The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

reply to post by sadchild01


At least we don't beat our rape victims for allowing themselves to be raped.

Heck, all the best, most advanced societies were sexually liberal, while all the oppressive, stagnant societies have extremely harsh attitudes about sex. The abuse of women is worse in oppressive societies, it is just not as openly reported.

reply to post by poet1b


nah,most american criminals threaten and even kill their victims who they raped, no big deal ...

like i said before , its not surprising that USA has the maximum number of rapes in the world ,

[edit on 4-11-2008 by sadchild01]

reply to post by poet1b


Poet.

After catching myself up on this thread, I noticed you keep bringing up the point about how OP attacked us (US Soldiers). You're right, but the person you're addressing won't cop to your claims and back his assumptions up, because if you read the first post HE made, you'll see he shares an even more ignorant view of what we are.

I'll quote it for you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No surprise here....

Soldiers= psychotic, suicidal, rapists.
Go ahead and flame, but you all know its true.

How many more reports do you have to hear about military retards either murdering or torturing Iraqis(and even puppies!), killing themselves, or being victims or rape.
Has anyone run into one of these guys.....I have multiple personal stories of run ins with military personnel, that I would be happy to share.

These people are human garbage, and don't go blaming war. It's hard to have a lot of sympathy for anyone who would sign up for this war.

-Liquid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, while your attempts to call out this issue are noteworthy, I doubt they'll matter. It doesn't matter to someone like this whether there are a higher percentage of rapes on college campuses or even on the streets of major cities. His real issues lie with the US Military.... unfortunately for him.

Also - that's the second reason I've pretty much withdrawn from the thread and this will more than likely be my last post on this retarded subject.

People like this are a sickness to America. A sickness. You can count the stars this bull# recieved and see how many others agree with this crap. People like this don't deserve the freedoms we protect for them. It makes me sick to my stomach knowing that while those of us who are good people in the Army are out here doing what people like this are scared to do and too materialistic, selfish, and unreliable enough to do - these people are saying this crap about us.

Well you know what "Liquid" - shove it, pal.

And you can get mad. Cuss at the screen, Liquid, cuss at me - send me some mean U2U or hell, you know what -

Mod Edit. Email Address removed.

Make it a really long, curse-filled, whining email.

Your little avatar doesn't bother me with your little pea shooter. At the end of the day - you're you, I'm me, and we're all living our lives - safe from one another because of the valuable anonymity the internet offers us. That this forum offers us.

Dave Rabbit was wise to come on here and say stuff - because obviously, as a somewhat renowned Mod, he has a little more weight than me here in my Jedi Costume on an avatar with my words on a screen. You all just need to remember one thing.

We're still out here for you (the American people), and while we have our problems, we're human too. We're Americans too. Don't forget what we do to keep your streets safe from the outside threat.

I'm signing off this thread before I say anything further that will incite negative attention from the mods and get points docked. You all have fun.

Don't email me spam.

Mod Note - putting a personal email address on a public board is not a wise thing to do, you open yourself to abuse, spam bots and all kinds of nasties, so I've removed the address you included above to prevent that

- Neformore

Thanks. I was understandbly upset when I wrote this.

[edit on 4/1108/08 by neformore]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by mf_luder]

reply to post by craig732

This whole story is hearsay from a woman who was demoted for her role in the Abu prison scandel. Produce actual cases where this occured.

Incorrect.Just one of these stories is from her.

The rest come from figures and reports released by the Department of Defense and other government/military agencies.

And just for you i'll repost what i did several pages back seen as you obviously can't be bothered to read anything properly.

But, now, even more alarming, are deaths of women soldiers in Iraq, and in the United States, following rape. The military has characterized each of the deaths of women who were first sexually assaulted as deaths from "non-combat related injuries," and then added "suicide." Yet, the families of the women whom the military has declared to have committed suicide, strongly dispute the findings and are calling for further investigations into the deaths of their daughters. Specific US Army units and certain US military bases in Iraq have an inordinate number of women soldiers who have died of "non-combat related injuries," with several identified as "suicides."94 US military women in the military have died in Iraq or during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). 12 US Civilian women have been killed in OIF. 13 US military women have been killed in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF). 12 US Civilian women have been killed in Afghanistan.

Of the 94 US military women who died in Iraq or in OIF, the military says 36 died from non-combat related injuries, which included vehicle accidents, illness, death by "natural causes," and self-inflicted gunshot wounds, or suicide. The military has declared the deaths of the Navy women in Bahrain that were killed by a third sailor, as homicides. 5 deaths have been labeled as suicides, but 15 more deaths occurred under extremely suspicious circumstances.

