The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Creative Destruction Is Not All Bad

From Bloomberg:

Smaller firms are emerging from the wreckage of the world’s largest financial companies, which are conserving capital following more than $1.2 trillion of writedowns and credit losses since the start of 2007. They’re luring traders with a shot at $500,000 commissions for two days’ work as banks that accepted federal bailouts retrench and slash bonuses.

Right.

Its called a partnership, where your skin is in the game and when you screw up, you eat it.

This is distinct from where you tap the "capital markets" with public stock offerings, install boards that can ignore shareholders, have 90% of your float held by mutual funds that get BJs from hookers hired by the boards, and as such are free to pay out all of the firm's equity (and more) in bonuses while the traders make decisions that only work for a short time, then blow the company to hell.

Prime examples of "doing it wrong" are Tanzillo at Countryside, Bear Stearns, AIG, Lehman, and the ultimate "writ large" idiocy of having risk divorced from reward, Fannie and Freddie.

In a partnership this sort of nonsense doesn't happen because the partners are the ones with their nuts on the line, and those become roasted chestnuts if they allow something stupid to happen.

So they don't.

This is how those "geniuses" should be working - either as partners or under partners who have a very keen eye for risk, because it is their checkbook and house in the Hamptons that is backing and at risk if the "cowboys" go off the reservation.

I am all about people taking risk - innovation is how we became a great nation, and there's nothing wrong with it not only in industry but also in finance - but you cannot allow risk-taking where the person taking the risk is divorced from the person who bears the consequence when the bet goes bad.

reply to post by xoxo stacie


That means they are going to start a world war to do it then. They have to have trillions and trillions worth of capital to start any currency, when it comes to a Global Currency it will have to be linked to something, i.e. precious metals.

Then they have to get countries to go along with it. It isn't already done it is just a plan is all it is. Just like the Patriot Act and whatever other bills they have stashed away waiting for the right time to push the legislation.

People might be asleep, but they aren't dumb. They know the implications of a Global Currency and that means an end to countries sovereignty. A Global Currency won't ever fly they can try to push it all they want, but it wont ever take.

Sure they might start a world war, but that is just going to hinder their plans even more. You have to remember the people pushing for this stuff aren't geniuses, some of them might be, but they are still human. Which means even they can get it wrong. Which they are doing right now.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

UPDATE 1-IMF revamps lending, creates new credit line
www.reuters.com...

UPDATE 1-Fed will start buying Treasuries on Wednesday
www.reuters.com...

UPDATE 1-Citi reverse split could keep it in Dow-DJ Indexes
www.reuters.com...

Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,686.97 3:52pm ET -88.89 (-1.14%)
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,669.61 3:54pm ET -106.25 (-1.37%)
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,661.88 3:56pm ET -113.98 (-1.47%)
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,659.41 3:57pm ET -116.45 (-1.50%)
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,656.70 3:57pm ET -119.16 (-1.53%)
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,660.13 4:01pm ET -115.73 (-1.49%)

S&P 500 INDEX,RTH 809.28 3:52pm ET -13.64 (-1.66%)
S&P 500 INDEX,RTH 806.14 4:01pm ET -16.78 (-2.04%)

Well so much fer the break out above 800 today...875? hhhmmm...

NASDAQ Composite 1,516.53 4:02pm ET -39.24 (-2.52%)

Trending lower...


Wonder what's up with this?

Total's Port Arthur, TX, refinery cuts unconfirmed
www.reuters.com...

Valero says Corpus FCC shut, maybe indefinitely
www.reuters.com...

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Wondering if the production cuts have anything to do with the new "border control" plans that the Big O and his Merry Bunch of Thieves announced this am?
Not sure...doesn't ring true for some reason.

BK OF AMERICA CP 7.28 4:07PM ET -0.52 (-6.67%) 521,792,797
CITIGROUP INC 3.00 4:07PM ET -0.13 (-4.15%) 519,011,874
JP MORGAN CHASE CO 26.39 4:10PM ET -2.47 (-8.56%) 132,435,521

MORGAN STANLEY 25.12 4:11PM ET 0.69 (2.82%) 82,267,471
(only +)
US FDIC hires JPMorgan exec to advise on auctions
www.reuters.com...

