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Originally posted by pause4thought
Reply to re22666
can you please define "Satanist."
That is a very reasonable request - definitions always promote clarity in a discussion.
It appears we are dealing with someone who, for some as yet unspecified reason, became embittered against the One he had been told held his fate in His hands. (Perhaps a reasonable guess might be that a woman he loved became betrothed to another.) In order to express his newfound outright opposition to God he determined to join forces with those who worship the antithesis of God.
Judging by the words Marx used he may have made this choice in a very emotional state. He may therefore not have given careful consideration to the gravity of his decision. As is often the case he may well have entered the realm of inviting influence from dark spiritual forces without realizing they would bind and control him rather than allowing him to simply dabble to satisfy a passing urge.
There is evidence he took part in an initiation ceremony. I have no prurient interest in exactly what he got up to. The issue is that he got involved with those who seek to draw near to Satanic forces, and that this does not accord with the commonly-held belief that he was a straight-forward atheist.
As such he may possibly have remained on the periphery after a period of experimentation. On the other hand he may well have climbed a hierarchy. It is therefore not clear whether he became deeply committed or at some point drifted away from the activities hinted at. All we can see is evidence of real animosity towards God that appears to have led him to join with those who gather in Satan's name.
I will try to do some more digging. If I discover more information I will add it.
A recurrent mythic model for revolutionaries – early romantics, the young Marx, the Russians of Lenin's time – was Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods for the use of mankind. The Promethean faith of revolutionaries resembled in many respects the general modern belief that science would lead men out of darkness into light. But there was also the more pointed, millennial assumption that, on the new day that was dawning, the sun would never set (p. 6).
Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by re22666
Hello again.
It appears you missed how I went about defining 'Satanist'. Instead of trying to use an all-encompassing definition that might have given you grounds to respond with indignation (which you did anyway,) I defined what it meant within the confines of the title of this thread. I laid out as clearly as possible what it means to say Marx was a practising Satanist.
As such you have no grounds for saying my definition is all wrong.
For the sake of clarity I'll put it another way.
Thread title:
'(*unexpected person*) was a Christian'.
When asked what I mean by 'Christian' I could respond with 'he said this, did that, and chose to be baptised'. That would not, however, mean that I was defining all christians as those who said and did the same things and were necessarily baptized.
Fair enough?
(And sorry I didn't respond immediately. I had to let someone else use the computer.)
reply to post by drevill
Please don't think I'm ignoring your input. It's just that I'll have to look into the background of what you're saying before responding. There's quite a lot of new stuff there, and I'm not entirely sure what it means at this point.
Please feel free to elaborate.
Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by re22666
A Satanist would follow Satan and oppose God, just as a Christian follows Christ and opposes Satan.
I am a patient man...
I am still convinced that most people are more struck by the suggestion that Marx believed both in God and Satan, and decided to follow the latter. He is almost universally regarded as an atheist.
Or do you require that I define 'atheist'?
How about 'oppose'?
I've already defined 'Christian'.
Who do you think I am, a lexicographer?
then why would it be fair to say that a satanist is someone who worships satan? the church of satan claims no belief in any deities, good or bad.
The devil was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies
...the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world...
Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by re22666
then why would it be fair to say that a satanist is someone who worships satan? the church of satan claims no belief in any deities, good or bad.
Sorry dude, but you can't pull the wool over the eyes of a Christian that easily. I would never trust the church of Satan to tell the truth about itself. If it did it would be dishonouring the one it worships, by telling the truth.
The devil was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies
Jesus Christ in the Gospel of John 8:44
Your implication that the devil and Satan are somehow different entities is also a cheap attempt at deception.
...the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world...
Revelation 12:9
You can deny it till the cows come home if you will. The church of Satan knowingly worships Satan and opposes God, and it seems Marx was among their number.
I suppose it must be painful for Satanists to know the truth is out.
i never claimed there was a difference between satan and the devil. please reread.
call him what he may have been then, a devil worshipper... he was hardly a satanist
prove to me in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM that the church of satan recognizes and worships satan.
"Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification"
Satanism "worship of Satan" dates from 1896, with ref. to France, where it was said to be active at that time; Satanist is attested from 1559, applied by their enemies to Protestant sects.
Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by re22666
hello
Satanist
Satanism "worship of Satan" dates from 1896, with ref. to France, where it was said to be active at that time; Satanist is attested from 1559, applied by their enemies to Protestant sects.
www.etymonline.com...
obviously Satanism was around before the actual church of Satan
David
Originally posted by lucid eyes
Both communism and satanism are fruits of christianity. Without christianity there would be no anti-christianity (in the form of satanism and atheism).