Thou Shalt not Lie - Blasphemy by the Bible

How can you follow "The Word of God" when the bible is filled with inconsistancies, mistranslations and ruled by liars, thieves, killers and pheodophiles?

Do you know the only legal difference between a church and a cult is their tax status?

Do you know that Mary, Mother of God was invented by the Roman Catholic church in 431ad?

Or that it was decided by the same council (by a man who wasnt even baptised yet mind you) that God, Jesus, Lord and the Allmighty would be the same entity?

Why are all the stories from the bible copies of older stories - for a god who can do so much creating - he's not very creative in telling stories!

Why does a god need food, clothing and jewels for?

If god is so forgiving then why does he want to stick someone in a lake of fire just for not believing (or at least have the decency to manifest yourself to your persistant followers - this does not include Mary as we've already discovered she never existed at all so the fatima event was a load of crap but the moment the priests smelt money they were running in to get a profit from mainly poor people mind you when they knew all along that Mary never existed)

Most wars are caused by religious beliefs and the most horrible torturous deaths have been inflicted in the name of god. A god - mind you - who couldnt even tell you that the earth is not flat and the world does not revolve around us.

And ummm excuse me but how can Lucifer be so bad - all he done was told God he didnt want to work for him anymore and God loses it and sends him to hell - sounds like my old crazy coke-head boss to me - At least if god was a crazy coke-head he'd have an excuse! And why would Heaven be a place where angels would have to revolt anyway?

Sounds like God is the one with some answering to do - intentionally drowning so many innocent young children, allowing peodophiles to hide in his church and harm young children, then letting them repent for their sins so they can do it again - with the help of all the other priests.

In my eyes religion is EVIL

I dont need someone to bribe me to behave or have morals - I do that on my own accord.

Thanks for some logic!!

reply to post by mamasita


Wow! This kind of hate usually stems from a previous unpleasant encounter with the subject.

I don't care to know about your unpleasant experience with a cult or church, but the hate and rage in your post tells me that it was awfully bad.







[edit on 1-12-2008 by RRconservative]

I really like what you have to say, there is no Oz and if there is I want no part of him or his cults. I disagree that it is hate, it is reality and people do not like when you question their crazy belief system. the bible is so full of contradiction that I don't see how any person on earth could believe the fairy tale stories it contains. Not to mention the hatred it spews forth about even the simplest thing like unruly children.

reply to post by RRconservative


hahaha where was there hate? or rage? i find that quite hilarious i thought it was more comical than anything.

Originally posted by mamasita
How can you follow "The Word of God" when the bible is filled with inconsistancies, mistranslations and ruled by liars, thieves, killers and pheodophiles?

Because instead of listening to canard-ridden websites like The Skeptic's Annotated Bible, I researched it myself and got to the sources.

Do you know the only legal difference between a church and a cult is their tax status?

Did you know that 'a church' according to the Bible is actually a spiritual entity consisting of the entire body of Spirit dwelt believers? It's something no man, church leader, or government can infringe upon... unless we let them.

Do you know that Mary, Mother of God was invented by the Roman Catholic church in 431ad?

No. Because the early church fathers wrote about Mary centuries before the council. Her virginity was only later solidified as sound doctrine for the sake of unity. It was not created.

Or that it was decided by the same council (by a man who wasnt even baptised yet mind you) that God, Jesus, Lord and the Allmighty would be the same entity?

No. Because the early church fathers wrote about the trinitarian concept before the council. It was only later solidified as sound doctrine for the sake of unity. It was not created.

Why are all the stories from the bible copies of older stories - for a god who can do so much creating - he's not very creative in telling stories!

Are they? Or are the supposed originals distortion of oral tradition? It cannot be proven either way. [Edit to add: Well the flood and creation accounts at least. Not sure what you're exactly referring to].

Why does a god need food, clothing and jewels for?

He doesn't.