WELLS FARGO & CO NEW 15.55 4:11PM ET -1.78 (-10.27%) 166,575,582
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Gold $925.25
Oil $53.57
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GBP $1.4668
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New Highs 17 8 13 87
New Lows 94 35 28 609

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

The market is recovering!! YAY!!!

Wow financials took a beating today. So do you think they are going to be able to sucker any investors into this sca... er plan Timmy the Tax Cheat cooked up?

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


You don't need war to change a currency...

And you don't technically need it to be backed by anything either.

The European Union's Euro is a perfect example.. the Euro is implemented not during war time, and on top of that it is not backed by Gold either.

The way a World Reserve Currency would work is that essentially the major economic powers would adopt a specific currency, probably a new one, established identical to the EU's Euro. A Central Bank would be established, independent of any specific country, and the Currency would then be printed based upon specific Nations GDP. Quite like the Euro .. Each Euro has a serial number, and in the number identifies the country of origin (not all Euro's are the same, surprise!). For instance France has it's own specific number of Euro's printed with it's own serial based on the amount of Production that state does. Germany, Spain, Italy, etc all have the same guidelines. The actual value of the currency based on the world's FOREX is using the culmination of the nations GDP as a group -- which is good and bad. For one, smaller Nations like Luxumberg and Ireland with higher GDP and Per Capita incomes create a stronger Euro, while larger states like France and Italy would actually assist in devaluing the Euro, but since your taking everyone's production and bringing out an average, the smaller states raise the average for the bigger states.

Your concerns you posted in reply to me on the last place are unfounded, simply due to the fact that investors can take cash out of a state for any reason, at anytime, through a currency exchange, or simply taking that currency with them. They can still "take the wealth" right out of a country if they so desired, even with every nation having it's own currency.

If the Currency was backed by Gold, this would be ideal.. it's sets an international standard. If a nation is wealthy, it's simply because it actually has wealth, it has Gold.. which you cannot get Gold by spending, only through saving, by producing, by trading on a surplus.. thus, you generate capital. Through capital is wealth, investment, etc.

I Declare VICTOLY!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e64620524b96.jpg[/atsimg]

Honestly though things shall be interesting tomorrow.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well, the concern is that a fiat currency wouldn't survive as a world currency. And I believe when they are talking about a global currency they are talking about a complete replacement, of everybody's currency, or a lesser plan I think would be what they were talking about is a currency not actually held by any country but independently held and just used for international trade.

The problem with a gold backed global currency is that there is only so much gold, it isn't abundant.

Also, yes people can take wealth out of a country, but they can't do it on the scale that the issuer of the currency can. The issuer of that currency could easily take it out of the country by not even buying it.

Not only that but then it doesn't solve the problem. We still have the same problems of today by the currency not being regulated by the countries issuer. We would be at the mercy of what ever the issuer of the country would want.

Globalism is collapsing right before our eyes, planned or unplanned doesn't matter. The world is to big and too complex for anything like that to survive. There is also a whole host of other problems that go along with it.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply to post by Tentickles
How'd ya like the "Vietnam Dong Falls Most Since December as Central Bank Widens Trading Band" post?


(I'm still laughin'...)
===
...and a total wrap of today...

