Texas school district OKs pistols for staff

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Having loaded weapons around children is always a good idea. I for one salute Texas for continuing to lead the way in enlightened and intelligent decisions that are an example for the rest of the country. Hopefully, next kids will be locked in cages until they're 18 since obviously they're so violent that adults need to pack guns around them.

Wasn't school supposed to be about education? Oh yeah... this is America.

Oh no it isnt for the kids...its for the evil joo joo men that lurk behind every single corner in America just wiating to mass murder,you know the *norm*...or maybe thats called paranoia?

This isn't a good idea. If they are going to give guns to teachers they should have a psych evalution and a back ground check. A lot of times schools hire substitute teachers on the fly and thats scary. Who are these teachers shooting anyway? Kids? People complain about guns on TV and in video games but its okay to have guns in school?

Wow. People cease to amaze me...

I'm sure we can all afford to send our kids to private school where armed teachers are responsible. I myself think it would be better to act civilized, and reasonable than to resort to such things as violence. But if you truly insist, surely I must exercise some restraint in favor of educating you.

The fact is, a place of learning is no place for guns. If you have a problem handling children I hope you know about it. Otherwise your not a very wise teacher. I was hoping you might be capable of educating your children without some sort of reinforcement. Otherwise would be, foolish. If you can't teach your children without using guns in the standard school system, then I don't think you can. Surely we can teach children without killing anyone, can't we?

I don't trust school systems. I have found public teaching to be mediocre to say the least. I taught myself with the aid of teachers, in my home. And the school system paid for it (I had to find a way to make them), when they weren't volunteering to do it in their spare time. The teachers who taught me liked coming to my home. But they understood that the rest of the system was flawed to say the least, and were very willing. I didn't let them down either. But a lot of money that was spent to put unwilling students in school was (when a large percentage of students dropped out). What a waste, wish there was hope for them (it is up to us to encourage our students to learn).

You want to keep crazy people from coming into schools and shooting children don't let them in. If you want to check the kids for weapons, fine. I can't object, but don't be subjective to my child. They can't learn that way. Fear is not a teaching method.

We need to teach our children that they have the same freedom as everyone else. There are things that we do to protect our children but let's be reasonable. Yes we need to control our children, it is necessary for their survival. But we need to be reasonable and teach our children to use rationality. You need patience, not a gun.

Answers are a lot easier than you think if your are actually thinking about answers instead of worrying about someone infringing on your rights. You want to give teachers guns, I'm not sending my kid to school. Use guns when you need them, don't carry them around waiting for the chance to use it. That is to say the least, ignorant. There are a number of ways to die. Guns aren't going to help you in all of those situations (if you have any control over it to begin with).

By the way, they used box cutters to take over the planes during 911...
I'm sure it was a typical hostage type situation. I'm sure they can find a better way of detecting weapons or restraining passengers for safety reasons before they resort to altering guns so that they penetrate people (leading to death) as opposed to penetrating the cabin of an aircraft.

I think it's funny that people who are advocates for promoting the use of firearms aren't apposed to killing people. Kind of tells you where they are going with this one.

By the way, I support the free use of firearms.
Drink responsibly, Texas...

Originally posted by NinguLiliumA lot of times schools hire substitute teachers on the fly and thats scary. Who are these teachers shooting anyway? Kids?

What schools hire substitutes on the fly? All the schools I know have already screened substitutes on hand should they need them.

Even if they hired subs on the fly, the subs have had to go through a process to carry the guns on the school campus. That has already been stated in the article. A teacher in that district can't just carry a gun at whim, they have to go through a process to be able to do so.

Who are they shooting at? Noone hopefully! But should anyone walk into the school and start a killing spree, then that would be the one that they would use the gun on.... duh!

That's so messed up...armed teachers?
Seriously, the symptoms of the American experiment, as executed by the right wing and John D Rockefeller (Nat. Ed. Board), are becoming deeply troubling. I say it's time for another Bastille.