If god is so forgiving then why does he want to stick someone in a lake of fire just for not believing (or at least have the decency to manifest yourself to your persistant followers - this does not include Mary as we've already discovered she never existed at all so the fatima event was a load of crap but the moment the priests smelt money they were running in to get a profit from mainly poor people mind you when they knew all along that Mary never existed)

There are several mentions of Mary in historical ante-Nicene records. I'm not going to argue with you about the Fatima event, though. I remain skeptical of that as well.

Most wars are caused by religious beliefs and the most horrible torturous deaths have been inflicted in the name of god.

Factually incorrect.

A god - mind you - who couldnt even tell you that the earth is not flat and the world does not revolve around us.

Canards that won't die.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by AshleyD]

When I was a TINY little girl, I went to my mom and said, "Please mommy, tell me that God didn't really ask Abraham to kill his little boy!" My mom explained it was only a test and God wouldn't have allowed him to do so." I then asked, "What if God asked you to kill me? Would you do it?" She explained that that was the OLD God, and he wouldn't ask that of his people now. I would then sit and look at the pictures of the crucifiction and cry my eyes out. Because if he could do that to his OWN LITTLE BOY...what would he ask my mommy to do to me?
p.s. very unintentional and Freudian spelling of "crucifixion" I swear!

reply to post by AshleyD


well obviously you didnt research too well or you would know that you were wrong on many accounts.

So you've read the original transcripts of the old testament?

So if that is what a church is supposed to be than why have money hungry priests turned it into a place to hand over your pay cheque and be told how to live your life?

So they lied about her virginity? And show me where she was mentioned please. And also about all the "gods" being mentioned as one entity.

Hahaha if they were, than they would have mentioned your god but they didnt. The stories from the bible including Adam and Eve the Garden of Eve Noahs Ark and 7 Day Creation stories are from older civilisations - nothing to do with your god - the stories were taken into the bible and the names were changed around. The Hebrews got these stories from Mesopotamia who had there own gods - but of course you already know this coz you researched it all right?

If god doesnt need food, clothing and jewels than why does he constantly demand these items? I'm sure you've read this after you have researched it all.

Actually the Fatima event is the only event that does have evidence - for someone who researched all this i'm sure you'd know that there were 70,000 people there to see the weird movements of the sun - but i dont believe this had anything to do with your god.

yes won't die unlike your religion - people are waking up to the facts. we dont need a supernatural entity to tell us to be good - we'll do that ourselves. my point however is the amount of blood drawn in the name of god. why does your god let such bad things happen when you all go on that Lucifer is so active in our world - if Lucifer was his creation and his mistake then why isn't he protecting us from his bad error of judgement? why do we have to suffer the consequences? and why do we get punished so badly - if he created us in his image than shouldnt we be perfect too? oh wait sorry already discovered that this god of yours is faaaaaaaaaar from perfect! and if he knows so much than why does he have to ask so many questions to the characters in the bible? i'm not the most sympathetic person in the world but if i were god i would have done a much better job in the nurturing - seems to me that we were better off before religion

reply to post by jayla


thats another thing - why would the all knowing god have to test him? if he knows all than he would know the answer all along!

everything in the bible contradicts itself through the primative methods used to translate it.

the bible has been added to so much and so often that no one knows what is original text anymore.

bible is a book of allegories. don't take it literally, for the truth has always been hidden from ignorant. this is why it is sometimes just better to 'believe' in it, and not understanding it. those who try to understand it, yet have no capability to do so, always turn from god and his word and seeks out another religion for 'truth', or worse, they become atheist. but no matter, they will not find their lasting truth but restlesly they grow tired of spirituality and abandon the faith alltogether.

of course, what you want to believe is your own matter. just don't try to critizize something you don't really understand.

peace

Originally posted by mamasita
So you've read the original transcripts of the old testament?

