Russia's new nuclear challenge to Europe

reply to post by crisko




WRONG! Nazi's were the political party, not the organziations/public servants used to bring law and order to the localities, as in my example. Given your example I guess the local police here in the U.S. should be called "Democracy" or "Republics"???

Does anyone here read books or just spout crap they know nothing of???

reply to post by crisko


Nice red herring. Where did I mention Al Queda??? You never answered the original question, just shifted the topic...

[edit on 20-8-2008 by pityocamptes]

Originally posted by SectionEight
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

Wow such denial coming from one who has
a) a nazi swastika in your avatar
b) a mentioning of a fourth reich in your sig
c) an idolizing quote fron Hitler in your sig also

Ok, deny all you want but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck......expect people to see a duck.

This is becoming vexing for the mentally challenged...

Do you even know what the sun wheel represents? Do you realize it was used by the church and humanity for thousands of years and never became an issue until last century?

Yes, we are living in the 4th reich, look around, open your eyes.

Never said I idolized hitler. The quote is a very good one, as many individuals throughout history who have been less than scrupulous are known for good, common sense quotes. This does not imply that the individual has to be revered for their actions, but their words can be analyzed for what they contain and weighed appropriately.

Hello.

This is a touchy topic, but the topic is "Russia's new nuclear challenge to Europe". Remember that?

We aren't here to discuss members political associations. Or their intelligence. Or anything else outside the topic.

Just a reminder...stay on target.

Originally posted by seagull
Hello.

This is a touchy topic, but the topic is "Russia's new nuclear challenge to Europe". Remember that?

We aren't here to discuss members political associations. Or their intelligence. Or anything else outside the topic.

Just a reminder...stay on target.

Thank you!

Last Time!!!

This discussion WILL stay on topic.

Excuse me for that, but at least I learned there is an ignore button.

On Topic, A good thing to research is how long will it take for Russia to fully arm their fleet with nukes and are their vessels in any shape to actually deploy them? Their fleet has been rusting away and neglected for some time after all.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Lets start with that American mindset is not in tune with current times. USA has gotten used to being the big kid on the block and is unwilling to adapt that mindset. Russian on another hand was in that economic mess not so long ago. They had no other choice but to accept the fact. Thats why in the 90's Russia and US were really "buddy-buddy". They had enough nukes to end all life on this planet but they didn't have the means to respond in more tactical or precise fasion.
In the past years the tables have turned. US is bogged down in the middle east and Russia is making a lot of money from that mess. (Oil Prices move mostly internationally)
In the simple temps, it is unprofitable for Russia to have peaceful, stable Middle East. That is why they are supporting Iran, and sold weapons to Iraq. They are brewing a proxy war. Superpowers don't fight directly, you want one of your minions to fight for you, simple strategy.
Now objectively speaking, Russian is try to do everything in its power to get US to go to war with Iran, they are trying to start a proxy war there. Unfortunately USA, with macho thinking is likely to fall into that trap.
This whole shield debate is superficial in nature, but it becomes an ego contest rather quick. For the fairness sake, US did get pretty upset about Russians considering to base their bombers in Cuba. Neither one of those propositions are catastrophic in nature like the media would make you think. Russian ICBM block would easily overwhelm the shield systems, and USA does have the capacity to neutralize any airborne threats from Cuba.
What really is happening, is Russia trying to manipulate the world market to its liking, like US has done in the 90's.

Exactly!! It makes me wonder if Russia is trying to play an economic game, control the pipe lines, and crush the US as the US had done to her during the 80's. Putin is not an idiot. This was not coincidence, I believe it was planned. The big question is what is Russia trying to obtain? She would not go to such lengths unless she had an ultimate goal, which I believe Putin may think this is the ultimate time frame to financially crush the US. Hmm, I wonder if this might be related to the rumor that the Chinese are going to dump the dollar after the olympics? Perhaps a means to sway public opinion on the upcoming presidential vote??

Looks like the Turks, who are our allies do not like us either, or do not want to get involved...

Turkey refuses to let US Navy vessels enter the Black Sea:

Moreover, to send the Comfort, a destroyer or any other major naval vessel, the Bush administration would need to obtain permission from Turkey under the Montreux Convention, an international treaty that regulates naval passage in the Black Sea. So far, Turkey, which controls the Bosporus and the Dardanelles that link the Mediterranean and the Black Seas, has refused, the Pentagon officials told McClatchy.

Even a NATO member doesn't like US involvement in Georgia.


www.mcclatchydc.com...

reply to post by SectionEight


You may be forgiven for thinking that Russia is a blanket socialist state with the occasional mobster and corrupt Army General, but in answer to your comment about a Nazi siding with Socialists, maybe this might help provide a link:

50,000 Russian Nazis

Are Russians destined to be the successor to Adolph Hitler's Germans? Hitler died by his own hand in April 1945, but now his spirit has come back in the form of young Russian neo-Nazis, who could number 50,000 or more, according to the Moscow Bureau of Human Rights

Oh yes, Nazism is alive and well. We better hope the Putin Crowd keeps a lid on THESE clowns, for humanity's sake

Originally posted by centurion1211


If you're an American, why would you think that the russians need your help with any of their policy moves?