Wow, there are so many good points made by both sides of this issue. I'm really not sure where I stand on this. While I want my child to be safe at school, I'm not sure that having an armed staff at school will present safety or more danger. No matter what training the staff goes through, their instincts will take over in a heated situation. I am just concerned about a few things.

--Phsyco's that shouldn't even be teaching to begin with. Perhaps there should be psychological evaluations for teachers, whether they carry guns or not.

--What if a couple of kids get into a (no- weapons involved) fight? Will a member of the staff decide that it's necessary to pull a gun?

--Moment of truth...Something terrible happens, and a teacher is forced to draw his or her weapon. Will he or she be able to follow through. Some teachers love their students (not in a sick way), and think of them as their children. I'm sure that some of them would have a terribly hard time with this. Even a brief hesitation would allow the student to overpower the teacher, and end up with the gun. You might think well he already had a gun to begin with. Well even if he did, he's now got more ammo. And what if he only had a knife to begin with ?

--Another concern--Suicide by teacher.

On the other hand, If some nutjob decides to go on a killing spree, someone could stop them.

Like I said, I'm not yet sure where I stand on this. I guess we'll see how Texas does.

Originally posted by NinguLilium
This isn't a good idea. If they are going to give guns to teachers they should have a psych evalution and a back ground check. A lot of times schools hire substitute teachers on the fly and thats scary. Who are these teachers shooting anyway? Kids? People complain about guns on TV and in video games but its okay to have guns in school?

Wow. People cease to amaze me...

Readthe many many times that this issue has been addressed in this topic. According to Texas law, they DO have to go through screening to get a gun and conceal and carry. Guess what? every state to get a handgun has a waiting period where they do a background check, and you have to get evaluated to carry concealed. They aren't just gona hand these out at the next teacher's union meeting or anyhting

Use tasers, use police ones if you have to, they have a good distance and the end can either come off to shoot another person or the end can be reused.

Thats the answer no guns are needed, no guns should ever be needed. If the law is ever passed and is allowed it just means more loss of life at school!! If someone does infact decide to act out, the loss of life could be a student, thats potentially someone the age of 18 or under. So I guess shooting minors at school is allowed because they have a gun to right?

The more and more i look at the world the more and more i see its corrupted, stupid, and needs more critical thinking.

USE A TASER FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY! Preserve life not destroy it, especially when theres enough death that happens in the world everyday.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by justamomma

 

You are obviously a Republican. I deduced this not because of your adamant support of the 2nd amendment, I too support the right to bear arms and am a democrat. It is the last paragraph in your post that is so telling. It is people like you who would also say, "if you don't like the way this country is being run, then leave." What you don't realize is how completely un-American statements like that are. America was founded by people who did not like the way their communities were being run. But instead of leaving, they stood up for what they believed in, earned support for their beliefs, and brought about change. Instead of thinking that people who don't like the policies at their school should just leave, you should advocate that those people hold PTA meetings to express their warranted concerns and try to change the policy. That is what being a real American is all about.

I'm a Libertarian, and I'm for arming the good kids along with the teachers. Maybe that way, perhaps, Columbine would never have happened. If Eric and Dylan had suddenly been confronted by several gun wielding teachers and/or students, maybe only two (Eric and Dylan) would have been shot and/or killed. Sad as it is.

In my high school days (1980) we boys were permitted to carry our pocket knives, either in a belt case or in-pocket. But we were told, "one false move and you're in big trouble". We didn't need to take it any further than that. I NEVER saw nor encountered a violent situation involving knives or guns. If we had a problem, we settled it with fists, out back somewhere, or usually off-campus.

We have a school environment today that no one wants to be in, where hostility abounds, and we can either turn schools into day-jails, or get rid of schools altogether. They have become a joke and a failure. THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED THE KIDS !!! There are private, charter, and home school options. Use them if you don't like public schools.

