is only fair to present a contradicting side to the perceived reasons for "anti Israel sentiment" on ATS.

Umm actually, to be fair, the thread entitled "I'm Sick of the Anti Israel Sentiment Here On ATS" IS the contradicting side of all the anti Israel sentiment on ATS... therefore, your thread brings nothing new to the table that cant be seen elsewhere here on ATS and only adds to further hate of a people you know nothing about.

At this exact moment, I am watching the Israeli news channel. In Hebrew. This is the real deal, not FOX or CNN or anything like that. This is the Israeli news, what they see on TV. My family watching it is in tears. Everyone on the channel is in tears. These are Israeli people. EVERYONE is being hurt by this war. I'm disgusted that people here saying the things they are saying. One day you will wake up and regret those horrible words.

I have a question to all of this though. When Israel was created by the UN Jordan was also created. Jordan was the Palestine state and was by far much luckier in they got the oil and Israel did not.

Xtrozero

So if Jordan was created as the Palestine state why are Muslin Palestinians living in the Jewish state and not all of them in Jordan? The maps laid out that show the change in that area from muslins to Jews really doesn’t take into account Jordan’s roll in all this.

Xtrozero

To answer your questions: Palestinian is a broad term to describe dozens of communities over hundreds of tribes.

Prior to WWI and even after and to this day many Palestinians were and are nomadic. Some tribes were larger than others and even still some had monarchy like systems or societies in place, like in the territories now known as Jordan. Israeli Palestinians didn't want to give up their independence to a Jordanian ruler, conforming to those laws. They had their own territory they lived in as nomads, Israel and parts of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Egypt. The price they paid for wanting independence was their land.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
So my question is what gets you going when 600 are killed, and their leadership invites the confrontation, and 2 million dead doesn’t deserve a one line post from any of you.

Doesn't it all depend on someone's knowledge of the conflicts? I personally am not going to comment on a conflict I know little about. It's best that way. I happen to have studied the Israeli-Palestinian conflict more extensively than that of Darfur. But that doesn't mean it is any less important simply because I do not comment.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Ok so you hate Jews, we get it

Apparently you don't get it because I very clearly pointed out in my opening post that questioning Israel - which is what I'm doing - and anti-Semitism are not the same thing. I even used an analogy that is very simple to understand: questioning Israel is no more anti-Semitic as questioning Barack Obama is racist.

I don't hate Jews. I hate people who hide behind the Jewish religion and the Israeli flag for their own personal gain - i.e. the Israeli government.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Also, where do 5 million Jews go once they “give back” the land that you all feel is not their’s.

Why do Jews deserve their own country? Likewise, why do Muslims or Christians deserve their own country? Why does any ethnic or religious group deserve, exclusively, it's own country? Can't these people just live amongst the population of an established country? Why must we go to the lengths of stealing someone's country simply to establish a country for one group?

It's like a rich family moves in to your neighborhood. They buy a house, but they want your house too. With the snap of their fingers, you're kicked to the curb with no payment for what was formerly yours. Not only are you kicked the curb, but you also must be forced to live at the curb for the remainder of your days, with barricades around you, and with very little access to food, water, and medicine. Then the local media does reporting on this, and you are perceived as a criminal for being pissed off that you were thrown out of your home.

What gives them the right to take your home from you? And does it make things any better to have the local media present false reports about you, or to have others judge you based on those false reports?

Originally posted by Xtrozero
This is why just a simple post from you all of “I hate Jews”

You really only enforce my point I made in my opening post when you claim we all hate Jews. I said that people like you go to ridiculous lengths and resort to what essentially boils down to name calling rather than reviewing the facts. You assume we all hate Jews rather than attempting to get to the bottom of why we believe what we believe.

I thank you for providing a clear example of what I was pointing out in my opening post.

*never forget that the zionist entity did not come to reality by chance:the u.n. brought it out when Palestinians weren't having the right to choose being under british "authority";and the british authority which covered the intrusion of zionists in Palestine did pay the price for it with many british soldiers or policemen being killed by zionists ;the west definitely don't perceive the jews like other cultures and civilizations in the world do:i it because of remorse or is it because of ignorance and forged history....:so called holocaust is western business strictly and doesn't have to go global...;the west is consciously and/or unconsciously responsible of what is happening in Palestine....

Originally posted by ravenshadow13

Originally posted by arizonascott
Real and honest Jews understand what is going on!


I am not anti-Jew or an anti-Semite, I am against the death and forced land grab by these shady and sketchy men who have taken over the politics in Israel and use the holocaust as an excuse to do whatever they want. There are no true Jewish people running the Israeli Government. This has become nothing more than an evil Zionist agenda!

Read what you just said. If the Holocaust happened to Christians or anyone else who could do something about it today, they would be still having a fit and would never let anybody forget it.

