Schizophrenia and the Needy EGO

Sometimes it is necessary to take a few steps back and consider if your approach to a problem is preventing you from finding the answer. If you have decided that your problem can be solved by one and only one approach, then you may have effectively locked yourself info a foregone conclusion determined by your methodology. Many of the greatest breakthroughs in science have come when pioneers have stepped back and adopted an entirely new approach. But they have not only changed their way of approaching their science, they have in fact conceived of that science in an entirely new way. I believe that modern medicine is ready to change its approach to defining and, therefore, treating schizophrenia. A more mature and compassionate form of medicine is one that is brave enough to look beyond mere symptoms and the interests of pharmaceutical companies, to the underlying causes, no matter how unlikely they may seem.

The physiological aspects of schizophrenia are real, of course, because they can be observed. Yet I believe it is possible, and more useful, to move away from biological markers (which are all over the map in this case), and look more closely at the “currents” or base-states of the schizophrenic’s mind. The schizophrenic mind is like a high-powered jet plane beyond the control of the pilot. Where most people can propel their conscious mind in the direction they choose with more or less success, shutting out disruptive thoughts, flights on fancy, self-talk, etc, the schizophrenic mind does not seem to have that same control. More challenging still, the schizophrenic also has a tendency to make connections where others do not see them. Two disparate and apparently wholly unrelated events can be strung together automatically—through highly creative speculation—by the schizophrenic mind, so that a cause-and-effect relationship is set up between them that would baffle most people.

These are, in my opinion, the two essential mind-states of the schizophrenic (they categorize the tendencies of the brain machinery, so to speak): the schizophrenic’s mind ranges wide and finds causality where others would not assume it to be. As a result of these base-states, the schizophrenic often experiences a profound separation or loss of connection with reality, as it is commonly defined. As they travel further, throwing up more delusional scaffolding around themselves, they effectively shift away from what is commonly understood as reality.

But would these tendencies, on their own, be enough to cause the symptoms that we can observe in schizophrenics? Let’s look at the common delusions experienced by schizophrenics:

Paranoid delusions, or delusions of persecution: believing that people are "out to get" you, or the thought that people are doing things when there is no external evidence that such things are taking place.

Delusions of reference: when things in the environment seem to be directly related to you even though they are not. For example, it may seem as if people are talking about you or special personal messages are being communicated to you through the TV, radio, or other media.

Somatic Delusions: false beliefs about your body - for example that a terrible physical illness exists or that something foreign is inside or passing through your body.

Delusions of grandeur: when you believe that you are very special or have special powers or abilities. An example of a grandiose delusion is thinking you are a famous rock star.

I think it is possible to say that such delusions are helped along by the base-states already discussed, but I would argue that something more is required. Notice that all of the delusions reference back to the self. It is the schizophrenic’s body that has been infected; it is the schizophrenic who is special, and receiving special messages through the television; it is the schizophrenic that people are conspiring against. It seems clear that the schizophrenic’s ego is the beginning and the end-point of all these delusions. If someone were effectively stripped of their ego, and truly believed that all of humanity were one, equal, unified--that they were no more special than any other being--such delusions would not manifest in the same way. As such the schizophrenic’s mind is one where certain tendencies exist which are biological and beyond their control, but where the added aspect of ego-fixation drives the mind into a psychosis of fear and paranoia.

The human ego is essentially a creature of fear and paranoia, and it is most dangerous when it feels inadequate. This may be why there is a clear correlation between early traumatic experiences, and incidents of schizophrenia. I would argue that children may be born with minds that already contain the basic schizophrenic mind-states, but not always with a fragile and needy ego. That is often created as a result of some difficult early experiences. The needy egos that are created as a result of these experiences are particularly damaging to them because of certain remarkable qualities of their mind.

My belief, then, is that schizophrenic tendencies, do not necessarily a schizophrenic make. I would even argue that with enough love and support (and by teaching them about the ego from an early age), someone who is in danger of becoming schizophrenic can instead go on to become a fairly highly functioning artist or scientist. The wild imagination and ability to draw connections, which characterize the schizophrenic mind, can be partly controlled and directed with a positive self-image and a sense of well being and love for the world. The wild thoughts will still come, but the negative ego-centered thought patterns will not prevail. I believe then that treatment must start in the home, in the cradle. Parents who recognize the schizophrenic base-state patterns in their child’s thinking must be especially careful with that child, and work hard to allow them to build up a positive self image. They will be fighting the societal influences, but they must fight. Love saves.





