How should we help the lower income people?

Why is it that in this country helping the poor through goverment programs is seen in such a bad light? Helping the poor is bad, is amounts to socialism and things of that nature is said in these boards on a daily basis.

Many of the people that say this come from a party that proud themselves of their high moral and religious values... Isn't a good thing to help those in need? Wasn't that one of those things that Jesus did and preach about throughout his life?

What have you done personally of late to help some of those in need? What about the social responsibility that we should have to help others? We can give bailouts to the rich, we can let them run the retirement pension plans of many hardworking people to the ground while they descend in golden parachutes, and then get tax cuts, tax credits for 8 years, while people lose their jobs, lose their house, lose their retirement... LOSE EVERYTHING!!

Nah... but is never the rich folk fault, they are too smart in the eyes of many, they should be respected and adulated...is the poor folk that made the decision of investing in the stock market, is the hard working fella that shouldn't have taken the loan, is the poor folk that is at fault for not been born with a silver spoon to his mouth.

Now we have to come to the rescue of this private companies that WHERE FORCED to give these loans to these poor people, that where FORCED to package this loans and sell them to BIG investment companies, that where FORCED to create DERIVATIVES in their hope to maiximize their profits creating a speculative and unregulated market of TRILLIONS of dollars.... what a bunch of CRAP.

And while we have gave them billions in tax cuts, and billions in bailouts some people CRY foul when is suggested that we should also help those whose life have been ruined by these highly respected and adulated individuals and companies.

Please someone explain me what we should do to help those who need help during these tough economic times? or should we not help them at all?

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Bunch]

well i donate to places like food shelves etc, this really in my eyes is the best way to help people , welfare just promotes thee people to stay down and out, once there onthe system they get penalized for getting off it..

Private industry like food shelves and other non profits can take care of people in better ways than any form of government welfare, to really assist in people helping these organizations they should get a double tax break or some reduced incentive to help others, this will lessen the dependency on government programs making it more efficient and the small organizations have a easier time policing abusers and actually have incentives to get people working and back into the swing of things.

I'm by no means rich or poor but would like to do more, but I have to take care of my family too.

I however also feel that some people do abuse the assistance that out there today and that has to be stopped to actually help the people that are trying to help themselves.

Originally posted by E-ville
I however also feel that some people do abuse the assistance that out there today and that has to be stopped to actually help the people that are trying to help themselves.

Thanks for your response!

I also see this to be true, there should be a way to better account who should get help and for what amount of time, granted that exceptions should be granted for periods of economic distress such at this.

Why do you think that we can actually help 'them', when the majority of us need help too.

The dissolution of the middle class is occurring rapidly and on a large scale, in my opinion. Nothing that 'we' can do will make them have a higher income, unless we ourselves are willing to risk going to a lower income. And then who will help us?

we can stop our government from funding and controlling the drug trade throughout the country, which they control, and then flood low income areas with drugs corrupting their communities and causing mass distruction and violence, which then they uses as an excuse to impression and punish these low income poor users who were tricked and decieved into using a substance that was ultimately provided to them by the same government who spends hundreds of billions to imprison these low income people, totally destroying their families and communities, and in turn profiting off these peoples incarcerations with the creation of private for profit prisons.

so how should we help the lower income people? simple..... Legalize drugs, and stop our government from profiting immensely from every single aspect of the situation

just my two cents.

Originally posted by agent violet
Why do you think that we can actually help 'them', when the majority of us need help too.

The dissolution of the middle class is occurring rapidly and on a large scale, in my opinion. Nothing that 'we' can do will make them have a higher income, unless we ourselves are willing to risk going to a lower income. And then who will help us?

And your are right, with the rapid dissolution of the middle class that would mean that more people would need help to get back on their feet.

The point that I'm trying to make with these thread is that you can see in the near future with all the job losses, layoffs, lower wages that we might see and considerable amount of people going from higher middle class to lower middle class, from lower middle class to poor and at some points from higher middle class straight to poor, people are going to need help.