No. Have you? No. Why not? They don't exist. So this would take us back to a faith based issue- not a factual absolute like you are making it out to be. Although there most definitely are discrepancies such as scribal errors, archaeological discovers reveal time and time again that the texts as a whole (as well as their message) have maintained their integrity.

So if that is what a church is supposed to be than why have money hungry priests turned it into a place to hand over your pay cheque and be told how to live your life?

You're preaching to the choir. I have massive issues with church corruption. However, the simple fact of the matter is Christianity is supposed to be a private spiritual walk. If the Christian heeds the Bible, they would realize it mentions point blank to reject such church leaders. Yes, it is true that many succumb to the lure of corrupt teachers. That is a sad fact. However, it isn't remotely biblical. You're essentially saying the entire faith is corrupt due to their actions as well as the followers who allow it.

So they lied about her virginity? And show me where she was mentioned please. And also about all the "gods" being mentioned as one entity.

The actual site I am trying to use as a source looks like it is down at the moment (earlychristianwritings.com) so here is a link to the thread where the issue are mentioned. Although the thread deals with the divinity of Christ as a whole, you'll see mentions of the trinitarian concept and the virgin birth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry I can't get more specific examples since the site is down and that's the only place I know where to find the examples immediately.

Hahaha if they were, than they would have mentioned your god but they didnt. The stories from the bible including Adam and Eve the Garden of Eve Noahs Ark and 7 Day Creation stories are from older civilisations - nothing to do with your god - the stories were taken into the bible and the names were changed around. The Hebrews got these stories from Mesopotamia who had there own gods - but of course you already know this coz you researched it all right?

Yes, you are referring to the ANE mythologies that many believe the ancient Jews copied from. However, and this is what I touched on above, the tablets predate the Hebrew texts but many believe the Hebrews passed on their views by oral tradition. So the skeptics will say the pagans had their myths first while the believers will say the Hebrews passed on the true history via oral tradition. As in: Nothing is debunked or proven.

If god doesnt need food, clothing and jewels than why does he constantly demand these items? I'm sure you've read this after you have researched it all.

The only times it was required was for OT temple work and rituals. However, what I am getting at is He doesn't need them. The temple was for the Hebrew's benefit and the rituals were for their atonement.

Actually the Fatima event is the only event that does have evidence - for someone who researched all this i'm sure you'd know that there were 70,000 people there to see the weird movements of the sun - but i dont believe this had anything to do with your god.

Yes, I'm aware of the very famous event. But I remain skeptical that it was godly phenomenon.

reply to post by mamasita


Religion is the best way to manipulate the masses, works like a charm. There's nothing wrong with believing in whatever you want to no matter how idiotic it may sound to others. It's everyone's right to believe in fairy tales, I do, sort of. My favorite version of religion is the Jewish one, that whole thing about how they are the chosen people and everyone else is screwed is interesting. Find out the truth when we die, that's all I know and I'm not in much of a rush to get there. I could go on and on about how religious nutjobs are the biggest hypocrites but the original post covered it for me.

Here is how Mary, Mother of God was invented:

In 431ad the Council of Ephesus decided on the worship of Mary, Mother of God as a politically motivated act because in Ephesus the people were still worshiopping the Mother Goddess Artemis. In order to unite religious beliefs it was Artemis who was 'promoted' to christianity. As soon as this meeting was finished all statues of Artemis were fitted with halos.

It was in the 2nd Council of Constantinople that became the Nicacean-Constantinople where they decided on the identical nature of God, Jesus etc.

These meetings were held by Constantine, Emporer Theodosius, Theodosius II and Emperor Valentianus - murderous villians that you would never want to meet.

reply to post by Geemor


first of all there is nothing wrong with being atheist. at least we dont start wars. we dont go around killing innocent people because we think they're witches.

so dont take it literally? but isnt that how your supposed to take it? so the 10 conmandments aren't made to be taken literally? what about the whole story of being a god? wont take that literally either?

