Islam: What the West needs to know.

Originally posted by dooper
Look, I don't want to start any religious argument. Yes, Christians have killed a lot of folks over the years. One big difference. They did it on their own, and not upon the directives of their prophet of their moon-god Allah.

What????? Did it on their own? Not as a directive from God? The crusades, witch trials, Inquisitions....

Here is just one example for you.

Manifest Destiny. The Native Americans were brutally slaughtered in huge numbers because GOD told christians that they must settle the West.

Originally posted by jprophet420


So the things carried out in the name of christianity are vile or the basis of the religion is vile? there is a huge difference. The basis of islam is 'kill whitey' in a nutshell. Of course there are the convert and enslave options, but thats pretty much how it goes down.

Can you please show me where the Quaran says kill whitey? I guess I missed that part.

reply to post by themuse


Link for doco attempt 2...

natgeotv.com.au...

Unfortunately, the West is being dumbed down to accept the spread of Islam without being allowed to protest, because it is not PC to do so.

The mouthpieces of Islam have already stated their intention, many times, to ultimately fly the flag of Islam over both the White House and 10 Downing street, and create a global caliphate, enforcing Sharia law on all of us.

Islam is like a cancer. It is subversive. They seek to destroy us from within.

reply to post by Old Man


Then I suppose David Koresh and Charles Manson speak for all white Christians.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Old Man

 

Then I suppose David Koresh and Charles Manson speak for all white Christians.

Absolutely not. Both of them had a handful of followers.


Islam has millions of fanatical followers.


It's not quite the same, you know.

Originally posted by Copernicus
I bet more people has died in the name of Christianity over the years than any other religion.

Are you sure you want to bet?

Islamic terrorism through the centuries

80 million Hindus mass murdered by Islamics.

Muslim Barbary Pirates killed and enslaved more than the American slave trade did.

some information on genocide

Information here on how Islam has been involved in the mass slaughter and ill-treatment of Jews around the world. - for religious reasons.

Even if you wish to discuss what Christians did 500 years ago ... that was 500 years ago. Take a look at religious wars and religious killings now - CURRENT Islamic terrorist attacks - based on religious extremism.







[edit on 9/28/2008 by FlyersFan]

As I stated before

Anyone who puts anothers way or person down and does it in the name of their own Way or person being superior is hypocritical of who they say they are.

A better 'Way' is not one built on judgement and misunderstanding and i urge people displaying this behaviour to redefine their honour'

I mean to make things move forward proactively understanding and intentions when acting is the key to resolving these issues.

MarkAkaSilent you stated
Does this sound like a peaceful and tolerant man to you? I don't think so.

Relate that to yourself for a second and see how you crack up to it.

Old Man - It's gettin' harder to know who you can trust these days...

Are you trust worthy yourself?

FlyersFan - Are you sure you want to bet?

Do you want to bet that youre not part of the solution only producing one sided info.

themuse

reply to post by themuse


There are many voices in the world today, claiming to proclaim the 'truth'.



I trust that Jesus is the truth.

Originally posted by Old Man
Islam is like a cancer. It is subversive. They seek to destroy us from within.

You trust Jesus is the truth and Islam is like a cancer and Charles Manson and David Koreshs 'handful of victims' isnt the same.

Seriously ANY victims in the name of a religion is the same. Human to Human Pain is Pain.

By opposing others beliefs you are infact doing exactly the same thing Islamic fanatics do or any other religion does when they dont validate yours or anothers way. Its all in the same pot of soup.

I dont know Jesus becoz i wasnt there when he was around, but im sure if he Truely was a Great Man he set about in ways that holistically dealt with differences and proactively moved things forward.

Each Person has to be responsible for they put out in the world. That Includes You.
Calling a whole religion a cancer likely offends many good people whom happen to be Moslem and doesnt help breaking a cycle of hate that desperately needs diffusion.

Ask yourself what would Jesus say to that statement.?

As an atheist, i'm gonna say this:


What is this thread about?

We have some people screaming about Islam being barbaric and the other half are muslims saying 'if you wanna learn more then go visit a mosque'...