And while we are been brainwahsed to accept the bailouts to the rich as "fundamental" to the survival of the WORLD, for some reason helping those who have received the short end of the stick should get no help because that would be socialism.

So is not socialism to bail out private companies but is socialism to help private citizens?

reply to post by Bunch



Good post and you're to be commended on the title ' How should we help the lower income people ? '

I like the 'how should we help' ... rather than 'should we help'.

Every bit helps. Donating to Salvation Army or to Opportunity Shops (don't know what they're called in the US, but they're depots where you can donate used furniture, toys, clothing .. anything at all).

And for those who are unable right now to donate in the material sense, why not just extend a smile to those who look like they need it ?

I go out of my way to smile .. really smile (but doesn't have to be a big tooth thing) at elderly folk. They're often very poor and tend to try to blend into the ground. There's a very old lady I pass a few times a week. She goes shopping when it's not busy. She's very shy and timid. Tiny little woman who can hardly walk. Took ages before she smiled back. For a long time, when I smiled and said 'hello', she looked surprised, as if wondering why anyone would spend a second on her. But now she smiles when she sees me coming down the road and it's nice .. for me .. and I hope for her too, just the acknowledgement. She was young and fit once, no doubt. Had her problems and sorrows. But in this fast paced world, we sometimes forget the elderly .. don't even see them.

So yes, just a smile -- if that's all you have to give --- can be a real gift to those who're feeling lonely, sad, down and excluded.

Otherwise .. give whatever you can in whichever form you can. Every bit helps

how about fixing the economy and wages so people of lower income can afford to raise their children and own homes. all the inflated housing prices and cost of living makes it so hard for people to live the american dream. for example my parents first home was $65,000 in 1985 in a nice neighborhood. now i would have to move to a one room shack in the ghetto to get anything close to that price.

Mandate that all jobs require GED education or above. All diplomas must be from accredited places not receive your diploma in the mail BS. Of course there will be an exception time frame to ensure that illiterate people have ample time to attain their education. Maybe waivers could be given for extreme cases. Education is the key to future successes especially since we revolve around technology.

Quit sending people to prison for drug use and start making an example out of those selling the big stuff. Too many times you see the big chief getting away while the little fish does the time. Rehabilitation would be better option.

Unite with faith based organizations to help rebuild and revitalizes inner cities. Give incentives to any business, small or big, that is willing to create jobs in those zones.

As part of a deal to get benefits they have to attend meetings dealing with managing credit, budgeting, being employable, self responsibility and others along same line.

To help the poor we have to change their mentality. In my view and experience most have a real negativism about themselves and feel that they are destined to be poor for life. This is a changeable attitude that could lead to a better society.

Well an often overlooked thing is that we have been fighting poverty since 1964, The War On Poverty. To date somewhere around 10+ trillion dollars has been spent fighting the war on poverty. Here is a link to an analysis on it

www.humanevents.com...

And just to try to be non biased about it

www.csmonitor.com...

So what we have is the redistribution of wealth to the tune of 10+ trillion dollars in the span of 40 years. Throwing more money at the problem isn't going to work, as it has been tried and has pretty much not gotten anywhere. The percentages might look like it, but you also have to look at the influx of people we have and you see that ruffly the same amount of people are poor.

One thing to realize is that there will always be poor people, there is noway around that. For there not to be any poor people you would have to live in an Utopian society that doesn't exist and will never exist. There will always be a middle class and rich people as well.

There are lots of jobs out there(when the economy is good), but people that need a job do not want to do them, and then comes the illegal immigrant problem into play, a lot of these people are willing to do the jobs that other people don't want to do.

As technology progresses there will be less of a need for physical labor and bigger need for technicians, engineers, and mechanics. Along with the obvious doctors, nurses, EMT's, jobs that computers and robots can't do.

So what we need to do is dramatically revamp the way we do things.

