Jailed for Protesting Gitmo: 34 Convicted for Demonstrations Outside Supreme Court

reply to post by ybab hsur


You told him to 'go back to his conspiracy forums'...

This IS a conspiracy forum...

Anyhow this conversation has passed the threshold, of what the T&C restrict me from saying, and is now being terminated.

Originally posted by ybab hsur
reply to post by Purduegrad05

 

yeah, those planes didnt fly into the buildings

You're exactly right....I knew you'd see it my way!

i wasnt setting in my office watching it live on TV when the second one hit.

Neither was I since I was in college at the time and I didn't watch the "planes" hit the towers on tv either. But apparently, Bush watched the first "plane" hit the tower "live"....
video.google.com...=george%20w.%20bush%20first%20plane%20hit%20towre%20&sitesearch=

That's interesting since NO ONE else saw the first "plane" hit live!!!?
HAHA, Bush must be just kidding around then...I get it, my mistake!

Anyone who claims 9/11 was an inside job has no reason to be in a political forum. You go back to your conspiracy forums. They might have some inkling of respect for you there.Even level-headed liberals (cough - oxymoron - cough) in here could agree with me that you're wrong about it being an inside job.

en.wikinews.org...
Then I guess close to HALF of Americans are wrong, is that right?? State sponsored terrorism against it's own country is nothing new in this world and has happened to countries in the past to blame it on a potential enemy to justify a war or some other act.
Believe me, I understand your skepticism as I too believed the official story at first but not anymore. There are just too many unanswered questions, especially those of the victims families that were NEVER answered.
Do you know how much they spent on the investigation of 9/11 and the commission report?? $14 million and that's after an increase from $3million!!!!! What a joke!! They spent many times that on Bill Clinton and his BS with the fat chick so let's be real here for a second.

Yet, Starcraft is great!! I want to play the second one soon.


Purduegrad05

I understand your position and appreciate your opinion.

Freedom doesn't mean anarchy. With freedom, comes responsibilities. Freedom without responsibilities is chaos. Mob rule. Riots essentially.

In our country you are free to say whatever you want to, whenever you want to, wherever you want to. You are also free to live with the repercussions of your speech. That last part is where the disconnect is. For example, you are free to tell your boss what you really think of her: in no uncertain terms. You are also free to pursue a new method of employment after exercising your free speech rights. You are free to protest absolutely anything you want – with police protection….providing you go through the proper channels. Why must you go through the proper channels? Because this is how a society governs itself. People assembling on the streets to protest is a fundamental right – the right of assembly. It is not your (royal you) right to grief everyone around you because you have a “cause”.

You can get a permit, assemble and protest the color green, if you want to. The key is a permit. Why a permit? Because other people have lives and your ability to protest whatever does not supersede my ability to pursue life and liberty. Governments must balance the right of the people to assemble with the right of the people who don’t give a crap about the color green’s ability to pursue employment, walking about, going from place to place, etc.

What you railing about is my right to not be bothered with people who have a heck of a lot of time on their hands. If you (the royal you) wants to protest Club Gitmo, have at it. What you don’t have a right to is chaos, anarchy and disruption of other people’s day-to-day lives. That is, them exercising their freedom to not give a crap and continue on with their lives.

So, governments (thank God) have a permitting process to balance the need of those who aren’t protesting to remain unharassed and your right to march around in some city capital somewhere with your signs.

reply to post by Purduegrad05


LOL
typical liberal propaganda

you mis-edit my quote, and chop off the end of it to make it look like im agreeing with you

thats the only way you get people to agree with you - to lie, cheat, and steal.
Just like every other liberal on the face of the planet.

And there is a "FORUM" for 9/11 conspiracy.

Posting in "Above Politics" about a 9/11 conspiracy is the wrong forum to be posting in.

Why dont you go to the teletubbies website and post about barney???? They're both kids shows.

Wise up and get your heads out of the sand.

reply to post by ybab hsur


Just to reaffirm my "party" allegiance here, I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries for my state, the state of Connecticut. Just so happens to be the Constitution State, how ironic is that!! The Constitution....the very thing that allows those demonstrators the RIGHT to protest illegal actions supported by their tax dollars, namely Gitmo!! And, should Ron Paul's name not be on the ballot, I'm writing it in since I refuse to vote for the liberal scumbags Hilary and Barack and the Neo-Con McCain!! In fact, I HATE democrats....they're the ones trying to take my guns away. They can come and try to take them but they won't get them. And you can bet that once the guns are gone, free speech won't matter because we will be defenseless and demonstrations at the SC just won't happen!!

Yes, I did cut off part of what you wrote as a joke because I knew I would get that type of response from you in regards to my "no-plane" theory. There were NO PLANES used that day....don't take my word for it(kinda goes without saying ) and just do some research on it...

I was curious as to your response to this little gem I just found here on ATS??
www.daily.pk...

Apparently they are ALL wrong as well?? Since my word is not credible in your eyes, maybe you'll believe some TRUE PATRIOTS!! If you can't believe them, then there is no point in continuing this debate.