And what "aggression"? It's a numbers game, man. 10 interceptors will not even make a dent in the russian missile arsenal if the russians decide to shoot them off.

I am not "helping" them with their policy moves, I am simply stating the obvious. If you flip the situation around a bit, perhaps it will make more sense. Imagine if you will, that Russia made deals with Mexico, Cuba, and Canada (imagination here) to allow Russia to put up a missile defense shield around North America.

Now lets imagine that the US says "OK fine put up your defense shield, because as you say, it is only there to protect everyone... right?"

So Russia puts in its shield and a week after its done, they begin to systematically bomb the US using ICBM's. Every time we shoot off a retaliatory strike, oh whoops forgot about that defense shield that is now causing our retaliation to be hindered.

US would not exactly be to happy, would it? Hell, even the mere mention of moving some military forces to Cuba got Washington all bent out of shape.

The point here is that we made a chess move, and we are now dealing with the consequences of that move. Russia has now also made a chess move, by going into Georgia, an ally to some NATO members, and pushing them around. They will now have to deal with consequences of that move.


All in all the chess game is far from over. These are just the pawns being pushed around at the moment. It will be quite different once the castle, rooks, bishops, and the "King and Queen" start to make their moves.

I only hope that this can be resolved as it was once before during the cold war.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by xmaddness]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by xmaddness]

reply to post by Terran Blue


Yes, there was an article about that on Reuters AlertNet.

Here's some of it:

UN rights body urges Russia fight racism, neo-Nazis

GENEVA, Aug 18 (Reuters) - A key United Nations rights body voiced alarm on Monday at mounting racial violence in Russia and called on Moscow to take firm action against ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi groups and hate speech in the media.

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination also urged the Russian government to hold an investigation into police repression of Georgians in Russia in 2006.

The Committee said it was "gravely concerned about the alarming increase in the incidence and severity of racially motivated violence, especially by young people belonging to extremist groups".

(AlertNet)

you know what im tired of all this b.s. if america wants war with russia or vice versa the lets get on with it.lets see who comes out victorious.who do you guys think would win?oh!and how do you star and flag posts or threads,and whats it for.

Originally posted by flaco
you know what im tired of all this b.s. if america wants war with russia or vice versa the lets get on with it.lets see who comes out victorious.who do you guys think would win?oh!and how do you star and flag posts or threads,and whats it for.

No one wins. The next big fight would be nuclear, and all would lose.

You know what I find fascinating? Is that this planet is all we have, and is all we will ever have. Whether we come from evolution or creation we all have a common singularity in common. Yet, we continually fight and bicker over stupid crap, and kill each other in very horrific manners. The madness makes no sense.

reply to post by xmaddness


Since when did Georgia become a member of NATO? News to me.

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by xmaddness

 

Since when did Georgia become a member of NATO? News to me.

Georgia will probably never become a NATO member now that the (blank)has hit the fan,Russia isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by all2human]

Originally posted by SectionEight
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

Wow such denial coming from one who has
a) a nazi swastika in your avatar
b) a mentioning of a fourth reich in your sig
c) an idolizing quote fron Hitler in your sig also

It's historical, If you are a colector you would find them intresting too.
The crusades tortured alot of people, is the cross wrong?
This are just simbols, the guy stated he is not a natzi.

Ok, deny all you want but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck......expect people to see a duck.

What about actors then, if I exposed a pice of my painting collection on the wall, and let's say I draw a roman legion would you call me a criminal?
You know the Roman empire tortured and killed alot of people, Jesus included.

Now on topic , I wish Russia would kick some ass also.Not for real, just to embarase the white house, the neocons.I have nothing against America, America is cool, rock'n roll , great movies, love hollywood, love KFC.and yes...Bush is an arogant scum bag along with his administration of corupted crooks.


[edit on 20-8-2008 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by SectionEight
Holysheepdip, a nazi. So why would a nazi side with a socialist state? The nazi's were bitter enemies of socialism. Or is it just the inherent fun in seeing mayhem and destruction for you?

Hitler considered himself a "socialist".

I do not know how new you are here, but it is quite common to hear the same old song and dance "the sky is falling". I would advise your sir, to get used to it.

The same time Russia, or the United States became unable to swamp ten theoretical or planned interceptors, apparently.

I'd like to point out that the three other officially recognized nuclear powers, China, the U.K. and France could also swamp these interceptors, much less Superpowers with tens of thousands of warheads.