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Sprinklers at WTC Sabotaged for 9/11?

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posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 10:23 AM

I have always wondered about this, why didn't the sprinklers activate that day. Some may have had damaged water flow to them but not the parts where there was no impact, like below.

Any mechanical engineers that would like tell us how they could have ALL failed without sabotage.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Blue_Jay33]

posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 10:27 AM
An exerpt from that link

"As maintenance and electrical workers talked to each other on their dedicated radio channel, one man trapped in a stairwell on the 103rd floor of the north tower called repeatedly for help. "Open the stairway door," he called. The radio picked up his labored breathing, and he reported smoke rising. "People stuck in the stairway, open up the goddamn doors." Later he burst out, "Where's the f------ sprinkler system?" [USA Today]"

posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 10:45 AM
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Maybe we need to look into how the sprinkler system gets pressurised in such a tall building. The usual arrangement is to pump water up to holding tanks at the top of the building and it appears a large aircraft smashed through the core of the building destroying that system, hence no sprinklers. All the water from the roof tanks would have run down the core if the outlets had no check valves (to shut off the flow in the event of a ruptured main). I'd expect such a system to have an assortment of over-velocity detectors arranged to trip shut-off valves and air admission (anti-vacuum) valves immediately below those to prevent the pipe being collapsed when suddenly drained.

Far more detailed information on exactly how the system worked would be nice though.

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Pilgrum]


posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 12:47 PM
FYI. Just because the sprinklers one one floor go off, does not mean that they will go off in the whole building. Frangible bulbs are used to detect temperature rise and set off sprinklers in a specific area. This limits water damage to parts of the building that are not affected by heat/fire.

posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:29 PM
This is something that Willie Rodriguez refers to in testamony to NIST. He said that there were multiple failures of the sprinkler system as well as the emergency lighting system.

I remember listening to the fluorescent lights, the emergency lights that were in the building,cracking up in line; pop, pop, pop, pop, pop all the way to the bottom because of the swiveling. And one of the things, I mean, the sound of fear of the people on the floors was a constant
reminder of what the fire department was trying to do that day, and the problems that we were experiencing. Not all the sprinkler systems worked. Not all the warble alarms on every floor worked.

He attributes this to possibly the "swiveling" of the building. Having heard reference to this, I'm reasonably certain that there were numerous small explosions going on to take out the core of the building before the collapse. This may have induced the swiveling or even have been directly responsible for the multiple failures of emergency equipment.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by ipsedixit]

posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 10:20 PM
I'll keep this simple. In really tall buildings, multiple zone systems are used. Even though the sprinkler heads have a pressure rating of 200 PSI are used, fire code only allows 70 PSI for the maximum pressure on the lines. what this means to you is that you can not have water pushed up or falling from a tank more than 170 feet of straight friction free pipe. Basically 15 floors per zone.

There would have been a holding tank towards the roof, and then more in mechanical rooms as you descend, around every 15 floors. Local, New York City, fire codes would have dictated how large this tank was and the GPM rating per square footage needed for the proper number of sprinklers.

Usually, you have around 15 minutes of water but the high pressure fire pumps kick in and pump water into the tank being drained, once a flow has been alarmed. These are high pressure rated pumps that move alot of water. There will be a minimum of 2 pumps per building with each pump able to supply all the water needed. There will be a back flow valve before these pumps. There are no devices after these pumps except automatic fill valves and holding tanks. There can be supply lines for additional fire hose connections.

The pipes that move the water from the holding tanks to the branch line on each floor are called risers. Even if you have a tank above you, it is still a riser that brings the water down to the branch line and then the sprinkler head. Risers are usually built in the building stairwells. You can find fire hose connectors on these risers for either adding water or taking water. On smaller buildings you will see these connectors on the outside of the building with brass caps covering the pipes.

The high pressure lines that supply water directly to holding tanks are usually placed in the central core of the building with branch lines going to each tank and this line will dead end at the highest tank. Automatic fill valves will dump water into the holding tanks. There can also be fire line connectors or fire hose stations that have the hose already in place and all you do is open the valve and you have water to fight a fire, on these lines.

Here's the problem with a plane hitting a building. You have less than 15 minutes of water and the high pressure line is severed. No sprinklers on a catastrophe of this level. Sprinkler systems are designed to fight small fires and keep them in check until the fire department arrives. This is what the NYFD walked into.

It was airplanes and fire, not explosives, that brought the towers down.

posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:59 AM
reply to post by ipsedixit

I remember listening to the fluorescent lights, the emergency lights that were in the building,cracking up in line; pop, pop, pop, pop, pop all the way to the bottom because of the swiveling. And one of the things, I mean, the sound of fear of the people on the floors was a constant

That sounds like a mortally wounded building losing the ability to remain standing if it was twisting and distorting sufficiently to break flourescent tubes. He also mentioned the sheetrock lining was falling from the stairwell walls because of the twisting and swaying which got progressively worse as they climbed higher to the point where the stairway was impassable.

I remember on the 21st floor, on the 13th floor, there was structural damage on the staircases. I told this personally to Gene Morragio (ph) and Ed Strauss (ph) who are dead now, building operation managers of the Port Authority. And nothing was done with the structural damages. The stairs were cracking. The sheet rock, when I went up opening the doors, was falling on top of me and on top of the firemen constantly. And the swaying of the building made it easier for that to come off.

He made no observation of explosions causing this building motion.

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