First we need to de-nationalize our education system, and get the government out of education. One set curriculum for the whole country doesn't work, we need different curriculum's specialized to the environment. Along with a new teaching philosophy, I like the way Swiss teach they actually teach less material through out the year and spend more time on the material that is taught, that way the kids actually learn and retain what they learn, instead of the memorize, regurgitate, forget that is all too common.

With the technology becoming a major player in the job market we are going to need thinkers. So we need to teach kids how to think critically.

We also need to expand the job market, such as legalizing all drugs, although coc aine, heroin, opium, all the hard drugs need to be heavily regulated, but it will free up jail and prison space, along with freeing up lots of money in the federal budget, which in turn will lower taxes, all tough I favor a flat or fair tax type system. More money in the peoples pockets the more people spend the more jobs there are. We already have a semi nanny state that deals with the addicts it is called jail and prison. I also think that use will dramatically drop because it will lose its allure.

Of course this is going to take a few generations to solve, but I think if we reduce the amount of social programs and make it to where people have to work to survive then that will make families stick together as they will all have to work together to get through the hard times, they will have a good work ethic because the will have to work to get by, and they will concentrate on their education more because a good education will help them succeed in life.

Will it work who knows, but I do know one thing keep trying the same thing over and over expecting different results is insane. I forgot who said that but that is a pretty smart statement.

First, get rid of the illegals.
Yes, hiring citizens who demand rights and at least minimum wage will raise the cost of everything, but in the end will cost much less than social welfare, that hasn't allowed anyone to get out of it since it started. Now we have generations who have never worked for a living, but followed their parents and grandparents on the dole.
Second, bring the jobs back from overseas.
You may think the wealthy are evil, but when the bankers and politicians got together and made it imperative for large companies to outsource or be underbid and out of business, that was the death knoll for U.S. workers.
With the collapse of the economy, these two little items will be available, if not necessary very, very soon.

You know when I'll help the poor?

When the government institute mandatory drug testing for welfare.

I have to pass a drug test to work. Shouldn't they have to pass a drug test to sit?

When I know that my dollar is going to someone deserving...That's when I'll monetarily help the poor.

What would be nice is if these rich mofo's "Golden parachutes" were seized and that money donated in full to non profit, non government agencies who work with the poor and homeless. But I still attest that these groups shouldn't help people who cant pass a drug test.

We have no recourse to help the poor, until such a point as we get realistic and end a global agenda and get ourselves a regional agenda...


I am a Republican, i believe in a strong military, but we are spread across the world and the cost is too much...

It's time for the world to handle it's own issues, we have no natural enemies if we seek only to deal with out continent.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Our Bases in Asia and Europe and elsewhere cost us around 4 Billion Every week, supply lines, transportation...


It's time to end Nato, withdraw to our continent, defend our shores, better maintain our equipment and use our troops to work on Our soil for causes that benefit us directly

We lost a City a few years back to a hurricane lol and had hundreds of thousands of Men stationed overseas and no one to prop up the City against ...sigh, Wind and Rain

There is actually no calculating the cost of being Global Policeman

Money into Social Programs is infinitesimal compared to military spending and it's ... not our back yard, The Middle East is Russia and Europes problem, Russia is Europes Problem, China Is Japan and Taiwans and South Koreas problem, Maybe Australia...

No One spends the money we do... and the threat actually isn't to us...

North America is Not going to be invaded no matter what the out come of any conflicts in Europe and Asia, the Result would be MAD for anyone and I think even a super empire would know, occupation of The USA and Canada would be ridiculous, Russia Couldn't handle Afghanistan any more than we can... let alone a continent and together the USA Canada and Mexico is a Continent


Even the 2 Billion back a week we spend just in the current war would alter everything

Everything would cost less if we brought our toys home or local where it was cheep to supply them and keep them running right and we would be better defended

We have local military priorities and issues to deal with also

Plenty of Civil Engineering projects could be worked on, waterways, roads, irrigation, desalinization, lots of areas of infrastructure the military could help with.

