Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains

reply to post by TheBandit795

I finally bothered to look up the original article abstract in the Proceedings of the National Acadamy of Science:

www.pnas.org...

(I should spend the lousy $10 to get the full article, but I'm going to pass on that.)

According to the abstract, there is no change to the shape of the brain -- it is all the "mysterious activity" part of the brain as illuminated by an MRI and PET scan. I think this is significant because it doesn't appear to be a physical change to the brain, but just the brain activity after all. IN PARTICULAR, if I understand the abstract correctly, an autopsy on a dead brain could not be used to determine if the person was homosexual or heterosexual. Significant?

#

I also just did further research on "cerebral asymmetry", which this study uses to distinguish between homsexual and heterosexual people. I found there are lots of asymmetries between people. For example, people who are more emotional favor the left side of the brain. It shows up in MRI and PET scans.

SO! It appears what this study shows is that homosexual men may be more emotional heterosexual men, and homosexual women might be less emotional than heterosexual women.

Maybe that is ALL this study is really about.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
hmm. So sad that biological difference = defect to some people.

I'm guessing the same people who believe being gay is a sin and who believe in intelligent design. Thereby disproving their own intelligence. Answer me this: How can an intelligent design have defects?

Anon:

Being gay is not a sin, but in reality it is a human defect, otherwise mankind would no longer exist.

This thread has upset too many people.

I've got to bow out of here without further comment.

Good luck everyone.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by Buck Division]

I love this study. It's incredibly controversial. For one thing it gives some ammunition to those who view homosexuality as a congenital defect, and something that should be corrected in the womb. But that cuts both ways. It might also be discovered that some people who claim to be straight actually have "gay brains", and some might say they need psychological therapy to come to terms with their "true gay self".

You can show study after study on why it is or why it's not normal, why it is or why it's not a brain defect, or any host of things.

What really gets me though is how you can't even discuss it without extremists from both sides popping up and passing judgments.

You have the "OMG you think it's a defect?? You MUST be a gay hater!" people.

Then you have the "You're gay?? You're going to *&%^!!!" people.

To me, both those people are the same. Neither is open to any possibility. I suppose it's just the way of the world and some people will never change, regardless of what side they're on.

So, is homosexuality normal? Is it natural? By definition, it's both and neither. Look them up. Maybe you'll see what I mean.

But, in the big picture, does it really matter? I don't think so. People are just people.

Does a propensity to violence count as a mental defect?

If so, then those people do not contribute to the over-all procreation ability of the species...yet, we are now at over 6 Billion.

Does the occasional (heterosexual) man, who happens to produce insufficient sperm, contribute to the 'extinction' of the species? Does the (heterosexual) female who has an improperly formed uterus contribute to the 'extinction' of the species?

Is it a valid, in our society, to discriminate against a man and a woman who marry, but wish to NOT have children? HOW does that particular marriage affect anyone else???

They, the man and woman, who care not to procreate, are nevertheless sexually attracted, and share a bond....some call it love. Co-incidentally, there can be a similar same-sex attraction, and bond....called love.

So, three examples: A straight man and straight woman, one or both of them are infertile. A straight man and a straight woman, both decide to not have children. A Gay man and man, or Lesbian woman and woman, who simply wish to enjoy the rights and privelges that are afforded the first two examples, but are discriminated against because of knuckle-dragging homophobes, because somehow THOSE unions will adversely affect so-called 'family values'.

What a joke! 'family values'.....it is easy for most to 'make' a child....it is the ultimate test of responsibility to "care" for the child. How's that been going, so far??? Hmmmmm?

reply to post by phl0gist0n


phl0gist....interesting to consider, the 'correcting in the womb' idea.....

Einstein was poor in school, as a younster, yet his genius is legend. Would his genome have been tampered with, while in the womb, had the technology existed then? Would he still have been a genius?

Dr. Stephen Hawking....diagnosed with ALS in his twenties, given mere years to live....yet most of his greatest work still continues, decades later. I personally know a molecular biologist who suffered a brainstem stroke at age 18....28 years ago...rendering her uncommunicative, and completely dependant on others....at first. Yet, she still writes papers, using computer interfaces....can drive her electric wheelchair, uses the 'spelling board' (she hates the electronic voice of speech synthesizers) and continues to be a valuable source of thought and schollarly contribution. Fiercely independent, now....her own Condo....people exist all over the world, who contribute, even if we consider them "different".


If we wish to tamper, in the womb.....where do we stop???

Realy, where to stop? Autism? Epilpsy? Hair-lips? Possible ALS tendency????

What about blue eyes vs/ green eyes? Gender? Height? Do you really want to select your child from a menu?

It is a very touchy subject, and concept....no doubt. I have no answers. It is an ongoing discussion, I suppose......

Hey everyone!

I can tell yall, I was born gay, and I also think on both side of the brain.
Nooo sir rreeee it was not a choice to be gay.
Thats the way G-D created me.


Ya! I like to see a straight guy ever say he turn gay.
That has never happened, and never will.

The same with a gay men saying they turn straight.
That has never happened, and never will.

Oh, I have read some storys where gay men turn straight by going to church. LOL
If you all believe that then I am the Queen of England lol.
Those programs in church (DO NOT WORK) they have all proven to fail and in a lot of cases, a lot of gay men tried to comit suicide in those programs.

Hey I am happy being gay, I have been with my partner 16 years now.
I think we are normal, we live like normal people, we own our own home we pay taxes like anyone eles.
We do everything normal as anyone else.
Except one thing, what we do in our bed room, is not anyone business but ours.

