Bible view on premarital sex

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by dbates
Incorrect! Premarital sex is treated much differently(Adultery and homosexuality recieved the death penalty). Please don't make broad sweeping statements without backing them up.

dBates I think I have to disagree. I think Jesus came a long and raised the bar from the Exodus passage you refer to.

Matthew 5

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That is why even lust is in the same category.

...Continued from elsewhere.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by dbates]

What Jesus was clearly saying is that you should lust after someone else's wife even if you don't commit the act. He clearly and specifically mentions adultery. That is having sex with a married person that you are not married to. I don't think that God would frown on a unmarried man wanting an unmarried woman sexually. Men are created to want this. You need no further proof than to look at the percentage of young men that desire young women..

While it does seem that it's wrong for someone to have sex with an unmarried woman, it didn't recieve the same penalty as adultery. Adultery was punishable by death. Having sex with an unmarried woman resulted in the forced marriage of the woman and man(Exodus 22:16-17), which is different from being stoned to death. (depending on the woman)

Yes you might be correct but why do people get married in the first place?

Because God preffered two souls to join into one flesh which continues after death as well... the connection I mean..

So if you are for real about a women or man, why not bind it with Gods blessing in marriage?

Some people just want flings and God reads the heart so he sees whos who and what desires are what..

I know I have had bad desires before too, I will pay for it greatly, but God wishes us to find opur soulmate and actually have some deepness in this life..


peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
So if you are for real about a women or man, why not bind it with Gods blessing in marriage?

For sure. I agree completely with that statement. I was just differing on the premise that premarital sex was equivalent to adultery.

reply to post by dbates


Hi. In the Old Testament the bar was actually higher, or perhaps we should say broader than you suggest. Premarital sex carried the death penalty. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

It is perhaps less well known as it comes in a passage that includes both ceremonial and moral laws.

This is a subject in itself, but basically laws that are connected to the ten commandments are moral laws, which are still valid for us to today (i.e. the moral law-code of God, showing us how to live his way). Laws not connected to the ten commandments are ceremonial laws relating to the conduct of priests, the items in the tabernacle, etc., and thus are not relevant to the New Testament era. This often confuses people who have a superficial knowledge of the Bible, as they think that by quoting obscure laws that are clearly not relevant for us today they can show that the moral laws relating to sexual conduct are no longer valid.

Surely the main point is that if we are Christians who worship God in response to the Gospel we wish to live God's way, and that way is clearly laid out in both testaments.

The high standards remind us that God is a being of infinite moral purity. Thank God He is gracious, and has found a way to offer us forgiveness and the strength to learn to hate our natural lusts and to learn to love Him, His ways, and our fellow men.

Ok dBates I respect your willingness to discuss this.

I disagree. The penalties in exodus were mainly to preserve the Jewish race for the line of the Messiah, it was not divine justice. The Pharisees were all about outward appearances. Jesus accused them of being white washed tombs. Nice on the outside, rotten on the inside. He is raising the standard. The exodus law is not sufficient for Gods true standard. It's what is in your heart that God judges you by. "That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery" The act of looking to lust is equivalent to adultery. Fornication is lust carried out. It is in the same league as all sin.

The teaching of Jesus is not only about a specific sin of adultery like you try to argue...

In a similar fashion :

21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

He is raising the bar from your actions to your thoughts and feelings. If you lived a perfect life and committed one small sin , under the law you would get Hell. So how can you say the sin of fornication is superior to homosexuality or adultery?

Great topic. Glad you gave us an avenue to discuss this here since we couldn't on the other thread. I actually learned some things I didn't know/notice before.

So, going by the OT Jewish Law, adultery/homosexuality had more severe consequences than premarital sex (with the exception of P4T's passage cite and one or two others).

Here is a general question since that was OT Law (where there was no separation of church and state) and NT grace (where all sins seem equal). First of all, thank goodness we are free from the law. It certainly seems like adultery is a huge no-no. However, aren't all sins, with the exception of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, equal while we are under grace?

It would seem to me they are all 'spots and wrinkles' and although adultery seems more serious, premarital sex is also an affront in the eyes of God and lessens the sanctity of the marital union (and please don't think I was not guilty of this myself although I previously and later practiced abstinence). To me it would seem whether you take $5 out of someone's wallet who isn't looking or rob a bank of $5,000, it is all the same in the eyes of God. It would seem to me that having premarital sex and postmarital adultery would also be equal. Any sin is an offense that separates us from Him.