Disaster aid

Fortification of the Panama canal region or building a second better Canal

Protection of our coasts, shipping inspection for bombs or other plots,

There is a new sea potentially opening up above Canada to be patrolled

If there are foreign nations to pressure or conflicts to address... Cuba and Venezuela come to mind if we are going to be aggressive long before Iraq and Iran



Return to our stance, politics (some of them at least) and Military presence prior to the world wars and watch America be a Creditor Nation with hardly any social under class and a strong middle class in a matter of years, not decades, years

I am low income, and I live in low income housing, plus get a few foodstamps. I ended up on disability, I worked very hard all my life and would still rather work, but I can't. Not in the factory jobs I've always worked, and I can't stay at this puter very long either, and if I did go back to work at the wages that we have, and the rent in the area I live, I wouldn't be any better off financially. Every time I get a cost of living raise, in which last year was, wooo hoo, 2.5%, gave me a whole 16 dollars more a month. This year, we finally get a 5.8% when COS is 10% or more, it helps, don't get me wrong. Then when we do get a raise, the rent goes up and food stamps down. It is a catch 22 with low income. And yes, I do agree that a lot of people take advantage and rip off the tax payer in which use to piss me off too. But I payed in to my social security.
I really don't like this, but I do not take advantage. I make it barely, but I make it, I was taught how to live on minimum wage and shi### ass jobs, there is a way around it, by having a mother and family that lived through the depression, with almost nothing but themselves cows, garden, chickens, all the God given things that most people take advantage of. And I'm just trying to make a point here before I say what I'm about to say. I'm just giving myself as an example.

All you have to do to help is donate to the food banks in your area, if you can afford it, if you can't you can't, I even feel bad that I can't, but I do donate to the gleaners with stuff I don't use anymore. Clean out your garage and donate to a non-profit charity that gives their stuff to the homeless or the truly downtrodden, that way, they can eat at least one night or two, and have warm clothes for the winter. The homeless are in tent cities everywhere, it is getting a little scary. We need more homeless shelters. But, on the other hand, some people like it that way, or that was their chosen path in this lifetime. And I have noticed, that most of the poor, are poorly educated, as in the dumbing down of america, and they have no choice but to work in low income jobs that is also a catch 22. Been there done that too. I even tried to go back to college 3 times, and it was like God said, nope, that aint happenin either.

We all have our own paths to learn from, and some people just don't get it, and end up very poor and mismanage their money, get depressed, get on drugs, have sex, have babies, don't think about the cost of babies till they lose their jobs and lose their kids cause their on drugs and ended up homeless. On and on. It is just a menagerie of humans and poorness, and most of the poorness is caused by the elite of the world that think we are pieces of sh## that don't deserve any better so we continue to be their slaves whilst they sit back and laugh and say, look how well our sheep aren't doing, and boy are we doing a good job of it

This is a merry-go-round and people have to learn how to step off of it and start using common sense with their resources. But until they do that, we have to, with our kindest of hearts and souls, do what we can to even help a little, even if we think some don't deserve it. That is just the way the cookie crumbles and we are better humans for doing that for the ones less fortunate than even I. I live off a little over 700 a month, am single and have to most of the time stay home because the gas prices bout ate me up just going 25 miles cause I own a ship of a car, but, it is paid for. There are ways around being poor, but you have to cut corners to live and be happy that you have a roof over your head and food to eat and clothes to wear, I feel very, very fortunate that I don't need help,(except the food stamps) but I truly feel for those that do, I've been through hell and back, and if it weren't for places like the food banks and welfare, I wouldn't be where I'm at now.
I couldn't imagine being homeless. I appreciate everything I have.

Elect Obama!

Why, because there's allot of black kids that will know that they can become anything, once an African American becomes President.

There's no reason we can't feed people in America who need help - either to get back on their feet or for those who are disabled. Support your local food bank.