Purduegrad05


[edit on 2-6-2008 by Purduegrad05]

reply to post by ybab hsur

The people in these pictures lost the lives of their loved ones on a day when terrorist punks, associated with the afformentioned posters examples, decided to fly airline jets into the twin towers "World Trade Center"

And that has what to do with the innocent man in my picture who was detained and tortured for five years?

So, what I AM telling you is that i think of the victims. I say you do whatever it takes to make sure another 9/11 happens to innocent people, ANYWHERE, especially our own country.

Torture and murder people to save people everywhere huh? Hypocrisy is the enemy of the people.

Remember the victims of tyrany and terror.

Indeed.

It makes me sick with liberal yupp's stick up for the "rights" of criminal radicals, especially when those radicals are part of the problem, and never the solution (radical muslim movements, anybody?)

That's fine. Why are you be telling me this directly?

reply to post by ybab hsur

Anyone who claims 9/11 was an inside job has no reason to be in a political forum. You go back to your conspiracy forums. They might have some inkling of respect for you there.

Did you get drunk and fall onto the wrong website?

reply to post by ybab hsur

Posting in "Above Politics" about a 9/11 conspiracy is the wrong forum to be posting in.

Are you really that ignorant?

At the top of this very page it says this...

Member news submissions and discussions covering alternative subjects such as UFO's, conspiracy theory, government secrets, and political scandals.

[edit on 6/2/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by ybab hsur


Deny Ignorance,

Even I, that am not a frequent visitor of the 9/11 conspiracy forum believe 9/11 was an inside job, even my son that is not even a member of ATS believe also that 9/11 was an inside job.

What that has to do with liberalism? and the innocent people been torture and detained in Gitmo.

I think your patriotism, and political ideologies have some of your facts scramble.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by Purduegrad05


That article you posted is excellent I cant believe I never saw that. Im glad military officials are standing up to ask the what should be simple questions to answer if everything we have been told is the truth. If there is some lies it will be hard to answer a few but I just want one simple one answered how does 2 planes knock down 3 buildings.

reply to post by Karlhungis


How is that freedom. People are being told that they can't protest "here" but 10 yards away over in a cage they can say what ever they want. Do you think anyone will stand up with these people for whats right when they're in a cage. That's not freedom in my book.

reply to post by SleepyGE420


He was being sarcastic.

Karl you might want to just delete that post of yours LOL

on-topic:


(due to the fact that I am not in a free-speech zone, the above on-topic remark was made invisible.)

I'm not sure how those people organized their protest in the first place because that's not something likely to be reported in the news outlets. However, it seems to me that they didn't plan ahead far enough to avoid complications with the authorities. If they determined themselves to merely get together, make the signs then marched on the courthouse, then they were just begging for trouble.

I have a link that describes the best way to organize a protest. Consider this: Every Right we exercise also includes the inherent responsibility to avoid violating the Rights of others.
From the link above:

March 30, 2007:

By high noon, the “Vs” were facing the White House, in formation. Some were holding a 40-foot by 25-foot banner that read, “Dear Government…No Answers, No Taxes.” Four were holding smaller signs that read “Obey The Constitution – The Right To Petition.”

They waited about one hour for a representative of President Bush to approach them with some response to the Petitions.

As has been his wont, the President did not respond.

However, photographers, reporters, and tourists responded well to the rich imagery provided by the WTP demonstration. The appearance of dozens of “Vs” delivering such a message was attention getting to say the least...

...After the silent vigil in front of the White House, the “Vs” broke ranks and reformed, with banner and signs, a few hundred feet down Pennsylvania Avenue, directly facing the main Treasury Building where they waited a half hour for a representative of Treasury Secretary Paulson to respond to the Petitions for Redress -- especially the Petition regarding the privately owned Federal Reserve System and the violations of the money clauses of the Constitution.

As has been its custom, Treasury did not respond...

There were no arrests made, the enforcement authorities had no complaints...Why?
Because some time before the actual protest, the protest organizers had informed the authorities ahead of time what the protest was going to be about & also gave assurances that there would be no public disturbances & no violence initiated by any of the protesters.

The protesters did not obstruct anyone else, but other people stopped & talked with the protesters, who in turn were willing to answer questions & give information about the protest itself. The Washington Post published an article about the protest, plus there were a lot of other people who talked with the protesters, took pictures & videos.

This, I believe, is what it means to accept the inherent responsibilities that come with the exercise of our Rights...If the protesters in the OP did not plan ahead & prepare to accept the responsibilities, then they could easily be considered acting as a "mob" or a "picket line" instead of a "protest" & be charged accordingly to their actions.

Don't get me wrong here: I admire that they felt strongly enough about the issue to organize a protest & I agree with the issue of the protest itself...But it looks to me as if they ignored the responsibilities that are inherent to the Rights they exercised.

Originally posted by mybigunit

Hmm so we must know all the laws of free speech. We much do all the research hey where can we protest or not. Its notions like this that make me laugh and I know this isnt you Vor but a lot of people think this way oh they must know what and where they can say in free speech to have free speech. This disgusts me and I hope lawsuits fly.