Let's keep an eye on this thing and see how it goes.

Originally posted by Quickfix
Use tasers, use police ones if you have to, they have a good distance and the end can either come off to shoot another person or the end can be reused.

Thats the answer no guns are needed, no guns should ever be needed. If the law is ever passed and is allowed it just means more loss of life at school!! If someone does infact decide to act out, the loss of life could be a student, thats potentially someone the age of 18 or under. So I guess shooting minors at school is allowed because they have a gun to right?

The more and more i look at the world the more and more i see its corrupted, stupid, and needs more critical thinking.

USE A TASER FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY! Preserve life not destroy it, especially when theres enough death that happens in the world everyday.

Hey...I don't disagree here. Perhaps a good 1 megavolt jolt would reset a kid's brain to the point where they're compliant little sheople once again. Despite my other post, I'd only use deadly force only when I have no other choice, and it's a choice I'd hate to make. Fortunately for me, and others of my generation, we know those things can kill, and there ain't no coming back.

Post real bona-fide COPS in every school, and equip them with Streetwise stun batons (those stun guns that are about 14 inches long with intimidating-looking electrodes at the business end). (Tasers too !) Crack off some sparks into the air once in a while, just for show.

People will start THINKING. And they might never have to get used, except for the occasional hardcore miscreant who just can't stop misbehaving, probably due to lack of meds.

As much as it pains me to say it, we're having to turn schools into day-jails, because of the misbehaviour of a few. Everyone needs to watch the John Stossel 20/20 piece "Stupid In America"...it's all about dumbing-down.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Dale Gribble]

Originally posted by Dale Gribble

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by justamomma

 

You are obviously a Republican. I deduced this not because of your adamant support of the 2nd amendment, I too support the right to bear arms and am a democrat. It is the last paragraph in your post that is so telling. It is people like you who would also say, "if you don't like the way this country is being run, then leave." What you don't realize is how completely un-American statements like that are. America was founded by people who did not like the way their communities were being run. But instead of leaving, they stood up for what they believed in, earned support for their beliefs, and brought about change. Instead of thinking that people who don't like the policies at their school should just leave, you should advocate that those people hold PTA meetings to express their warranted concerns and try to change the policy. That is what being a real American is all about.

Hmmm..... had missed this gem of a reply.

First off, I am not a republican or democrat. I adhere to the original constitution on all issues not BECAUSE it is what this country was founded on, but because it makes sense and I concur whole heartedly with the foundation it laid out for this country.

Second off, my last statement was "I suppose if it is a concern for the parents of the kiddos, they can always pull them out and homeschool them or send them to private school." That does not mean that across the board I would say "if you don't like the way this country is being run, then leave."

The only time that I would say "if you don't like the way this country is being run, then leave" is when ppl are spewing out their desires for this country to be either a socialist or fascist state. I don't like the way the country is being run and I wouldn't tell myself to leave.

This country has gone so far from being a constitutional republic with free market capitalism and I know the answer to getting it back to its purpose is not to leave.. the founding fathers laid out the answer very clearly.

But to those who want to push and/or settle for ppl like Obama and McCain to give us the answers in the form of socialism or fascism, TO THOSE ppl I would say "I'll buy you a one way ticket to the socialist or fascist country of your choice" just to rid america of one less idiot.

reply to post by justamomma


You and I were both responding to that one at the same time. We'd both probably agree that the solution lies in fixing the schools. Something that might be noteworthy, is that we all should look at third party candidates for a change, instead of wasting votes on the status quo.

reply to post by Dale Gribble


Yeah, i just hope tasers catch on rather then guns. People can be so stupid, i guess its just the new natural selection.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Quickfix]

It's terrible how simple this problem is. Guns are simply not needed. Check them in, check them out. It can be done in the time it takes to get them to school, and get them to class. It can be done by the office staff and the local truancy officer that's there anyway. No additional funds or staff. Put the building on lock down, and check them in. Use tasers if you like, as long as the objective is the preservation of human life.