Here's an idea.

Why don't the muslims go to a church for a few weeks and see how they feel, and the christians go visit a mosque and see how they feel.

The come back to this thread and start again.

OR both of you back down and accept your differences and realise that in any organised religion you will hate-mongers, idiots and people who abuse their positions of power.

My opinion. Why rely on an invisible entity to decide how you live? Why live on the words of long dead prophets when the world they existed in, has changed so much that the texts in both the bible and the Quran are almost null and void.

If you don't like my opinion, then that's fair enough, but i'm getting very sick of religious people having flame wars that solve nothing.

reply to post by mr-lizard

Hey mr-lizard

If you were referring to my posts, i want to clarify im neither moslem or christian. For the record I prefer to be accountable for my own actions and not have an external god as such.

I agree with what you say they should do church swap (make a great reality TV show and see how the other half lives. The perfect way to gain some insight into eachother and stop the conflict. Even if it is a war of words.

I merely meant to show that one isnt better than the other when it comes to bagging each other. The point being common ground is what we all need atm.

I guess i let this one get to me enough to get verbal. Whatchoocandoo.

themuse

I don't know anything in detail about what the Koran says, but I have had the opportunity to interrogate Muslims in the past and have come to these conclusions.

1. The Koran and Islam is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For those who don't know, the second tree in the Garden of Eden. It possesses a dual nature, which allows it to exist simultaneously as good or peaceful and evil or warlike.

An example: The Shahada or declaration of faith spoken by Muslims.

There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

There is no God, but Allah; Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah.

Depending on where punctuation is placed, the meaning of the sentence changes from one that could be considered acceptable to Christians, as in the first example, to one that is a rejection of God and an acceptance of something called Allah in the second sentence, otherwise known as an Act of War.

According to Muslims, as far as I can tell, Allah releases Gog / Magog unto the Earth and only pulls them back after Jesus supplicates. According to the book of revelation Satan leads Gog / Magog in war. This imperfectly identifies Satan and Allah as being the same entity, within the religious world.

For me I don't need to know anything further concerning Islam. But, it and any other religion with their books can just as easily be used for Evil, as they can for Good. Anton Levey and self proclaimed satanism is child's play compared to the Big Three western religious (Abrahamic) traditions as practiced by a well read and focused and malevolent religious scholar.

However, It's because of Muslims and their waves of suicide attacks against just about everyone in the world and their book, that I won't tolerate for any religion to exist in my immediate presence. They all possess that dual nature that I spoke of earlier. No book or religious figure can ever be trusted by the living and the free. They all have the ability to become traps meant to capture the souls and minds of men, and by extension, their bodies. So I don't participate in partisan religious wars and debates.


Nevertheless, their also seems to be some parts of them that may be useful for society, so if you realize the potential nature of religon and their adherents first before studying them, you can avoid capture and dissect the trap to better understand its mechanics. I accept religions for what they are and will let the universe determine their ultimate fate.

reply to post by bruxfain

They all possess that dual nature that I spoke of earlier. No book or religious figure can ever be trusted by the living and the free. They all have the ability to become traps meant to capture the souls and minds of men, and by extension, their bodies. So I don't participate in partisan religious wars and debates.

Nicely put a star for you.

I find that because the debates exist there is reason to give a 3rd view to these people that could make them cease the bickering and set the people free of the issue the limitation it brings.

I mean understanding and getting along in life has to start somewhere and definately nowadays we need to know our neighbours are the lest of our worries regardless of their religion.

I find it insane that 2 opposing beliefs can go at one another both citing truth and superiority and not realise how hypocritical it is of who they 'honorably claim to be. My hope is that if they realise the irony there will be a change in themselves to be honourable and make sure they dont contribute to the problem and become the better person. That being said I dont jump into many online religious debates at all infact this is my first one. IRL however if Ive got 2 people emiting bad energy between them if its not out of place i will attempt to show the irony and ask them to question their values.