Interesting how people ignore the article itself. They were told they COULD protest on the sidewalk in front, just not in the Plaza or they would risk arrest. The fact they chose to take it to the Plaza speaks volumes about their character and intentions. Their message would have been just as effective had they remained on the sidewalk.

Back to the topic:

I have no issue with their protesting or the cause they chose. My issue is with their childish behavior which in fact insures rational people will never pay attention to them. It makes them nothing more than humorous anecdotes.

I'm also not foolish enough to not realize that most people being detained are part of a Jihad who's stated goal is our destruction. To think they are innocent little lambs is naive to the point of lunacy.

I will admit that there may be a tiny number who should not be detained and I'm all for holding public trials under our laws. I'm also opposed to torture of any kind to be honest. Don't be so quick to judge people like me "Rednecks", whatever that means. I agree with some of their points.

My main point is had they stayed on the sidewalk, where they had every right to protest, they would have credibility and people would listen. When they choose to get arrested on purpose through a childish act and then boohoo about being arrested, as if it was not their intent all along? That screams to me they wanted attention and just happened to pick that cause out of a hat to get it. If they really wanted to make a difference they would stop acting like adolescents.

YOU CAN NOT BEAT THE SYSTEM! You can however learn to use it. Want to make a real difference? Learn to use it. Otherwise they are just more Bozo's on the bus.

You want to see people who protested the right way; look to people like Kerry or McCain. As diverse as their views are they both made a difference. One by taking it before Congress to get attention the right way, the other by refusing special treatment and paying a terrible price. I would probably never vote for Kerry, but he has my complete respect for how he conducted himself. Those old enough here will know what I mean.

I'd give my life to protect their right to protest on that sidewalk, but not so much as moments consideration for their right to do what they chose to do. If that makes me a Redneck, I wear that name as a badge of honor.

reply to post by ybab hsur



One would think that by now ,most folks seeking the truth, at least smelled something fishy when bldg7 went down!

I served my country in the VietNam lie...altho I didn't know it then.

Here are some current folks who are putting their necks on the line, NOW!!! ...;

Military Questions 911



It saddens me to see decent people like you still falling for the big lie.

Maybe you'll reconsider who it is that really is the enemy.

reply to post by Blaine91555




Maybe them protesters are NOT who we think they are!?!?!

You know, kinda like the so-called Christians who protest at funerals! [ those ain't real Christians! sounds more like a smear job to me ]

Maybe the same thing is going on here, with the real intent being, to smear the truth movement!?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they just got carried away. But one thing is for sure. It is one thing to report on an event, it is another to set it up to go a certain way without the citizens or the media knowing anything about it til wayyyy after the fact, and the BIG LIE is BELIEVED.

It is our countries history to do people wrong and spin the story only for the truth to leak out over the years, past the point of it mattering anymore. Read gory details;

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212456845&sr=8-1

Lincoln has been put up on a pedestal, but the truth is, he was a double talking constitutional back stabber that oppressed the south from their right to secede as they saw fit. Lincolns job was to centralize the power of the government. But you'll never get that in school or read it in a book listed in the NYT best sellers list. Lincoln pooped all over peoples rights, intimidated people, encouraged the trashing of unfriendly newspapers etc and much much more. That is never talked about either. Read gory details here;

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212457356&sr=1-1


If we aren't smart enough to figure out the lies, then they'll just keep streamrolling right over us. Carrot in front of donkey... Like they're doing right now...

"Article 6, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states that any law or treaty that the US is party to is the supreme law of the land and binding on all U.S. courts (including this one).
If this statement were true, the native americans would still own this land. The USA has never honored any treaty made that goes against it's greater policy of control and domination. That's what "Manifest Destiny" was back then, and that's what this is now, only we, the American people are the native americans. The torture of prisoners is a horrendous act, but it is only the beginning. Hang onto your hats folks, wew are about to experience a little...turbulence.

reply to post by cmongo4


"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."


Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.


The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.


Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time. "

Each generation must take up the task. I believe in progress! There is progress and each of us are either part of the problem or part of the solution. However progress is much slower and more painful than most people want to acknowledge.

See how easy the disinfo agents have it?

INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE BEING TORTURED, and they steer the conversation to 9/11, illegal/legal protests, etc. Anything to get the focus off the fact that people are being detained, without trial, and are being tortured. WE KNOW FOR A FACT AT LEAST ONE INNOCENT MAN WAS TORTURED AND KEPT IN PRISON FOR 5 YEARS WITHOUT A TRIAL.

And now, on topic: Is it easier to walk around a protest on a small sidewalk, or a large plaza? I'll leave that one up for discussion.

This isn't about whether they were disturbing anyone or not. This is about CONTROL. "You will protest where we SAY you can protest, and nowhere else!"

Get it?

Learn to see the big picture, and the disinfo agents are easy to spot.

People seem to like to through around this junk about you can only practice your rights if they don't infringe on another's rights. If somebody comes up to you and says "you cant practice your rights because my rights (or another's rights) are being infringed upon," wouldn't they be infringing upon your rights?

How do we decide who's rights are more important? Well apparently its whoever is in the pursuit of happiness.