Just my two cents even if they differed under OT Law. It would be like murder being more severe than physical assault in the U.S. judicial system. I assumed that is what Whammy was getting at in the other thread with all sins being equal in Jesus' eyes to calm some tensions and was trying to show even heterosexuals endure the same sexual temptations.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Ok dBates I respect your willingness to discuss this.

I disagree. The penalties in exodus were mainly to preserve the Jewish race for the line of the Messiah, it was not divine justice. The Pharisees were all about outward appearances. Jesus accused them of being white washed tombs. Nice on the outside, rotten on the inside. He is raising the standard. The exodus law is not sufficient for Gods true standard.

its not raising the standard. its principle vs. law.

the pharisees lived by the law. the law says do not sleep with the mate of another person. with that law, a person could reason, ¨well, it´s ok if we fool around, as long as we dont have sex right?¨or¨i can have an emotional affair with the person because theres no sex.¨ or a myriad other wierd situations where someone can try to find some loop hole.

i had a jewish friend who had boy friends who she liked to fool around with. i asked her how she does that if the bible says not to fornicate. she replyed basically saying if there is no penetration, then she´s not fornicating.

the pharisees were doing this all the time. especially with laws like the sabbath.

jesus was telling them the true spirit of the law. adultry is wanting something that is not yours. simple as that. didn´t matter if you commited the sin you not, you shouldn´t want to.

kind of goes for other things as well.

as for whether fornication is worse, same or less than adultry... i would assume its all the same.

romans says the wages sin pays is death. even adam and eve died for eating a piece of fruit.

i think (and this is just personal opinion) that its not the sin thats bad as much as whats behind it. adam and eve rebeled when they ate the fruit. they were willfully telling god that they wanted to be independant.

i get the feeling its the same with other sins. if a person commits adultry, they are basically saying to god that they want to do things their way.

just my 2 cents

Well I hope you're right cause this saves my [snip] lol.


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[edit on 8-4-2008 by elevatedone]

reply to post by pause4thought

Excellent points. (From everyone else too) I think though that the punishment in this case was due to the fact that she hid she wasn't a virgin from her family. It seems clear in the other verse that neither are stoned or killed in the first case I mentioned.

At any rate there is no out for homosexuality or adultery ever mentioned. This seems like one of those things like the cities of refuge that the Israelites had. For instance if you accidentally killed someone you could hide out in a city of refuge until the High Priest died and not be killed in turn. However if you were caught outside of the city, the relatives of the deceased could rightfully take your life in return. It's almost as if God understands the difficulty of the situation and offers a way out. In this case it's forgiven if you marry the girl you had premarital sex with.

The main difference in my opinion is that God said to be fruitful and multiply. What's implied is that men and women have sex. So God not only gave men a strong urge to have sex, he encourages it. There are restrictions of course to prevent a lot of heartache. Within the proper boundaries it's not only allowed, it's commanded. A clause for homosexuality was never given.

That said, don't have sex before marriage because you could really mess up your life if you end up getting pregnant, paying child support to a woman you don't love, or catching an STD from someone who sleeps around. Plus it looks as if you're supposed to marry anyone whom you have sex with. It's better to do it the other way around first.

The Bible view on premarital sex, it's pretty serious.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Now even more question, what about masturbation?

Source

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
The Bible view on premarital sex, it's pretty serious.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Now even more question, what about masturbation?

Source

it makes you blind lol

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
The Bible view on premarital sex, it's pretty serious.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Now even more question, what about masturbation?

Source

Well that's pretty clear, seems to rule out most, if not all, of mankind.

So just who is going to inherit The Kingdom Of God, certainly no-one I've ever met.

reply to post by Freeborn


Hi. It's a great pity the following sentence was omitted:

Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified (= set apart to live for God), but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Source: 1 Corinthians 6:11

The human race can breathe a sigh of relief - Heaven's door is open wide to all who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and turn from their old way of life. If Christ had not died to pay the price for our sin, you would have been correct, though. God being perfectly just cannot ignore moral corruption and is unable to accept it into His immediate presence. With the penalty paid, though, all that barred the door has gone, and we can be welcomed back, as in the parable of the Prodigal Son!

Just to add that the list of offences you read were just examples. Any human who has ever broken God's laws in thought or deed is morally repugnant to God. Yet His love for them is so intense, He was prepared to give up what was most precious to Him to redeem them (=pay the price to buy them back). Jesus voluntarily accepted that His Father would pour out His anger at our sin and rebellion on Him.

Perfect justice, perfect love and mercy. That is the Cross.

reply to post by Jazzyguy

Now even more question, what about masturbation?

Like I said above consider what Jesus means by this teaching.