If we let them fight amongst themselves with no solution on offer arent we enabling a bad situation and being ignorant to our choice to accept all ways?

I too am guilty of getting squawky in this thread today hmrz, so i have to apologise for not living what i say and also if ive been a meanie to anyone. Im a bit testy today. I mean no harm to anyone.

themuse

reply to post by SauberBMW

I know a man who was interested in Islam went to a Mosque and was escorted out and not allowed back in.

This took place in Canada.

By the way, when I left Canada, to work, I do not believe their was one Mosque in the city and now their are three. So Islam is spreading like a cancer here in Canada as well.

I find it funny that it was an Islamic collection of young men who wanted to storm Parliment and behead the Prime Minister....and not Christians or New Democrats or Liberals (lol) who take a different path of peace that does not include beheading the PM.

My own personal conversations with those who believe in Islam is alarming as they believe in Mahamad first or Ala...before thier family, or society.

very oppresive religion. (Christianity is oppresive as well)

www.telegraph.co.uk...

A Canadian man has been convicted of taking part in an Islamist plot to storm the country's parliament and behead the prime minister

[edit on 28-9-2008 by whiteraven]

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Old Man

 

Then I suppose David Koresh and Charles Manson speak for all white Christians.

We still do not know a lot about Koresh except for the fact that he was burned to death in Texas.

Charlie Manson never did try to bring religeon into his belief system. He was a result of the prison system, foster homes, the street with some Acid and a little CIA mind control.

I finded it very enlightning to read about testimonies of muslim apostates and their stories and view about islam. Did you knew that the penalty of apostasy in Islam is death?

www.faithfreedom.org...

Having never read my copy of the Koran (bought many years ago), and having only read parts of the Bible, despite attending a Christian school, I come to this topic in ignorance. I regret I've not made the effort to read them both. As a child I was disinclined to because I assumed the purpose of these texts was moral proscription. It seemed (and still seems) disastrous to derive moral precepts from any written text, ancient or modern. Narrative and allegory can suggest better ways of behaving and can inspire and enlighten but as such are only catalysts. Whether we reject or accept the ideas we find in them depends upon something pre-existing within ourselves (a conscience).

To approach a religious text as a fundamentalist, as the literal word of God, you would have to be convinced the text is both sacred and infallible. How would you come to that belief? Because your family, your church, your friends told you so? How did you arrive at the absurd idea that they were infallible?

Ancient religious texts are full of inconsistencies and often incoherent. They are only read in highly interpreted translations:
“About a fifth of Koranic passages make no sense at all!... If the Koran is not comprehensible, not even understood in Arabic, then it isn’t translatable.” Gerd-R. Puin, German scholar.
Even the most educated Arab speaking Muslims need some sort of translation to make sense of the Koran and the same applies for Christians reading the Bible.

Clearly for many there is something fatally attractive about putting faith in the infallibility of an ancient text. It removes the burden of exercising a conscience in the face of uncertainty.

Anyone see an opening here for the politically powerful and astute to exploit the gullible and the weak?

As I said, I'm not qualified to enter the theological debate as to which text contains the least warlike sentiments. Interpretation and practice take precedence - so I think that's rather irrelevant anyway. The Muslims I meet are tolerant, spiritual and neither warlike nor militant.

I recently listened to this interview with a prominent Muslim leader in my town - the Chairman of Birmingham (UK) Central Mosque, Dr Mohammad Naseem. I see a wise, intelligent man promoting peace and multi-faith tolerance, but meeting death threats from political forces that see more profit in dividing, agitating and radicalising. He shares my view that this opposition is not coming from his fellow worshippers.

Google Video Link

[edit on 28-9-2008 by EvilAxis]

Any religion, discipline, or political system which states its belief system, if not followed, should result in oppression or death is self defeating, wrong and that religion, discipline or political system should be banned!

Does this system of logic sound familiar?

This religion is like any other religion, or group full of people. There will be good and there will be bad. Some will follow the preachings down to the letter, some will interpret it and apply it as best as possible. Don't let the extremists taint a name or a whole religion. Thats just my 2 cents however.