8 women soldiers from Fort Hood, Texas (six from the Fourth Infantry Division and two from the 1st Armored Cavalry Division) have died of "non-combat related injuries" on the same base, Camp Taji, and three were raped before their deaths. Two were raped immediately before their deaths and another raped prior to arriving in Iraq. Two military women have died of suspicious "non-combat related injuries" on Balad base, and one was raped before she died. Four deaths have been classified as "suicides."

www.commondreams.org...

Related links.
www.truthdig.com...
uk.youtube.com...
www.alternet.org...



And to keep going on about them being trained and armed is just stupid.You think because all soldiers do then they should be able to fight off their attacker successfully.If this is true of the US forces then why is the war still raging.Surely they would be able to fight off the Iraqi enemy no problem.It doesn't matter that they have guns too and that some are trained soldiers,you should be winning easily.






[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by americandingbat

a) on a college campus you are not going to go into battle and have to depend on your attacker for your life

b) on a college campus you will be heard and the issue will be investigated if you complain. You will not be forced to continue to serve with your attacker. In the worst case scenario, if you are not believed, you can leave the college without going AWOL.

Thanks for saying this,its my reason for starting this thread.
Rape happens everywhere,we know this,but to be attacked by your own side during war is horrendous.Your already facing a life and death situation from the enemy and the possibilty of rape and torture if captured,so having to have the added fear of your own side doing the same thing is sickening.

Not to mention, with the dangerous backdrop of war, and forced length to the assignments, large portions of women were risking dehydration by refusing to venture out to meet their needs past afternoon. An equal situation cannot be found anywhere at home. Also, once such a thing occurs, to have it swept away, to be forced to endure 3 more years, or X number of months, in the company of the same guys. The situation is not comparable in the least, its unimaginable.

reply to post by poet1b

My source is better than the ops. At least my link gives an honest portrayal. Here is another fact.

Obviously the articles that say the figures are from the D.O.D. aint enough for you,so here are the figures straight from the horses mouth.

For fiscal year 2007 there were 2,688 reports of sexual assault among the services. Of those, just over 2,000 were unrestricted reports, meaning it is sent to the command for investigation. There were 705 restricted, or confidential, reports of sexual assault. Those allow the victim to receive medical care and other services without an investigation being initiated....There were 174 reports of sexual assault in U.S. Central Command. One hundred and five were made in Iraq and 43 in Afghanistan. The others were at other sites within the command.

www.defenselink.mil...

As of Dec. 31, 2004, law enforcement authorities had completed 1,232 of 1,700 investigations alleged assaults. Commanders took punitive action against 393 offenders, and 340 subjects were awaiting final disposition of their cases as of the Dec. 31 cut off date of the report.

www.defenselink.mil...

The op makes these cheap shot judements of U.S. soldiers without ever looking at statistics of other countries or groups. This was a slander job from the beginning, whose only effort is to slam U.S. soldiers. When you at the numbers honestly, U.S. soldiers look better than most, certainly better than our college students.

This thread is about US soldiers who rape,not all US soldiers.This thread is also not about another countries military,its about the US military and the men,not all of them,who rape their fellow soldiers.So stop trying to turn this into a US soldier bashing thread,its pathetic.




[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by mf_luder



just wanted to let you know that I appreciated what you had to say....lots of emotion and I can understand why....with all due respect...I have a ? I hope you can answer. Again....I respect your opinion and your intelligence...this question comes to you with *RESPECT*

I am against the Iraq war. Do I believe that every Man/Woman in the Military fighting this war to be the devil...no. However: Knowing what we know now...Bush Admin lying so we could go to war in Iraq...why don't more Men and Women of our forces stand up and deny this war!!?? What are we winning? It seems I hear almost daily that our Men and Women are fighting for our freedoms...Iraq wasn't taking away any of our freedoms...so..what do they mean when they make this statement??

Thanx

Trace

reply to post by poet1b


My my last post isn't effed up. I was just pointing out that you haven't used a single question mark in any of your posts directed at me, and yet you're wondering why I haven't answered any of your questions. Now thats effed up.

As far as I can tell you are just ranting and bashing college campuses. You think they are horrible places full of horrible things, and somehow effects of war and the people who have the kind of mindset willing sign up to fight unjust wars creates a safer or as safe of an environment as any college campus. Simply not true. No stats and no psyche expert would ever support that view.