People who can not tolerate homosexuals have a probem.
And thats is thier problem.( NOT MINE.)

Now back to ME! dont I look good in my picture my partner though I was a good catch lol.

reply to post by cashlink


cash.....and I know I'm going to bring down lightning bolts from the Mod named Zeus....or Thor....but your bit about what happens in the bedroom being no one else's 'busyness'....is right on. I will venture that straight people get far, far more freaky when it comes to personal....ahem....satisfaction.

Consenting adults. And, of course.....same-sex attraction CANNOT ever be forced on anyone.

Let me ask our audience, who happen along to read this. Say you're a straight woman. No, don't actually say it!!

Seriously, you are a straight woman. Does EVERY man you see attract you? I mean, from accross a room (assuming you're single to begin with) you spot a man who happens to fit what you think is attractive, physically. Or, you're introduced to a man, by a friend or friends. Either way, you are either attracted, or not....maybe it's physical at first, but after talking, ehhh....not so much! OR, you aren't particularly 'turned on' at first glance, but you connect emotionally, as time goes on.

That, folks, is attraction, plain and simple....and ulitimately --- love, if it gets that far.

It's not about gender, it is about himanity. [edit here...LOL! I coined a new word, accidentally!! Meant to type humanity....]

So....know this! Not every Gay man or Lesbian is immediately attracted to every person of the same gender that they see!!!

Just as, in my example above, not every straight woman is attracted to every man she sees. Of course, I could finish with the 'stereotype' about straight men being dogs, and going after every willing woman.....because, that is the 'stereotype' of straight men, as we've seen countless times in modern media.....

Hope this hits home to someone out there.....point being: Stereotypes don't work, except in Hollywood!



[edit on 6/17/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


LOL good post your right.

Ya, I never could understand why people thought gay people chased every man they see, because we know that not true.

Now for me, (slurp) if I really look like my picture I would be begging for men. LOL

Look at those Teeth .LOL

reply to post by cashlink


Guess I'm just 'outing' myself, because.....man!!! You look like the man of my dreams!!!

Oh, wait...hold on.....I just got a better offer. Sorry.....um, I've met a dentist and, erm, umm....well, you know how it is.....

(Congrats on 16 years, though. How many straight couples can claim to that record, by a show of hands???)


EDIT....and, oh! I was the model for the cartoon in my avatar....I the one hanging on the wall.....


[edit on 6/17/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Agent_Orange

Originally posted by Mayacara
Gay men are in no way defective they are just made differently from straight men.

Sorry, but males are males. When they are defective to the point where their brains function as female brains, and they act like females, that is not normal.

Well said, i agree.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by Gemwolf]

Some people are truly ignorant. No where in the article does it say that the entire brain of a homosexual man is the same as a female brain, only that during brain scans, a specific part or region of the brain appears to light up in the same way. I bet if we were given access to these brain scan images, you would see that it's only a tiny specific part of the brain that appears to be the same, but even then, they are not exactly the same, as some ignorant people would have you believe.

www.guardian.co.uk...

No where in the article has it proven that differences or similarities in brain size are responsible for a person's sexual orientation.

Savic's team has yet to confirm whether the differences in brain shape are responsible for sexual orientation, or are a consequence of it. To find out, they have begun another study to investigate brain symmetry in newborn babies, to see if it can be used to predict their future sexual orientation.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by kindred]

There will always be small minded people saying gays are wrong because thats how there brains are made, these god loving hillbillys have smaller brains so they brains cannot hold or accept any new information, its not there fault, they will lead boring lives thinking they are better than eveyone else when in reality, there just simple

That explains how both can talk on endlessly about nothing.

Originally posted by Agent_Orange
Hmm, so gay humans are defective after all and it is a disorder...

In which case so are straight women........stop cherry picking information to suit your gay paranoia.

Sorry if someone has asked this.......
.....what about bisexuals?

Originally posted by cashlink

Ya! I like to see a straight guy ever say he turn gay.
That has never happened, and never will.

The same with a gay men saying they turn straight.
That has never happened, and never will.

When it comes to the human mind. Everything is possible. The subconscious mind can be programmed to do things that the person would seem to have no conscious power or choice over.

But all programming can be erased through trauma resetting the brain to its default, natural state.

You can condition someone to think they're a chicken but once the bell rings they go back to being a person.

Originally posted by dbates
From a pure scientific point of view you could make the case that homosexuality was a defect since it doesn't result in offspring to carry out the genetic trait.

But homosexual people can still reproduce, they just don't find themselves sexually attracted to the owner of the corresponding input/output socket.

They are still perfectly able to reproduce if they so choose. Thus, any argument (not saying you were arguing this way) that homosexuality is wrong because it doesn't result in the continuation of the species is spurious, and could equally be used against infertile heterosexual men and women who cannot reproduce.


There have been other studies saying the same thing as this one, it's nothing particularly new and simply strengthens the case that homosexuality, as in the sexual attraction to people of the same gender is a natural occurance.

Of course, there is also the whole other side of the nature-vs-nurture argument, and that is where social conditioning comes into play - stereotypes of gay men liking shopping and fashion come down to social environment, not nature, just as they do in heterosexuals - For example, men aren't born liking blue and girls, pink - we are conditioned that these colours have gender specific meanings, they do not carry these traits intrinsically.


[edit on 17-6-2008 by VelvetSplash]