[edit on 3-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

That was beautifully stated. I see what you are saying. I think that is one of the most misrepresented illnesses out there. It seems to have a stigma to the name and is overly used to write people off.

These people need love, compassion and sometimes a little meds to help them as a tool to realize they are good people and to show them the right path to help themselves. Not to lock them up and keep them fed with drippy-drooly meds for their whole lives.

Even raising healthy minded children is a challenge, so I see that a lot of time/care would go into nurturing a child with schizophrenic tendencies would be a lifetime of work, but would prevail at some point.

I have often thought that people diagnosed are in their right minds, and we, the general population are the crazy ones.

A_L

P.S. A star for you!!!

reply to post by another_lurker


Thanks. Schizophrenics to me are tragic. Society has lost far too many brilliant minds to the "illness," which is in fact not so much an illness as a failure of society. I don't want to place blame, but this is an affection and love deficient society, and schizophrenics can't deal with that in the same way most of us can--by shutting down the mind and pretending everything is dandy.

So pretty much all of us are in some way schizo?

Sorry for the one liner but I just have this question...

reply to post by jamiros


Hi...No, but I believe there are many who have the schizophrenic base-states I described, but who have diminished egos and are therefore fairly functional and highly gifted members of society. There is a big difference between a diminished ego--which is a state in which the self is not the sole focus of all one's thoughts--and a needy ego.




[edit on 3-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

silenceisall - Hi, a really nice summary of schizophrenia - I'm wondering if you have personal or professional experience with it to have been able to describe it so well? Myself personally, my son was diagnosed with schizophrenia nearly four years ago and I have been his sole caretaker since then at a great cost to me personally (in health and time). He was hospitalized twice, on meds now that have at least tamed the extremeness of it, but now has been so socially stumped (was 16 when it manifested) he is home 24/7.

I believe what you described is very accurate and understandable to an average person of what this disease really is - and I'm not sure what the ultimate aspect was that pushed my son over the edge into a psychotic break, but I'm looking for alternative solutions as well - like mineral toxicity as a possible cause/trigger and would be interested in learning more from you -

I know the accepted causes, but believe there is more to it because there are so many people becoming affected (like autism is now becoming almost epidemic!) -

I'm in a small town in Canada and resources here are limited. Thank you for your post -

Regards, Karyn.

Hi there. Schizophrenia runs in by family, on both sides.
I feel some of the base-state tendencies in myself from time to time. When such thoughts first began I was in my mid-twenties. Over time, they have increased and become more unusual. For example, it's way to easy for me to construct a grand conspiracy in my head involving aliens and all sorts of unusual things, and each time I am somehow the focus of, or a key player in, the conspiracy (which is a signal that the ego is partly driving the toughts). I have found personal success in dealing with these thoughts through studying some of the more enlightened spiritual thinkers. What they all seem to say is that the human ego--that part of us which makes us feel we need more attention and more things--is the cause of much of the dysfunction and negativity in the modern world. I got to thinking about this and realized that schizophrenia was partly, at least, caused by these ego needs. So instead of trying to filter all my strange thoughts (and when these thoughts come I get that tingle of truth everytime)I began to address my ego iftelf, which is what I was feeding with my fantasies. I soon realized that many of my odd conspiratorial thoughts no longer applied when I assumed an egoless perspective: that all people are remarkable and valuable, and no one, cartainly not me, is any more importnat than any of them...and most imporntnatly, that I needed nothing more to be whole. This is not to say that I think I am worthless or less than, but that I am simply a being among other equally remarkable beings.

The big challenge in treating people who already have the "illness" is in cutting through the reality barrier that they have built up around themselves. How to get in past that barrier? I suspect medication may be most useful in creating such an opening for treatment. Once the opening is created, the ego imballances must also be addressed by loving and enlightened theapists during those windows of oportunity. The best approach, I think, is in trying to help the patient realize that they are not their ego, while describing how the ego works. The books that I read which helped me the most when it came to dealing with my ego were Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth and Jiddu Krishnamurti's As One Is.

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215108254&sr=8-1

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215108277&sr=1-3

This does not mean that I think it is a waste of time searching for a physiological cause. I believe the base-states are psysiological in origin, but that the ego is an overlooked aspect in treatment. And no wonder--this society is totally ego driven. So much so that conventional medicine can't see the forest for the trees.