New Zealand 2635.33 43.91 1.69% 17:31
Australia 3517.30 34.20 0.98% 16:47
Nikkei 225 8488.30 272.77 3.32% 16:00
TOPIX 812.72 21.16 2.67% 15:00
TSE 2nd Sec 1843.80 23.13 1.27% 15:00
JASDAQ 40.84 0.44 1.09% 15:00
Korea 1221.70 22.20 1.85% 18:04
Taiwan 5242.18 118.00 2.30% 13:46
Taiwan OTC 76.91 0.96 1.26% 13:46
Shanghai 2338.42 12.94 0.56% 15:14
Shanghai A 2454.55 13.59 0.56% 15:14
Shanghai B 153.33 0.68 0.45% 15:14
Shenzhen A 815.06 5.19 0.64% 15:00
Shenzhen B 345.95 2.65 0.77% 15:00
SHSZ 300 2451.78 12.39 0.51% 15:01
Shenzhen comp 8954.84 69.09 0.78% 15:00
Hong Kong 13910.34 462.92 3.44% 16:01
HK CN Ent 8063.29 103.38 1.30% 16:01
HK Aff Crp 3150.99 60.86 1.97% 16:01
Singapore 1706.34 42.26 2.54% 17:10
SGX China 51.65 -0.19 -0.37% 03/24
Vietnam 270.62 10.46 4.02% 11:01
Thailand 438.16 -0.01 -0.00% 16:59
Philippines 1917.69 38.60 2.05% 12:11
Malaysia 877.92 -0.38 -0.04% 19:21
Indonesia 1436.12 29.47 2.09% 16:00
India 9471.04 47.02 0.50% 15:58
Pakistan 4763.63 186.71 4.08% 14:44
===
Russia 721.64 -15.55 -2.11% 03/24
London 3911.46 -41.35 -1.05% 16:35
Paris 2874.39 4.82 0.17% 18:13
Frankfurt 4187.36 10.99 0.26% 18:42
Turkey 25001.59 82.33 0.33% 17:09
Hungary 10679.98 -122.83 -1.14% 16:36
Austria 1634.98 -53.56 -3.17% 17:35
Poland 24443.51 110.63 0.46% 16:40
Czech 778.80 13.90 1.82% 17:40
Sweden 654.12 -13.87 -2.08% 17:44
Finland 4716.75 -7.68 -0.16% 18:31
Norway 205.54 -4.08 -1.95% 17:25
Greece 1694.28 4.73 0.28% 17:19
Italy 12709.00 31.00 0.24% 17:51
Luxembourg 883.88 14.78 1.70% 17:40
Netherlands 221.47 0.57 0.26% 18:08
Iceland 215.07 -27.35 -11.28% 16:40
Denmark 229.34 -0.20 -0.09% 17:21
Switzerland 4923.66 -7.41 -0.15% 17:30
Spain 840.12 4.40 0.53% 17:39
Portugal 2101.43 -31.75 -1.49% 17:08
Ireland 2138.83 -24.58 -1.14% 17:10
Israel 696.41 1.93 0.28% 16:29
Egypt 394.90 10.70 2.79% 14:42
S. Africa 19169.16 -334.54 -1.72% 17:00
Morocco 22636.52 -228.95 -1.00% 03/20
Jordan 2686.00 55.27 2.10% 14:59
UAE Dubai 1622.28 64.28 4.13% 13:58
===
United States 7660.21 -115.65 -1.49% 16:30
NASDAQ 1518.61 -37.16 -2.39% 16:22
Rus 2000 416.71 -17.01 -3.92% 16:12
S&P 500 806.36 -16.56 -2.01% 16:22
Gold & Silver 135.25 -2.54 -1.84% 16:07
PreMetals 270.95 -6.10 -2.20% 16:06
Gold GOX 161.61 -2.60 -1.58% 16:34
Gold Bugs 321.67 -7.16 -2.18% 16:33
AMEX Energy 455.14 -11.27 -2.42% 16:33
NYSE Energy 8853.32 -226.77 -2.50% 16:14
Oil Services 137.19 -3.48 -2.47% 16:07
AMEX Oil 893.58 -21.47 -2.35% 16:22
PHLX Semi. 228.50 -5.95 -2.54% 16:07
NASDAQ Fin. 1585.53 -112.14 -6.61% 16:22
NYSE Finance 2935.29 -170.39 -5.49% 16:14
NBI 675.19 -16.47 -2.38% 16:22
AMEX BioTec 637.50 -17.40 -2.66% 16:33
PHLX Drug 143.19 -2.35 -1.61% 16:19
Canada 8849.39 -109.12 -1.22% 16:22
Brazil 41486.46 -952.09 -2.24% 17:07
Mexico 20242.61 -103.82 -0.51% 15:05
Argentina 1124.56 55.03 5.15% 03/23
Chile 2542.00 -2.52 -0.10% 17:22
Peru 8349.34 191.58 2.35% 14:57
Colombia 8039.13 69.24 0.87% 12:59
Venezuela 42186.75 614.38 1.48% 15:00
Bermuda 2303.96 -100.04 -4.16% 16:44
Jamaica 79423.03 -251.44 -0.32% 13:59

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by redhatty
We are teh generation who gets to watch as our government completely disregards the Constitution and becomes a self-sustaining monster that is out to kill us all

Geithner Seeks Broad Power To Seize Firms

The Obama administration will ask Congress to give the Treasury secretary unprecedented powers to initiate the seizure of non-bank financial companies, such as large insurers, investment firms and hedge funds, whose collapse would damage the broader economy, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said this morning.