Why cant i criticise it? religious people constantly criticise atheists but is that ok? at least i'm not violent about my convictions.

if people want to believe thats fine but if lies are told then i will expose them.

reply to post by AshleyD


oh hi ash how have you been? yes i'm aware your a smart cookie i've debated with you before lolz

ok so you'll be aware that i dont take the notion faith too easily. I need more than faith so lets not go there.
i believe that the bible does in fact hold a key to to our past but the way its been interpreted has just made a mess of it all.
i'm not saying that a person named jesus never existed. he could have been the greatest con artist known to mankind.

you say that you have plenty of information about church conspiracies - which is fantastic - you arent closeminded and for that i respect you.

i'm sorry but i dont have time to read a full debate they can go on forever! just some evidence of Virgin Mary being mentioned in the bible will be sufficient.

tablets that predate the hebrew texts? sounds facsinating - could you provide me with a link?

ok so if the food, clothing and jewels were for the priests - why would they be allowed to gain such fortunes? that would mean having slaves bring that to you - so God had slaves? and just the point of him giving his followers jewels defies the whole teaching of the church! and if he gets this stuff then why isnt he doing it now? in fact where the hell is he? he's quite rude not turning up like he promised - he hasnt been around in so long its amazing people still do worship him - her it whatever it is today.

but you still could never explain to me why he had done such cruel things, allowed such disasters to happen - there simply cant be a god in the world of reality.

oh and its interesting to note that its actually the most religious countries that are the most violent - the least violent countries are where religion population is at its lowest

reply to post by jitombe


i dont have a problem with anyones beliefs either - everyone has a right to their own beliefs - in fact my 2 last exes were muslim and we never had a problem with eachothers beliefs.

yes i love how certain groups are the 'chosen' ones - like the israelites in the bible after they took the slaves from egypt - ok so that wasnt a nice thing to do but where was God when Hitler was in reign? We didnt have no help then so what use is he? why do we have to worship him again? hmmmm cant remember - oh yeah he bribes us with paradise or to be tortured in the lake of fire - sounds like a real just god - i'd rather gamble my 'soul' than ever be assocciated with someone as spoilt and cruel as him her it whatever

Originally posted by mamasita
oh hi ash how have you been? yes i'm aware your a smart cookie i've debated with you before lolz

I remember you, too. *Platonic cheek smooches. Haven't seen you around in a while. How have you been?

i'm sorry but i dont have time to read a full debate they can go on forever! just some evidence of Virgin Mary being mentioned in the bible will be sufficient.

Here are some excerpts I posted in the other thread:

'God existing in flesh, true life in death, both of Mary and of God, first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord... There is then one Teacher, who spake and it was done. While even those things which He did in silence are worthy of the Father... Let us therefore do all things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples, and He may be in us as our God... God Himself being manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. And now that took a beginning which had been prepared by God.'

Ignatius' Epistle to the Ephesians (VII, XV, XVIII, XIX)

And Jesus the Christ, because the Jews knew not what the Father was, and what the Son, in like manner accused them and Himself said, "No one knows the Father except the Son nor the Son but the Father..." Now the Word of God is His Son, as we have before said... As our Lord Himself says, "He that hears Me, hears Him that sent Me." Now by the will of God having become man for the human race. Who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God.

Justin Martyr, I Apology (LXIII)

The Word of God, who became flesh for them. For it was for this end that the Word of God was made man, and He who was the Son of God became the Son of man, that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving the adoption, might become the son of God... The Son of man, this is Christ, the Son of the living God. He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word... He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counsellor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. God, our Lord, being the Word of the Father, and the Son of man, since He had a generation as to His human nature from Mary-who was descended from mankind, and who was herself a human being-was made the Son of man. "God with us."

Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses (XIX)

He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh but Son of God by the Divine will and powered, truly born of a virgin and baptized by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch... That He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection.

Also from Ignatius.