Jews have nowhere else to go. It's a state the size of New Jersey and the Gaza strip is way smaller. Palestinians can go join like minded allies in one of many countries, like Jordan. Just think about it.

Why do the Jews have to have some place to go? You act as if Israel isn't a nation.

Last I checked, Israel is a nation like every other nation. AND QUIT BRINGING UP THE HOLOCAUST IT DOESN"T JUSTIFY ANY ACTIONS FROM HERE ON OUT.

Geesh. I'm sick and tired of hearing about something which happened in the 40's when talking about actions today.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


What the hell are you talking about? The Germans are the one that commited genocide to the Jews, they should give a piece of their land to Jews. Not the innocent Palestinians, that have become a toy in the hands of the Zionist pigs.

May God bless the brave Freedom fighters of Hamas and Hezbollah. They will fight till the death for their land that is rightfully theirs. They are the ones that will die with honor, unlike the Zionist scum. The wrath of God will be feeled all across Israel!

Death to the Oppressors!
Death to Zionism!
Death to Israel!

Here is what I think we all agree on so far:

1. Jews have a ligitimate claim to Israel.
2. Palestinians have a legitimate claim to Israel.
3. If Palestinians had the support of the USA and UN then they would be dominating.
4. the violence will not end until one side or the other has been eliminated.
5. the holocost is a moot issue in this thread.

Does that just about cover it?

Originally posted by MichJJC
Here is what I think we all agree on so far:

1. Jews have a ligitimate claim to Israel.

Uhmm... let's backtrack. Jews were given Israel because no nation was willing to take hordes of homeless peoples into their borders.

So that's great.. Now however, at that point, it stopped being "Jews Deserver Israel" And started being simply Israel.

Whatever actions Israel takes is as a nation, not a Jewish people.

2. Palestinians have a legitimate claim to Israel.

I don't think anyone has a legitimate claim to Jerusalem.

Israel is simply the name of the nation who occupies Jerusalem currently.

Don't get the two twisted.

3. If Palestinians had the support of the USA and UN then they would be dominating.

Anyone who has the support of the US has a leg up. Hands down.

4. the violence will not end until one side or the other has been eliminated.

Not at all, if their fortunes were tied together, and both sides took a 50/50 split of tourism revenues, they would both work together to keep the place clean. That's another route.

5. the holocost is a moot issue in this thread.

Yes... Agree wholeheartedly. I have no idea why the Holocaust was even brought up to begin with unless it was more lame attempts to justify something.

One thing that struck to me about Isreal is that with their superior technology and tactics. They should/will win the war. Yet they talk as the underdog. Every one has the Alex Ferguson (Man Utd boss) underdog - "everyone is a against us" attitude and in this conflict, while there is some sympathy towards them, this is grating with their technology.

It would be like USA complaining beating the drum about Cuba all the time.

By the way, I sit firmly on the fence on this one - both Hamas and Isreal accuse each other of breaking the peace agreeemnt with some justification and both want the war for their own ends. Both will come out with more bitter and twisted recriminations and a less peaceful world at the end and yes- it is poor Joe public that take the killings - not the soldiers.

As in my other notes, we are all partly to blame for this, which politican has not gone to war to save their own neck and turn attention away from their own crappy performance (bush, Blair and thatcher to start the list rolling).

When our goverments go to war - we should simply as a nation stop paying our taxes and vote them out (I realise this assumes a decmocracy)

4. the violence will not end until one side or the other has been eliminated.

HunkaHunka wrote in response.
Not at all, if their fortunes were tied together, and both sides took a 50/50 split of tourism revenues, they would both work together to keep the place clean. That's another route.

Pretend the Israelies are a up of water and the Palestinians are a cup of oil, as they have and now behave like. Now pretend the both must occupy a single cup the water. Which will be the only one to remain?

answer: Water

The oil will spill over or be burned away.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

It's hearsay from what little can be read. It could say anything beyond that. So have a full article as source other than a fragment that could fill in all the questions?

hearsay? [SNIP] look at the discription, hell even the article title that makes it pretty clear.

21/12/2001 U.S. Ambassador says `Israel encouraged Islamists in bid to dampen Palestinian nationalism'

hmmm i wonder what the article is about, must be hearsay. what a crock.

it matches perfectly with the other articals discription of what the artical is about. plus there is an option for you to buy the article, if you want the truth and you think im lying buy it. but you dont want the truth now do you?

i know what the artical says because i saw it back then. do you want me to wipe your butt and spoon feed you all this information? do some research, im not your mother. the evidence is there. and it is all fairly clear, the israelis did not want the palestinian movement taking off and growing so they divided the palestinians between a secular nationalist movement that was led by yasser arafat by creating the religious extremists hamas movement. this is how intelligence agencies work.

but it is quite obvious now, you dont want the truth, because you cant handle it.


[edit on 6/1/09 by masqua]