There is nothing in the Constitution that empowers the private sector to seek loopholes in every guideline issued by government regulators to keep operations save and prudent. The greed-causing financial anarchy loves to protect itself by the same lines that you use to defend the rotten practices that created this mess.

The government should have continued to look the other way after Lehman A-holes came in begging. But the Feds didn't have a policy and infrastructure to bypass the financial clog and keep supplying the economy with government money. Instead, they pumped money into a rotten system deviced by the greed. There is no much difference between a dude asking for a quarter to "get something to eat" just to have enough to buy him a dime of crack and AIG execs getting high on bonuses paid by those fearing lay-offs.

Just keep defending this crap . . .

stander vs redhatty?


Ringside seat & popcorn please.

reply to post by pause4thought
Holy Cow...what'd I miss?

Damn...can't reach the Popcorn from here...I'd have to set my Beer down...


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Gas $1.495


(ooooo 6900 points )

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


It's no joke, ringsiders are being issued with a suit of armour just to protect from flying limbs.

Those of a squeamish disposition are advised to bring a sick bag.

reply to post by pause4thought
WOW...guess I'll need to break out the saran wrap, to keep the carnage spewing from my screen stickin' to me...

...kinda like a Gallager Show?



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NZSE 50 2,635.333 3:15PM ET 0.000 (0.00%)

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by redhatty
We are teh generation who gets to watch as our government completely disregards the Constitution and becomes a self-sustaining monster that is out to kill us all

Geithner Seeks Broad Power To Seize Firms

The Obama administration will ask Congress to give the Treasury secretary unprecedented powers to initiate the seizure of non-bank financial companies, such as large insurers, investment firms and hedge funds, whose collapse would damage the broader economy, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said this morning.

There is nothing in the Constitution that empowers the private sector to seek loopholes in every guideline issued by government regulators to keep operations save and prudent. The greed-causing financial anarchy loves to protect itself by the same lines that you use to defend the rotten practices that created this mess.

The government should have continued to look the other way after Lehman A-holes came in begging. But the Feds didn't have a policy and infrastructure to bypass the financial clog and keep supplying the economy with government money. Instead, they pumped money into a rotten system deviced by the greed. There is no much difference between a dude asking for a quarter to "get something to eat" just to have enough to buy him a dime of crack and AIG execs getting high on bonuses paid by those fearing lay-offs.

Just keep defending this crap . . .

Umm Stander...????

Are you implying that *I* am defending this crap or the leechF***s in CONgress and the MSM are defending this crap?

the rest of my post had

Where are the pitchforks???

I am hard-pressed to see where that could be misconstrued as "defending this crap"

Looks like a peace delegation.

I want my money back.

I am pretty certain there will be a sell off of stock before earnings come out. My question is, with all these changes happening, will the banks earnings be overstated due to them cooking the books? And with this in mind, is it wise to short bank stocks once earnings are on the roll?

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
Ah...I wouldn't worry about it...BUY!!!

It's all over now...the Gov's gonna pump 'em till Rome burns...

...just watch fer them sneeking in the gas and matches...


Edit: Oooppps...sorry China has the matches...

Here's my thoughts..(Red line is now)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4095f5ecbe02.png[/atsimg]

[edit on 3/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

So now we are financing the debt/bailouts buy having the FED buy up the Treasuries...

Fed to Buy Treasuries Tomorrow as New Program Starts

The Federal Reserve will start purchasing long-term Treasuries tomorrow, aiming to bring down borrowing costs employing tools last used in the 1960s.

The first operation in the $300 billion effort is aimed at notes maturing from February 2016 to February 2019, the New York Fed Bank said in a statement today. In the coming nine days, the central bank plans to buy debt maturing between March 2011 and February 2039, according to the tentative schedule.

The purchases are part of Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke’s campaign to end the recession and stamp out the risk of deflation. Policy makers announced the step last week along with a plan to more than double purchases of housing debt to $1.45 trillion, hoping to reduce rates on home loans.

More at Link

Mish does a write up on this that is well worth the read