Some one stick a fork in Poet please.

reply to post by mf_luder

People like this are a sickness to America. A sickness.

Really, cuz I don't rape the women I work with. I just pointed out the psychological trends of soldiers, based on research, stats, and my own personal experience. Thats what you view as a sickness? Not surprised, considering you're a soldier.

You can count the stars this bull# recieved and see how many others agree with this crap.

You should ask yourself why so many concur with my statements, maybe I'm on to something.

People like this don't deserve the freedoms we protect for them.

If you wanna protect my freedoms, please stop signing up to go to countries that haven't attacked us and killing scores of their citizens. Instead, why don't you run for congress on the platform that you will attempt to repeal the patriot act. I promise to vote for you if you run on that platform, and even call you a hero.

Well you know what "Liquid" - shove it, pal.

And you can get mad. Cuss at the screen, Liquid, cuss at me - send me some mean U2U or hell, you know what -

You're trying to incite a childish shouting match or what? Why would I yell at the screen? I don't suffer from PTSD, like all your buddies. You military types are soo tactful.

Make it a really long, curse-filled, whining email.

Really? This is getting weird, but I'll play....Why would I send you an email full of 4 letter words when I can just pick apart everything you've typed and trash right here on thread for all to see.

Your little avatar doesn't bother me with your little pea shooter.

Why should it, you used to taking on innocent people with smaller less sophisticated weapons. For the record, it is a bb gun. It was used in a short film we made, which didn't hurt anybody and has actually entertained hundreds if not thousands.
click here to see it if you want.

safe from one another because of the valuable anonymity the internet offers us.

Safe from one another? Even if we were face to face I'd have no intention of compromising your safety, why would I, that's crazy soldier talk. I just want everyone to see the kind underlying violent tone that your rhetoric is saturated in.

I'm signing off this thread before I say anything further that will incite negative attention from the mods and get points docked. You all have fun.

Your best line of the whole post. Considering some of what you have said to me could be construed as threatening, ATS points shouldn't be the only thing you're worried about losing.

peace

Liquid, if the rape ratio for soldiers in Iraq mirrors the ratio for American society, how can you construe that to think that soldiers are all [insert whatever here] but regular Americans are not?

Originally posted by jakyll

The rest come from figures and reports released by the Department of Defense and other government/military agencies.

And just for you i'll repost what i did several pages back seen as you obviously can't be bothered to read anything properly.

Actually, I did read everything properly.

I have yet to see a link to the alleged "figures and reports released by the Department of Defense and other government/military agencies".

I have seen reports of these figures from less than reliable "news" sources.

Please provide the links to the actual "reports released by the Department of Defense and other government/military agencies" so you can change my mind about all this.

Even reading the reports fromt the sources listed in this post, I see numbers like 3 women here, 5 women there. While even ONE rape or sexual assault is too many, I have yet to see any "reports released by the Department of Defense and other government/military agencies" showing the high numbers claimed.

reply to post by SuperViking


Look, you have better chance as a woman in the military of being raped than not, based on some of the reports already posted in this thread. You have a better chance of being raped than killed by a roadside bomb or enemy fire. Rape is considered normal in the military.

I'm willing to bet the number of rapes occurring in "American society" by (ex)soldiers to not is pretty high. No one seems to want to address that.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
reply to post by SuperViking

 

Look, you have better chance as a woman in the military of being raped than not,

That's not true.

based on some of the reports already posted in this thread.

Well, that would be a problem with those reports.

You have a better chance of being raped than killed by a roadside bomb or enemy fire.

That's debatable. You have more of a chance of dying in a car accident in the States then you do in Iraq, so that doesn't mean very much.

Rape is considered normal in the military.

Are you in the military?

I'm willing to bet the number of rapes occurring in "American society" by (ex)soldiers to not is pretty high. No one seems to want to address that.

No one wants to address something you just made up? How old are you? Militray (retired or not) make up less than 1% of the American population. Are you seriously claiming that they are skewing? the statistics to such an extent?

reply to post by SuperViking

That's not true.

Actually as i said, based on some reports in this thread, that IS true.
Here I'll REPOST the results of that comprehensive study, next time though try and follow the thread.

A 2004 study of veterans from Vietnam and all wars since, conducted by psychotherapist Maureen Murdoch and published in the journal Military Medicine, found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving.

source

Well, that would be a problem with those reports.

So the reports are wrong cuz you said so? It seems like a pretty thorough report to me. Maybe you have some of your own research that you can share. I can't wait to see it. I just know you're gonna school all these crazy psychotherapists, researchers, and rape victims with your official report.