In a place of learning, a weapon that only causes destruction will do just that. Do not provoke the minds of young children who are still learning how to make decisions. And yeah, when I was in school we still had that mentality about the pocket knife. To bad we don't all have that kind of respect and discipline.

The world has changed, our kids are becoming desensitized by modern society (harder to instill values). In the old days problems were simple because life was a lot more straight forward and less complicated. Things get complicated in a day in age where there are more kids and more problems arising. Some of them are hard to fit into the equation.

The judgment of teachers and staff are just as questionable as that of any child student if you ask me (mostly because of the aspect of motive). What if the teacher shoots the student and claims that he thought he had a gun? It doesn't matter what you do when a gun is in your hand it changes the perspective completely. Kids will feel as if they can't reason (and in some ways wont be able to). This completely defeats the purpose of learning.

Since Columbine changes have already been made in schools. From dress codes to metal detectors. I don't even know why they thought this was necessary. What was the initial motive for this action? It's one thing to have a gun. It's one thing to teach children. But to both at the same time, I think it goes beyond a psych evaluation and a gun safety course. I don't care how long it takes. Bottom line, there are other ways.

This is bad. I bet a student will be shot soon after school lets in either that or a student will get a hold of the gun, and then # will be going down! I mean come on! What the froodlenutzkie was the district thinking!

[edit on 8/18/2008 by herbiegrunt]

People who are against armed law biding citizens being armed always bring up the BS argument that any little disagreement will lead to armed conflict. In CC states this little gem of misinformation has been proven totally false. I guess since they wouldnt trust themselves to take the grown up responsiblity of being armed than according to their logic nobody else should be armed. Well guess what sport the shooters dont think the way you do.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I, for one, am not against law abiding citizens being armed. I have a CC permit, and I agree with your point. Most people who legally carry are not just waiting for the opportunity to shoot someone. In fact, the opposite is true. I hope I never have to draw a firearm outside of a shooting range.

My concerns over an armed staff in schools is just the parent in me weighing the pros and cons. Many parents tend to think of every possible outcome, and we tend to really focus on the bad that could possibly happen. I have yet to decide where I stand on this issue, although I do know that something needs to be done.

My son read the newspaper article and I asked him how he felt about it. (He is in 7th grade) He's all for it. He said that he would feel safer going to school knowing that his teacher would be able to protect him if needed. He told me that it would be too easy for a kid to get a gun in school. He then said that if that kid takes his gun out and starts shooting people, that there is nothing anyone could do. I then expressed my concerns to him, regarding the competence of the teachers. He told me that he trusts his teachers, and said that I wasn't going to change his mind.

I think we need some views from students. I would really like to know how you feel about this.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by TeeJay]

I think everyone is a student even if your out of school. If tasers are good enough to use out of school on adults there good enough to use in schools on minors.

this is the tragedy waiting to happen...
Hopefully all of the naysayers are wrong and this indeed saves lives, hopefully no more kids would die because of armed murders at school...
This problem is not solved by arming the teachers, this problem has its roots deep at the core of society as a whole...

A gun wont solve much when the problem lies in the thought structures...

Originally posted by TeeJayMy concerns over an armed staff in schools is just the parent in me weighing the pros and cons.

You are very wise to do so. Though I don't oppose it in the least, as a parent if this were to occur in the school district my children were in, I most definately would weigh the pros and cons on the individual circumstances. If the cons outweighed the pros, I would simply take my child out and either find a school that I felt more comfortable with or I would homeschool them myself.

This method of weighing should ALWAYS be done with every decision you make for your children.

But across the board, I don't think allowing people to arm themselves is wrong and/or would result in disaster. Not allowing for it has led to disaster in MANY cases. I just believe in giving everyone the advantage to protect themselves in the same manner that could be used to take their life.

Again, you seem to be a wise parent. kudos to you!