I hope this helps in any way. I wish you and your son the best. Courage.





[edit on 3-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by Silenceisall
Delusions of grandeur: when you believe that you are very special or have special powers or abilities. An example of a grandiose delusion is thinking you are a famous rock star.

Practically everything in your OP is how I would describe my mother, except for this line.

She started her schizo tendencies with thinking the people who live upstairs was recording her and conspiring against her. She cried non-stop for days. People manifested in her mind and she had names for them all. She told me her heart was full of gangrene and not to touch her.

That was 8 years ago, my father cares for her tirelessly.

As I remember my mother as I was growing up she felt all men were attracted to her.

I think the schizo mind may be from a infection from a ill bladder. Why? My mothers problems seemed to start when her gallbladder was removed due to its deterioration. I feel that her bladder may leak or something to that extent. Her symptoms worsen by 10 times when she gets a bladder infection. Once she goes on medication for the infect my dads says she's a new woman.

She is on little meds presently due to the Parkinson like problems she gets from it.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Rhain


Hi...I don't know if her bladder infection would be the cause, but you seem to have found some kind of connection. In my theory, the base-state is caused by physiological factors, and toxins from urine could possibly be involved, I don't know. I'm not a doctor, so I wouldn't want to speculate.

Your remarks about the ego elements of her condition seem standard to me, and I don't think the ego issues would be caused by any infection. As you know, the schizophrenic's thinking tendencies are very challenging to master. In my opinion, the only way to control them without drugs is to address the ego needs that are manifesting themselves in the paranoia. The challenge is getting through the self-programing that your mother has done. It may not be possible to eliminate her thinking tendencies without medication, but I think it is possible to pull the rug out from under them, by showing her how her ego is playing a big part in that paranoia and fear.

Just an aside on the Parkinsonian symptoms caused by the dopamine drugs...My aunt has schizophrenia and my father has Parkinson's. He has some of the irregualr thoughts, but the parkinson's keeps his domamine to a low level. I think there is a connection there.


I wish you and your mother the best.



[edit on 3-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

Here is a site that list 29 medical causes of schizophrenia.
causes

While what you have said may apply to some folks, I have serious reservations about it doing anything for most of them. The above article shows that in many cases it can be a side effect of definite physical causes that can be cured. I just don't think anything can be done for those who have inherited a defective gene. BTW it seems that Humans are the only creature subject to this problem.

I was married to a schizo for 5 years. At the time he did not seem to be self centered. He continually picked at percieved faults of others. He watched the ball games on TV while complaining that they were making mega-bucks while a brain like Einstein was getting only $10,000 a year. He could find loads of negative things to say about my Uncle that he met once, and about my Brother whom he had never met. He never put down my parents or myself. He did have some really strange reasoning on some matters. Like the decimal .5 is more accurate than the fraction 1/2.

In his case there was a very obvious physical sympton. That strong acrid body odor. When we were dating I had put it off to summertime and no AC. Later I found that it persisted in winter and was just as bad when he was fresh out of the shower. He was neat about himself, and otherwise well organized.

For him it was worse when he was drunk - every week-end, and got still worse when he got older.

reply to post by OhZone


Hi...I think there is a misunderstanding. You ex-husband had a needy ego, IMO, since he was someone who felt the need to diminish others in order to make himself feel better. That is standard ego behavior. Having a big ego or small ego is not the issue. Having any ego at all is the problem for people with schizophrenic tendencies...as far as I see it.





[edit on 3-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by another_lurker

 

...but this is an affection and love deficient society...

Under-statement of the day.

Thank you for your posts.

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by another_lurker

 

...but this is an affection and love deficient society...

Under-statement of the day.

Thank you for your posts.

reply to post by ItsTheQuestion


Yes...that's what it all comes down to.

I was diagnosed as having schizoaffective disorder along with DID. I was compared to John Nash, but still don't believe in that comparison. I have vague memories of a few alters but still have yet to aquire any knowledge such as other languages. It's as if it was more like possession than having alternate personalities.

A girl I had met several years ago told me her father was an idiot........savant. I now assume from recalling many of these repressed memories that she may have been my daughter, but I can't really trust these memories much now either.

My therapist claims these are all deusional and NOT present and talking about them is dissociation from reality. ATS is far from group therapy and I usually find myself just being ignored here anyway. Maybe it's better that way?

I guess I could say as far as the diagnosis and description of schizophrenia, I have pretty much had most if not all of the symptoms.