The above are just examples. There are tons more but, again, the main site is down and all I have for now is the other thread. THIS specific post dealing mostly with the virgin birth, Mary, and trinity. There's more examples over there.

tablets that predate the hebrew texts? sounds facsinating - could you provide me with a link?

HERE is a source that looks like it approaches the issue from a secular view. It even seems to disagree with my view so that should be pretty fair.

ok so if the food, clothing and jewels were for the priests - why would they be allowed to gain such fortunes? that would mean having slaves bring that to you - so God had slaves? and just the point of him giving his followers jewels defies the whole teaching of the church! and if he gets this stuff then why isnt he doing it now? in fact where the hell is he? he's quite rude not turning up like he promised - he hasnt been around in so long its amazing people still do worship him - her it whatever it is today.

Jewish history is something I don't know too much about. That's one of my ignorant areas. From what I know (and it is very limited), the Levi tribe (the ones who ran the temple) were not allowed to own anything personally. I might be totally wrong but that is what I remember. Often times, the riches/spoils were also not allowed to be taken, kept, or reused but had to be destroyed completely. I believe the Levites were given food and clothing but I am not aware of them receiving jewels or riches. Anything of that sort I believe was only used for building the temple (but I may be totally wrong).

2). At that point it would not have defied the whole teaching of 'the church' because that was in OT times while 'the church' started by Jesus is a NT concept. The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. so there was no more temple or rituals taking place. Also, Jesus taught that we were the temple where the spirit now dwells. So really there is nothing in the NT that makes elaborate churches the norm (although a new temple is prophesied for the end times). Not that having a nice church is sinful or unbiblical. But I do believe the saying rings true: The love of money is the root of all evil.

3). I believe we are in the morning of the 'third day' in a prophetic sense. It would totally derail the thread but it alludes to a prophecy in Hosea where it says the Messiah would be gone for two days and return on the third. Then in Peter's Epistles, dealing with the context of Jesus' return, we are told not to be impatient but that a day is like 1,000 years to God and vice versa. I'm not claiming anything for certain but it is interesting when you cross reference those passages. Then adding the end times fulfillments we are now seeing, I can only come to the conclusion we are very near. But trust me- nobody yearns for His coming more than Christians.

oh and its interesting to note that its actually the most religious countries that are the most violent - the least violent countries are where religion population is at its lowest

Not necessarily. It is true that, let's say countries in the Middle East under sharia law are extremely violent or what happened during the crusades with the church, but there are several atheistic countries in the East that have been responsible for the deaths of tens of millions in the last century alone. It's terrible over there.

[edit on 12/2/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by mamasita
...The stories from the bible including Adam and Eve the Garden of Eve Noahs Ark and 7 Day Creation stories are from older civilisations - nothing to do with your god - the stories were taken into the bible and the names were changed around. The Hebrews got these stories from Mesopotamia who had there own gods - but of course you already know this coz you researched it all right? ...

Your failure at simple logic is staggering.

Let's see.... all these old, unconnected civilizations tell the SAME STORY, but it's not true. I'm glad police officers don't use the same logic.

"Well Bob, all of the witnesses say that this guy was run over by a car. But we all know cars don't exist, so he must have been trampled by an elephant."

reply to post by AshleyD


yeah i have lots of subjects i like to get into and i really spend more time reading than debating lolz. but i've been good how about urself?

ok so the information was interesting but it didnt acknowledge Mary, Mother of God just the name Mary. And the references to God being Jesus sounds like they are describing who Jesus is representing not that he is ACTUALLY God. I thought you had something saying God is Jesus and Jesus is God or something to that effect.

and why do people pick on the Jews so much? If anything they were the ones that believed in God and followed the Old Testament far longer than others.

Thanks for the link on the texts i'll read that as soon as i get time

reply to post by sir_chancealot


ummm i think you need to cut down on your meds

i cant reply to this it makes absolutely no sense - and you criticise my logic?!