Evolution, Power,and Godliness.

Evolution dictates that the most agressive beings always come to dominate the rest via thier brutality and lack of consideration for others,in other words-breaking as many eggs as long as your get your omelet in the end.

after some considerable thought i have come to conclusion that the technological advancement ascosiated with "higher beings" does not equate to the most advanced amougnst them being the most kindest,trustfull and well intended.
To me the same rules that apply to biological evolution apply to the evolution of our beloved higher beings,those with the most brutal nature and technology that is capable of dominating others would come to hold the most power.

in 10 000 years time the same logical will apply as it inevitable there will always be those who have the mistaken belief that they have the right to control all others and that others are irrelevant to them.the lower down the pecking order your are the less they would care about you in any way whatsoever.


when we get into timespans exceeding millions and billions of years the powers ascosciated with techological advancement would allow beings to hold the powers of pseudo gods.and since it is the inevitable that the most advanced beings will be the most selfish as such behaviour leads to the quickest pace of advancement,it is likely any pseudo gods would be interely self interested and unconcerned with the suffering of beings such as ourselves.

i am a firm believer that pseudo gods are a certain consequence of tecnological advancement and that is where we stumble upon the history of earth.look at the state of it,look at all the immeserable suffering that occurs and has occured here,if one were to truely experience the suffering of others through thier eyes any human would weep and dedicate thier lives to preventing every aspect of it.i certainly do.
i am certain pseudo gods would have the ablity to reach every inhabited planet in the universe in a short matter of time.i am certain they would be aware of humanities and animals sufferings and have the full capabilites to end it now,yet they obviously are unconcerned with our suffering as they do not deem us as important enough to bother with.

do not expect divine intervention,we are nothing but microbes,genes to them.i am sure they would help one of thier own in trouble,why are we all still in such trouble?.i would without a doubt help on of them.

it is possible that the ones capable of intervention do not believe in interfering with natural prosecess as such intervention may have negative results,but i believe they would have the capacity make sure they wouldnt.

we may also be alone,but to me that is higly improbible.

conventionaly religious folks im sure have the same thoughts,why has god forsaken us?,i am at the same crossroads and just believe our suffering is unimportant to those who have the ability to create or control universes of thier own,observe every fragment of it.

so we are left with faith that the gods are not the most brutal who stole all the power for themselves and thus are unintested in the problems of anyone else but that they dont intervene due to correct logic beyond mere mortals comprehension.

or

we sort it out oursleves,but here on earth we face just that problem,our human gods dont care for us either and they are the cause of much of our suffering, so really its up the human gods of earth to care enough about us to want to help.

or as most do,you just look out for yourself as it pretty much seems all that hold the power in all scales of advancement inevitibly do.

perhaps there is indeed a judgement day when they grant salvation to us,i will without a doubt push to the front of any stairway/que or other such pecking order they deem fit to demand an explanation with the full expectation of a dismissal under the logic,"i know better than you cos i am several billion years old,if not older this universe and thus without me you wouldnt exist,count your blessings".sounds just like my father.

maybe just maybe they give us complete free will and allow our mistakes to occur because they truely do judge,reward and punish each of us on individual merit given purely natural behaviour,like an anthropologist secretly watching a tribe of apes not wanting to affect thier natural behaviour with the judgement that the most intelligent and civilised amoungst them will be given a plush little poolhouse in michael jacksons nerverland ranch free to ride the swings,hellter skelters and romp amounst the rich and famous.

love....
Son.

[edit on 29-7-2008 by welivefortheson]

Dunno about the rest, but your initial statement about evolution is wrong, it's not about being aggressive. Sure, aggressiveness can help a creature survive, but at the the same time it can be a hindrance. Some critters are so aggressive that they don't pair up except to mate, and those types are generally the kind that end up endangered or are generally sensitive, in a ecological standpoint.
Herd animals, or creatures that work together in some way, tend to be the ones that do better over all, or are more resilient to mass changes.

Generally speaking, for humans, the best way for survival has been groups. Taking care of each other and working to help out each other generally works out better in the long term than "Every man for himself." philosophies.
It's part of who we are, and has been noted through archaeological evidence.

Many animals work in packs, herds, or in pairs. Unless they are in a extreme environment, hunters, or are preyed upon fairly readily, pretty often you'll find animals and people taking care of each other.
Now this doesn't always happen, but it's noted, and it's a pretty successful way to survive as a species.

Now on the same line, aggressiveness as a a hunter or prey animal has it's place as well, you need to eat, and you need to defend yourself. It's not some kinda cartoon.

It's such a greta thread! I wonder why it had only one answer. However, there's a question I would like to ask you: how do you believe these Gods are? Another thing: could it be they don't interfere with our culture because they respect Universal Law and don't want to interfere with a developing race?

reply to post by welivefortheson


Couple things to start...

1) Nice Avatar
2) It might be easier to follow your post if you capitalize at the beginning of a sentence.