You have more of a chance of dying in a car accident in the States then you do in Iraq, so that doesn't mean very much.

You must have just got here.......This thread is about rape not car accidents. Let's try and stay on topic.

Are you in the military?

Nope, but I don't have to be to recognize that if the majority of women in the military have to deal with this on some level(as the reports suggest), then it's by definition considered the norm. Here's a link to the definition of the word normal in case you don't believe me. Normal

No one wants to address something you just made up?

I haven't made up any facts. I'm simply asking if rapes happening here are the result of people who have been subjected to the military/war environment, and if so how often is that the case. I think it's totally a legitimate question for this thread. Don't you?

How old are you?

Don't see how it makes a dif, but my date of birth is in my profile if you really care...you gonna bake me a cake? It's comin up.

Are you seriously claiming that they are skewing? the statistics to such an extent?

I'm suggesting they have a bigger impact on the amount of rapes occurring than most other demographics. Check my source to see how many rape cases go unreported, aren't investigated, or aren't prosecuted. I'd imagine that skews your numbers a bit.

some 80 percent of military rapes are never reported, as the Pentagon itself acknowledges.

It's a real shame, what you're defending here....
And totally illogical to believe that someone who spends time in war is as well adjusted as an average citizen at home. Where are you guys coming from with all of this?

reply to post by jakyll


Obviously you chose to ignore the articles I linked to. Let me post one of the quotes again to see if can find its way into your narrow mind.

51-60% of college men report they would rape a woman if they were certain that they would get away with it. One out of twelve college men surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape;

This thread is about US soldiers who rape,not all US soldiers.

REALLY? Then were are all your posts trying to explain why these rapes occur. Anyone who offers reasons for why these rapes occure you attack as morally obtuse.

This thread is also not about another countries military..

Obviously then, you know absolutely nothing about reasearch, because unless you compare the group in question to similiar groups, all of your observations are meaningless dribble, unless your own goal is to ridicule them. Parasites are more honorable creatures.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206

A 2004 study of veterans from Vietnam and all wars since, conducted by psychotherapist Maureen Murdoch and published in the journal Military Medicine, found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving.

source

That seems to be the part that a lot of people in this thread are missing. They are not just including rape in that number there. They are also including sexual assault which can be something as innocent as a male soldier squeezing a female soldier's shoulder and she decides that it's unwanted sexual attention. A guy can wink at a girl and she can say it's unwanted sexual attention. I'm not saying that rape doesn't happen in the military, it does. But to say that almost 3 in 4 female veterans has been raped when your own source clearly states it's rape and sexual assault is just asinine.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


Sure I have asked questions, important questions, you just don't have the intelligence necessary to recognize them.

If you bothered to pay any attention to the facts that have been presented, then you would recognize that a college male is far more likely to rape a woman than a male U.S. soldier. That is a pretty sad indicator for college going males. What college did you go to?

Women should take note that when choosing to date a soldier or a college graduate, the odds are far higher that the college graduate is a rapist.

Quick, there is a bigoted hypocrit in your bathroom, go look.

reply to post by Jenna


You may have a point, but another 80% of cases never get reported, even the pentagon admits that. That's a pretty terrible stat, maybe even worse, because it certainly can't lower the 71% figure.

It really doesn't make me feel any better separating rape and sexual assault tho, either way, it's the same type of behavior. Everyone who's followed what I've said knows I'm not just slamming the military for rape, but their overall behavior, which sexual assault clearly falls into. I'm still not sure what you guys are arguing against here? You think members of the military don't exhibit a personality type and behavior associated with a lot of effed up stuff, in more frequency than most other groups. Astounding.

reply to post by poet1b


Uhhhhhg....I would love for you to enlighten me and repost even one ? in any of your posts directed at Liquidsmoke206, other than your latest which asks what college i went to.

And why can't you understand that college males and military overlap quite often thus making whatever stat you have inaccurate. Further more, you don't have any stats asking military males if they could rape and get away with it would they? What makes you think the % would be lower? And what makes you think none of the guys in that survey were in the military? Did you ever consider that even if college guys are more likely to rape it's simply because there are more potential victims, and more opportunities(parties etc..). Military are under close watch way more, and still have an insanely high frequency of rape.

I'd tell any woman dating a military man that she's got a much higher chance of dating some one with issues associated with alcohol, violence, suicide, PTSD, and a slew of other problems. And I'd be right.