But since I have also recalled what now seems to be repressed memories of so-called alien abductions and sugeries to begin with, I'm still not sure of what's really the case either. Maybe all of the above?

Yeah, I'm so special, I managed to get on disability with help from certain unknown people that knew me better than I did.

It's my understanding that many schizo people are normally bipolar and that bipolar is very commonly undagnosed.....and that many end up becoming self medicators by various substance abuses.

Yeah, many people need better compassion and understanding. The word love has too many confusing meanings as does the word: 'Family'

But many of these people also need to have much better choices than what's usually offered.

One problem appears to be how law enforement treats and calls these people which is typically: 'Nutjobs'

From what I've heard so far, sadly many of these would also fit that category just as well.

Thanks for your post. Would you say that you are able to draw connections between events and concepts more easily than most other people? Also, would you say that you have a tendency to believe your thoughts right away? These two tendencies, for me, seem to characterize the underlying structure of the schizophrenic mind. In my theory--and it is only a theory--it is possible to short circuit these tendencies by directly treating ego malfunction. Ideally, the ego should be voluntairily eliminated or quieted by the patient themselves. This is difficult, because the patient must be convinced that this will help them--they must trust. The process would start with having the patient--who is stabalized by the more gentle meds--look at their ego, how it operates and why it does what it does. It is important to make them understand that they are not their ego, and that they do not need to be controlled by it. The ego is that part of our mind which seeks to distinguish itself from others, to make itself superior through the acquisition of material things or other markers of specialness. If this fails, then the ego will seek to distinguish itself with low self-esteem, by convincing us that we are less than others, inferior. Either way, the end result is to make itself feel separate from others...because that is its source of power over us.



[edit on 4-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by aleon1018
I was diagnosed as having schizoaffective disorder along with DID. I was compared to John Nash, but still don't believe in that comparison. I have vague memories of a few alters but still have yet to aquire any knowledge such as other languages. It's as if it was more like possession than having alternate personalities.

But since I have also recalled what now seems to be repressed memories of so-called alien abductions and sugeries to begin with, I'm still not sure of what's really the case either. Maybe all of the above?

Hi - I'm not totally up on the cut and paste stuff - but wanted to reply to the idea of schizophrenia being caused by an ill bladder - my first thought when I read that post is that (I believe) it is more likely the surgery was a trauma that brought on the schizophrenia rather than what the trauma was for - as I understand there can be triggers and environments that, when met, will bring it on in some cases.

Also as a note on these posts, that any of you 'with' schizophrenia can write a complete sentence tells me you have either remarkeably recovered are aren't as ill as you think (think - grimace - pardon that punn!)

My son can write a sentence, but cannot write a paragraph about anything and he'll be 19 soon. His meds have made wondrous changes, but I believe it's only treating the symptom not the cause, which I'm net unsure of -

The post with the 29 causes of schizophrenia (thank you!) were great - I printed them and will go through them - I was leaning towards copper or other metal toxicity to start with - and have been looking for a credible source of metal detoxifying products if anyone can direct me to some with a good reputation and record of success?

My son described his mind as not having a backboard which I thought was a perfect analogy as his thoughts, imagination, and reality have no barrier - he couldn't differentiate between fantasy, imagination, thoughts, reality so it was all real and all happening. I'm wondering if not having the ability to sort this out might be because there's not enough ego...?

And (finally to this post) - as you have mentioned 'repressed' memories of abductions and wondering about this, I would like to ask if there is a possibility these are real and/or a metaphor for satanic abuse or family abuse? The mind is amazingly clever in ways it will protect itself. I have no idea if this is so or not for you, but just wanted to offer it as a possibility that the schizophrenia you experience is a symptom of your real experiences in the end and not delusions (as opposed to bona fide schizophrenics who never had that experience). I have not heard of any cases (and I read a lot but do not claim to know it all!) that claim alien abduction per se... Thanks for reading !

To clarify - I have not heard of any schizophrenic case studies that included alien abduction, even my son, who lived with me and my ET studies all his life and never spouted any bible stuff went religious in his delusions - he was the new Christ -


[edit on 4-7-2008 by kshaund]

"Thanks for your post. Would you say that you are able to draw connections between events and concepts more easily than most other people?"

Since I was diagnosed as having schizoaffective disorder and Dissociative Identity Disorder, I don't think I'm really in the same category as most anyway.

