Important Information about AbovePolitics.com and ATS

I think it's an excellent idea to create a new sub-forum within ATS for such topics.
Most new members are not even aware that there is an Above Politics board and I didn't even find out about it until months after I joined this forum. I even thought about participating in that forum a few times but was feeling like an "outsider"... that's why I never posted anything there. But the conversations on that board were very intellectually stimulating and I hope that continues after the transfer.

But as Dave Rabbit mentioned, those topics that are in AP are finally going to get the attention that they deserve by members here now that we've got a Presidential election coming up very soon. That they will be included in ATS is a good idea because many of us do not venture outside of ATS to those other boards here because we prefer just staying in one place. Odd how that is but that's how I am and I think a lot of other members here are like that too.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by Palasheea]

"The AP forum will be dedicated to political discussion and debate that is elevated well-above partisan issues and seeks to dig deep in a productive and meaningful way."

I am both pleased and honored to hear this news. I believe that REAL political debate happens you get past the partisan barrier.

We (all of us) have a chance to do something here that's not being done elsewhere. Anyone can put on partisan gloves to pummel the people they disagree with. Most of the time, the argument is "won" through hateful shouting.

What you see happening on ATS is a REAL contest of proofs and ideas. Logic, reason, and rationale. The insider secret is that you DO NOT have to agree with the other guy. Hear 'em out, then speak or be silent. All you're being asked to do is think before you reach for that keyboard.

This change of venue will be good for hte Martin and I. It'll be good for the future of The AP Show. As I look at my show notes, I'd like to point out a few things.

1. 7 out of 10 shows have involved conversation that do link news events and conspriacy theory.

2. 3 out of 3 interviews so far have discussed correllations between the news...and...cosnpriacy theories.

3. In recent shows, we've been "showing our homework." That means we've been putting up a list of ATS, AP, and BTS threads that have been used as research for the show. 90% of those have come from ATS.

It's been my experience that most ATS subject matter is talked about with "the news" in mind. There's a lot more political thinking in the mix than most of you may realize.

Martin and I look forward to this move. Now, I have to go and pack.

Are PTS points going to be put back into the ATS point total?
Not that I'm a point whore or anything .. I'm just curious.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Are PTS points going to be put back into the ATS point total?
Not that I'm a point whore or anything .. I'm just curious.

I think the official policy will be to delete the points of anyone who asks and then



Seriously, I'm interested in that question as well.

Originally posted by intrepid

I'm sure that would make a lot of people here happy!

Many don't 'appreciate' my crabby old-Irish-Lady personality.

(I actually have other ethnic DNA .. but the Irish DNA is tough and seems to have overtaken everything! )

reply to post by intrepid


i lose my PTS points im blaming you ntrepid and will hold you
responsible,


well someone needs to be there to take the blame

BIG MISTAKE

Change is needed but…
It’s not actually necessary to completely merge any of the forum boxes. Currently these are only accessed from the “board home” button and so could still be accessed that way; especially if the button was converted to a “board breakdown” button.
That would benefit those who want to view specific areas of politics.

Another advantage of my system would be that moderators could decide that a particular post was strictly topical, meaning it could only be viewed through the board breakdown button.
The advantage is…
1. Fringe topics don’t have to float around polluting the new found populist agenda of the merged forums.
2. But posters are compensated with at least one place they can post their “topic specific” subjects.

The only disadvantage I can see is that someone posting a thread would have to spend about 20 seconds listing which one (if any) of the topic specific boxes their thread should appear in. Likewise someone posting in one of the existing topic “specific forum” would have to decide if they’re thread is suitable for any of ATS’s newly proposed merged forums.
Even so; it’s still 20 seconds.

About the Idea In Hand…
The advantage of ATS’s proposed merging idea is essentially an advertising one (because it would allow thread titles to be viewed by more people at once, at the cost of less browsing).
To summarise my stance: It’s a good idea that should be pursued with a separate (and dare I recommend the most prominent) board button.

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

I think something about talking politics turns the average blogger off. I gave it a shot, but it just always felt hard to keep the topic going once I posted my pov.

I think political conspiracies is enough. Maybe there would be more need for political forums if people still had reason to care about politics and their party but its becoming blatantly obvious that democrats and republicans work more for lobbyists and not the people.