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (matt 5)

Isn't masturbation usually associated with lust?
Don't they go "hand in hand"

Don't think I am judging anyone or claiming perfection. But we are supposed to aim for perfection. From the same sermon by Jesus (Matt 5:48)

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

None of us is capable of it yet. We have a sin nature that lives inside of us. But we are supposed to try to resist it.





[edit on 4/9/2008 by Bigwhammy]

The forging of the hearts in love, and not merely love of the flesh creates an everlasting bond.

When two fall to the lust of the flesh but the two have not bound at the heart a bond that is everlasting, they have transgressed.

When one knows the experience they are undertaking is merely a passing experience, they have committed adultery.

Taking this one step further, The Lord says the following in this matter:

The ruler of the feast had heard that Jesus was a master sent from God, and he requested him to speak. 3 And Jesus said, There is no tie more sacred than the marriage tie. 4 The chain that binds two souls in love is made in heaven, and man can never sever it in twain. 5 The lower passoins of the twain may cause a union of the twain, a union as when oil and water meet. 6 And then a priest may forge a chain, and bind the twain. This is not marriage genuine; it is a counterfeit. 7 The twain are guilty of adultery; the priest is party to the crime.

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy. Both are attracted to each other and over a period of time, wild horses could not separate their hearts that have been brought together.

The commitment of love and devotion to each other, in servitude and unity creates a bond of stone.

Intimacy under this gift strengthens the bond.

The OP of pre marital sex was stained from the outset of the post.
Sex without love and devotion without the establishment of life long commitment is wrong.

The question is can we see past the passion and desire off the wants of the flesh and do what is right.

Ask yourself which is best.

When confronted with lust, imagine the person your lusting after could read your mind.
Imagine his or her spouse could read your mind. His or her father.

Purity in thought makes purity in heart

Peace



[edit on 11-4-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Hi. I think you ought to have pointed out for the sake of people who do not know the Scriptures that your quote does not come from the Bible, and that the words quoted have no authority for Christians. The other points you make also sound like philosophy rather than teachings of Scripture. What do you take for your authority in this matter if not the Bible?

reply to post by pause4thought


Do you believe that the Bible contains all of Christ's teachings in exclusivity?
That perhaps there are other forms of witness that were not included?

Would you agree with the following statement?

"There are many things which I have to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit the Spirit of Truth whom I will send unto you from above, shall guide you into all truth, and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you from above, shall guide you into all truth, and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you."
"After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away, and the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth with healing in his wings."
"I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. The doctrine which I teach is that which I am. I am It and It is I."

Do you disagree with the above passage?

The Sheep will know the shepherd by his voice.

The Truth is the Truth is the Truth.
The Truth terminates hate,
and ultimately restored the Truth.

Jesus is alive, and his ways and teachings are not confined to the limitations of the account of Jesus in the bible. The Fathers instruction to all of us is supplemental to scripture.

One merely needs to look at this passage in Job to understand there is teaching beyond:

"In dreams and visions of the night when deep sleep falleth upon men, then doth the All Wise open their ears and send to them instructions."--Book of Job.

I can hardly credit the assembly of a group of men with the allowance or removal of scripture such as the council of Nicea. With recent appearance of additional doctrine, it is clear to me that the entire image of Christ and his teachings are not here in their entirety.

And as Christ stated, the Spirit of Truth will bring into our remembrance all that he has said.

Peace


[edit on 11-4-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY

"After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away...The doctrine which I teach is that which I am. I am It and It is I."

Not from the Bible. Spurious.

And as Christ stated, the Spirit of Truth will bring into our remembrance all that he has said.

Er, no. That's what he said to the people who were to be involved in writing the New Testament. He can't bring things to our remembrance that we never heard being said in the first place!

With recent appearance of additional doctrine, it is clear to me that the entire image of Christ and his teachings are not here in their entirety.

It is clear to Christians that you are a false teacher on very dangerous ground. These are virtually the final words of God's authentic Word:

I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book.

I don't claim to understand exactly what that entails, but I wouldn't want to be someone who finds out. Do you?

[edit on 11/4/08 by pause4thought]

Let me preface by saying that I am spritual - a horribly failed Catholic - I go to church every now and then and mostly believe the tenents of Catholicism/Christianity.

However, I am not so deluded as to interpret the Bible literally, and neither do most people if they are truly honest with themselves. Flames be damned... Let's face it, the Old and New Testaments are moral parables to keep the newly civilized rabble in line and disease free. The higher-minded ideals of Christianity have appeal, but the specific lifestyle references and recommendations have only served to guilt humanity for eons.