Part or most of my problem seems to be my reading comprehension and concentration as if brain damaged. So this question is hard to answer directly. I have been accused of analyzing things to death by a former friend. When the trust is broken with these people; it seems almost impossible to mend it. They become the enemy. Comparing my thinking box to others isn't an easy task. I guess I could compare a schizophrenic or schizoaffective thoughts to a pinball machine. Sometimes stuck between to areas or like some neuron firing glitch.

Co workers family and friends can be cruel by getting them started. This is one reason I walked away from work, my apartment, my identification etc. for about seven weeks until I gave up and went to the hospital for a second suicide attempt. Seven weeks doesn't seem that long until you've lived it....or I mean survived it.

"Also, would you say that you have a tendency to believe your thoughts right away?"

Probably more than others. But I have changed my mind often. Typically I guess I have a tendancy to over-react negatively or the worse case scenarios. It's a type of guessing game. I usually don't see the world with those rose colored glasses. I doubt a faithful type schizophrenic will think they're wrong or delusional. .....Maybe they just prefer their explanations to others.


"......through the acquisition of material things or other markers of specialness. If this fails, then the ego will seek to distinguish itself with low self-esteem, by convincing us that we are less than others, inferior. Either way, the end result is to make itself feel separate from others...because that is its source of power over us."

Materialism seems to be a distraction and diversion. It doesn't usually make life that much easier and just adds to things you have to worry about losing. My disability amount each month is a short lived reward. I've yet to file a tax return just for $300.00...as if some demonic temptation, trickery or scam added to the game.

I prefer to rent while on disability rather than live under my families roof who have a tendancy to think they own me or have a right to think for me.

Much of my grief seems to be related to family distrust and negativity. Love and reward from my father was typically him allowing me to be in his presence at the dinner table without a scolding.

One of my first two childen with my first wife was diagnosed with bipolar and is now manic or has had schizophrenia more recently after being duped by a fellow church member buying some property and then tossing him out. Some of my own stories he apparently adapted as his own. The other is in denial that he has any related or similar issues.

Two of my childen with my second wife have seizures and the other one has been diagnosed with aspergers. Maybe it all has to do with diet, food and chemical sensitivities. I've been told I don't drink enough water and am borderline diabetic. My blood pressure is also eratic. My doctor keeps testing my thyroid, but won't say why. It's like I'm dying, but because of my mental state; they won't tell me.


What is you impression of the movie Hide and Seek with Robert De niro?

Was there some hint of any message in that or was it just fictional?

Hi...The negativity in your family background may be contributing to the negative thoughts/delusions that you have had. A lack of self-esteem seems to at least aggravate schizophrenia--if it is not one of the main causes. You asked about any messages in the movie Hide and Seek. I would say that we can interpret anything anyway we like, and people with schizophrenic tendencies are more likely to interpret events, movies, songs, etc, as being in some way specially meaningful to them. I believe that if the schizophrenic can stop thinking about themselves constantly (how good or bad they are) they may find some relief from the worst of the symptoms. Easier said than done, of course.



[edit on 7-7-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by Silenceisall
More challenging still, the schizophrenic also has a tendency to make connections where others do not see them. Two disparate and apparently wholly unrelated events can be strung together automatically—through highly creative speculation—by the schizophrenic mind, so that a cause-and-effect relationship is set up between them that would baffle most people.

Heh, I do this all the time... it's loads of fun. When I explain the connections I've made to others they seem to 'get it', so I can't be that crazy. It's amazing how many different ways you can interpret things.

Ego can definitely get in the way. I had to toss out the ego completely. It's a strange new world now. I no longer associate myself (that is consciousness) with my body. Often times when explaining something I even say "we" because I'll be speaking from multiple perspectives at the same time. It also makes it really hard to disagree with someone because anything can be true from a certain perspective.

If Schizophrenia is what I have, then it's a gift. Despite having gone to a shrink and explaining these things, I wasn't diagnosed with anything. Possibly because I don't have (or rather don't allow) the negative symptoms to manifest. The mind must be free of fear.

One might say the whole world is delusional. The only difference is that most people are sharing in the same delusion. Turns out the world isn't flat, heavier than air flight IS possible, and we CAN go into space. Anyone who thought differently in older times would've been considered delusional. Nope, society was.

Oh I will say... one of the strangest experiences is when you get the impression that the world 'talking to you'. Gotta throw that ego out, stat!