Evolution dictates that the most agressive beings always come to dominate the rest via thier brutality and lack of consideration for others,in other words-breaking as many eggs as long as your get your omelet in the end.

I'm not sure I like the word 'aggresive.' I believe aggresiveness can be an evolutionary advantage. However, equating our ascent in the animal kingdom to pure aggression is an over-simplification.

in 10 000 years time the same logical will apply as it inevitable there will always be those who have the mistaken belief that they have the right to control all others and that others are irrelevant to them.the lower down the pecking order your are the less they would care about you in any way whatsoever.

Viewing other living beings as irrelevant is different than controlling them. You might view ants as irrelevant but do you honestly go out of your way to "dominate" or "control" them?

it is possible that the ones capable of intervention do not believe in interfering with natural prosecess as such intervention may have negative results,but i believe they would have the capacity make sure they wouldnt.

Why do you feel we need intervention? Because of poverty? War? Greed? Is humanity so out of control that we need (outside) help in your estimation?

perhaps there is indeed a judgement day when they grant salvation to us

Could the increase in alien abduction reports be a sign of a coming merger between aliens and ourselves? A judgement day or rapture could be just around the corner......

I wonder why nobody's posting in this thread, alotugh it's interesting.

This may be a little off topic, but I've spent today lots of time writting meaningless code, and a little brain activity could do me good

When it comes to evolution - it's the survival of the fittest, not the most aggresive ones. For humans (for most of the time) it's been the group wellness, helping yourself through helping others. And since our "group" is quite big now, this "helping others" has been put by most of us to rest.

As to why has god forsaken us remains open to debate. Has he really done this? Well, yes - he doesn't seem to help any particular group now, but did he ever do this anyway? And if yes - would you like your life to be rearranged by god? I know some of people would like to have god rearrange some others poeple's lifes.

That's why I don't believe in a judgment day. Now - don't get me wrong. We might get what's coming to us: war, suffering and all other fun stuff, a direct effect of some hundred of thousand years of thinking about "me". When this happens, and the heaven will fall on us, some of use will still be thinking about themselfs as opposed to those, who will try to help others.

Salvation? Like being freed of other beings trying to get hold of us, tormenting us, imprisoning, sending to gas chambers, raping, killing? I don't think so. In the end it's the wishful thinking about myself. The common memory of our spiecies is a nasty one. Rapture, salvation is a natural response to the atrocities that have been commited. And we know they can happen again. For me the only rapture would be to spread love and understanding.

And the gods judging us are prone to the same mistakes as every creation. You surely see more and less egoistic people. If gods are advanced beings from the other side of the galaxy (or whatever dimension) they still confrom to the same set of rules. They may want to help themselves or try at least thing about others.

Would you judge anyone if you were a billion years old and had a task appointed to you to perform a judgement day on an ant planet? I know some poeple that would have a lot of fun out of it

How about a thought: the universe is a self-joudging mechanism. What you give is what you get. You can beat your dog but the more do it the more of your empathy you loose and the less you are capable of experiencing in life.

Judgment is placed at a human existance's core. But I somehow don't see the creator judging someone. Let's suppose it does happen and all the "good guys" get to heaven as opposed to those who go to hell. Wouldn't the good guys pitty those below them? For how long could you live that ways knowing someone you like is down there, suffereing? What kind of heaven is this anyway?

Originally posted by krzyspmac
This may be a little off topic, but I've spent today lots of time writting meaningless code, and a little brain activity could do me good

When it comes to evolution - it's the survival of the fittest, not the most aggresive ones.

Stop you there. It is the most adaptable in the face of a changing (over many generations) environment. When the dinosaurs all dies 63 million years ago, only the small creatures survived in the main, the big massive ones could not get the food or hide in holes to keep warm. It's an interactive things and quite chaotic in how it works.

Not commenting on your religious stuff, I'm agnostic and it's the area of personal opinion and I'm not even sure I'm right........it's got to be yes or no and I'm saying both......

That is what I was trying to say. It is the species most fit for the upcoming changes and most elastic that survives. This applies to most physical and mental states of being.

Michio Kaku uses a similar arguement on why we should "not" be contacting ET's because they are most likely predators. However, that is only the human view of how we feel an alien race would be superior to us. It is interesting, but not a very good arguement since it is local and in probably provincial at it's conception.

I have link to a great article on intelligence I read today would fit this thread perfectly.
www.dailygalaxy.com...
It's about our classifications of intelligence and life on the plane, specifically tackling the subject of Dolphins as people. Just 40 years ago parts of my family were considered 'game animals.' I think if we were more open to the things we don't know, we might be less inhibited by the strict guidelines that we place on ourselves as humans and more open to exploration of our rigid definitions of intelligence and power.

Could it be possible that our view of superiority is really sophmoric?