People need an education and they need to believe they can succeed.

Our schools pretty much abandon people after they become adults. There are too many adults who slipped through the cracks. There's no reason we can't educate everyone.

Instead of complaining and blaming people while having a beer with your buddies at the bar every Friday((or here at ATS), how about mentoring some troubled kid or giving them a job so they can learn to be successful?


[edit on 28-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

how about fixing the economy and wages so people of lower income can afford to raise their children and own homes. all the inflated housing prices and cost of living makes it so hard for people to live the american dream. for example my parents first home was $65,000 in 1985 in a nice neighborhood. now i would have to move to a one room shack in the ghetto to get anything close to that price.

Stop telling your young people that they have to go into debt to fund their American Dream.

Your relentless pursuit of the "American" dream is what has so many of you in the trouble you are in now.

I lived most of my life in America and I know full well the pressure to conform by buying a house, having a nice car, taking out student loans - it doesn't have to be like that. I am grateful that my parents taught me that the measure of my worth has nothing to do with how big my house is, or what kind of car I drive.

The Swiss are some of the richest people in Europe, they also have one of the lowest home ownership rates in Europe. People rent their homes all their lives and it doesn't take away from the quality of their lives one bit.

Want to help the poor and the soon to be poor? Stop telling them they have to "own" a home in order to be fulfilled. Stop telling the young people that the only way to a successful life is to go into massive debt to fund an "education". Stop telling your children that "insert sport star's name here" is a hero and should be emulated.

The only people who have ever profited from the "American Dream" have been the banks - Wake up!

reply to post by Merigold


well call me a "brainwashed" american, but all i want is a decent piece of that pie. i'm happy to work for it, just don't charge me so much for it!

I think instead of welfare the government should fill government positions with people on public assistance,these job's that menial tasks ,cleaning up areas,somewhat like the people doing public service,at least they can say they worked for their money,now the disabled ones possibly they have some motor skills to do clerical or some other kind of dutys,the government can save money instead of paying workers about 43 dollars an hour,which when you figure in benifits,would save money and get same results

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
how about fixing the economy and wages so people of lower income can afford to raise their children and own homes. all the inflated housing prices and cost of living makes it so hard for people to live the american dream. for example my parents first home was $65,000 in 1985 in a nice neighborhood. now i would have to move to a one room shack in the ghetto to get anything close to that price.

Fixing wages through minimum wage doesnt help anything once you fix a wage prices will risem and if you start fixing prices, then companies will simply stop making those products , because they will have production costs that are higher than the sale price of the item..

The free market works, its not the problem the problem that government robs from the people that have marginal incomes to create welfare systems that are endless and abused. eliminat the abuse and there will be more money to go around the system to actually help peopl that are down and out. Untill the abuseis corrected any welfare system will never work.

Well i am a poor man with kids
Worked 50 to 60 hours a week for over 12 year's
Lifting 100+ pounds continuously all day
for 8.00 a hour.

Oh did i mention i never was a full time employee. after 12 years
Part of whats wrong with America
The second my back went out from all the lifting..and i needed a back operation from workers comp.
i was fired.

Now my wife has to be the bread winner as a R.N.
But what if she didn't have a good job?
That's right we would be homeless and starving.

the maximum you can make to draw foot stamps in my state is 300 dollars a month.
Can you imagine making 300 dollars a month total..and pay your bills still get to work..it will never work folks.
5 dollars a hourx40= 200x3 =600
rent is 300 minimum
then gas
utility's
cloths for kids and school stuff
food

if you can see my point them poor people are poor not because they are lazy..
it's shear math..there is almost no way to dig out of the hole.

a person would have to work basically 2 jobs at minimum wage
to even be able to save for a home to buy.

Some are not as fortunate to be born with the ability to get into college or get grants.
Have rich family to always fall back on.


Nothing can ever be done at this point.
Poor will always stay poor
as the rich get richer
that's life folks