[edit on 14-11-2008 by bloodline]

''That is what I was trying to say. It is the species most fit for the upcoming changes and most elastic that survives. This applies to most physical and mental states of being.''


agreed!

And.....why do people assume that this new' spiritual age' thing, this new enlightenment thing is anything other than just another manipulation scheme...another part of the same 'cycle' thats being engineered on all levels for whatever purpose.
people falling into the same trap thinking its something new...yet again!

I agree with the herd/group thing too.....thats how animals function...serving the 'higher purpose' of the commmunity ultimately mainly because it makes sense for them to do this obviously.

Cows...cats.....dogs.....ants....sheep.....humans......bird....fish....aliens........
all just different species, onlyus thats got our knickers in a twist with this supremecy thing over all other 'species' hehehe!
Aliens are 'unknown'....and what creates a greater fear than that of the 'unknown' hehehehe,cos the possibilities are endless!!!
And if these new alien species have technology we dont know about and seem organised as we are and able to manipulate thier environment to suit themselves the of course the fears gonna be even greater still hehehe!
never mind the fact that this goes on all the time at different levels by our own 'species' anyway hehehhe!

The gods/aliens etc who are actually evolved humans from ages in the future is something I've thought for a while.
Not saying I'm with it but it amazes me that it gets so overlooked hehehe!

Yes, just to echo other posters: the initial premise is wrong. Evolution is not simply about the survival of the individual, it's about genes being passed on. To pass on your genes, you need to survive long enough to breed, but being aggressive isn't necessarily the way to achieve that. Living peacefully in groups is another way. Even sacrificing yourself for the 'herd' can make sense on a genetic level.

These days, we've almost transcended evolution. Even the weakest members of society get to pass on their genes. We don't cull weak people; we protect them. We also extend aspects of our morality and protection to animals who aren't even in a position to reciprocate, understand or benefit us in any way. Despite the constant stream of misanthropy you read these days, human beings are actually pretty great.

Any species of what we would consider intelligent evolving in this plane of existence.... that is to say OUR dimension... that evolves on their own to a state advanced enough where intergalactic travel is possible, would only be able to evolve to that state if the species comes together as a PLANET.... that is to say, not only with their own kind, but with all the other living organism on their world... before they could ever evolve the technology that would be needed to make this travel possible. I believe that any truly alien species that has not been tampered with by certain "lower astral" extradimensional entities would be benevolent, because their evolution would have taught them their true nature of being and the universe they live in, and that even an ant on an ant hill must be respected as a sentient being such as themselves.

If they don't realize this, they will destroy themselves before ever getting out of their own solar system. Just take a look at humanity right now.... the state of the world. Is it natural for a species to commit ecological suicide and destroy the very home in which it lives? We're not the only intelligent species on this planet. Dolphins are very smart. So I don't agree with the logic that we're such buttholes to each other because we're more complicated than other species. I think we've been corrupted, and unfortunately, we are not even really being used as puppets. We're being sucked dry like those mutilated cows in the feilds, and once this world is used up, the forces at work here will just move onto another unsuspecting place.

You cannot be out of harmony with your planet, with your species, with your fellow planetlings, with your universe.... and expect that the natural universal law and order is going to let you destroy the rest of the universe with your parasite culture.

Now..... it may be possible that an already advanced race became corrupted by parasitic forces which I believe are from outside of this plane of existence, and that there are corrupted races visiting our planet... but I don't believe that the majority of the universe has been corrupted yet.

It is very easy to spot a corrupted individual whether they be human or non-human. If they do not seem to understand, or at least do not say, the concept of all being one and every being having the power of infinity within them... and instead talk about worshiping this or that they are here to save us or that we must do this or that, or anything fearful or condescending.... keep your distance.

It's really not that we aren't advanced enough to understand an alien's logic.
Truth is... we really don't know for sure how old our species is, or where our origins really lie. We could've been around somewhere billions of years ago. You wanna know why I believe this? Because once you understand what this particular reality actually is, there's not much more to figure out other than more novelty. There is a point in which knowledge and evolution ceases to mean much in the face of one truth... and I think that's where people get confused. People think that we're just all individual specks, and the larger or more clever specks come to dominate because they are larger and they can see and be aware of more.... and that we as a species are of a limited consciousness with primitive higher intelligence. To be frank, that's a load of bull#. We are all infinite, and our minds are as big as universes and as small as atoms all at the same time, and that means we have all available knowledge within us. We are intimitely connected with every little speck and every universe, dimension, star, species, spirit.... and each piece of consciousness is a center.... and that nothing no matter how seemingly large or small is without divine importance.


So... no. We should not fear alien species, but we should know better than to put FAITH in anything outside of our own selves claiming authority.

I am against all authority.... human or otherwise.

good stuff dunwichwitch !!!!
especially this bit:
we should know better than to put FAITH in anything outside of our own selves claiming authority.

I am against all authority.... human or otherwise.''

That I totally agree with absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!