I say good move for ATS.

reply to post by Techsnow


Perhaps you misunderstand, ATS is not getting rid of the Political boards or Political discussion here. They are merely moving it back from it's dedicated site to the main ATS site.

This move is in effect a way to increase political discussion here, not prevent it.

Politics at ATS also goes much much deeper than merely Republican/Democrat bickering.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
This is really no surprise. I've mentioned several times to moderators who move my threads that PTS is a dead zone, and essentially a death sentence for threads.

Its sad because there's a lot of great information and discussion in PTS, its just a lot slower on average than the typical ATS discussion.

I was disappointed when the campaign fell through, but that is that.

I think this is going to be a great move regardless.

-----------------------------------------
Actually, it was created to kill a story, or suppress a story if the flavor was too hot with a chili bite in it. Any political story or an article should be allowed to run it's course, no matter what's the vibes, it is only then, that people have the opportunity to express their views and it is this approach that molds the various articles into an expression of knowing what's behind the scenes.

This move is a welcome step in the right direction.

You can remove Bush from the Bush, but you cannot remove the Bush from Bush, it will always be Bushie.

reply to post by Dave Rabbit

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit

Well, one major thing that everyone should be aware of is that the political threads and topics are going to get significantly more attention with this move because of the sheer number of members and guests who predominantly stay on the mother ship page of ATS.

Yes Dave, you're absolutely right. And I worry about that. It has been my experience that the topics in PTS were almost always head and shoulders above those on ATS. It seems that on ATS, most readers never get beyond reading the OP Title before they form an opinion. An example I gave on the BBQ forum was a particular thread that had 24 STARS (Plus 46 More) without a single word being spoken by the author.

The reason? On ATS you will find many members have a very negative attitude towards the US and the current administration.

When PTS was alive and kickin', members were pretty much policed by the other members. There were much fewer WARNing flags thrown, it seems. Personal attacks were almost non-existent. Spelling and grammar were much better.

reply to post by Gools

Originally posted by Gools
Re-integration of the two boards does NOT mean open season for the purveyors of the immature and artificial left/right; red/blue; conservative/liberal divide that seems to infect everything to do with US politics.

That's why the ATS posts have so many more replies than PTS posts. If you eliminate the "American hating" posts from ATS political threads, you'd see the number of posts reduced by over half. It's not only the infighting between political philosophies that clogs the threads.

Originally posted by Gools
People who can't separate their politics from their opinions on other matters will likely have themselves a hard time on ATS, so take this as a fair warning.

I take that as a thinly veiled threat directed against members who don't spend much time on ATS, but instead, tend to post in PTS. I think you're wrong, and I think the "fair warning" was uncalled for.

conspiracy theorists make me laugh
the things they believe, i just don't get it

crazy conspiracy theories man, insane ideas like big government is good for the people, being anti-war is unpatriotic, war in iraq is a good and moral war, the need for the FED, and even crazier ones.

it's almost like comedy, but it's really horror

reply to post by jsobecky


jsobecky and I tend to disagree, due to our political stance, but he is spot on about PTS

The beauty of PTS was mature and well constructed debates. I do not recall one major incident involving mud throwing, in fact, you could post your position without being called a nazi, zionist, [insert tag]. It was nice to discuss politics without someone mentioning freemasons, greys or the illuminati.

We had polite disagreements over in UK politics, but no personal attacks and no name calling. All of us are freinds over there. As a liberal, I could freely talk to conservatives and debate issues with no problems.

Here is PTS at her best, the Perfect Party, all who posted in the thread had different views but we came together to build on ideas. I put forward a plan to reform the UK tax system and dealing with national income. Others dealt with constitutional reform.

My point?

You could not post a thread like that on ATS without someone bringing up Rothschild and Jews controlling the banking system. I tried dicussing politics on ATS and made critical remarks about Ron Paul's policy, well guess what? I got accused of supporting the NWO And I praised Bill Clinton for dealing with the 9/11 heckler, which resulted in me being accused of spreading government propaganda

I, like many, am sad to see PTS move

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I think this is a great idea.I also agree that politics and conspiracies go hand in hand as far as the topics posted goes.
I did make an attempt at AP but I didn't want to request yet another password.I had to do this for BTS.
I never used to be a fan of politics but over the years it has become a deep interest to me.
I look forward to seeing other members and their opinions in the newly integrated board.
This is one of the reasons I enjoy ATS,because the owners of this site,Mods and Members are always looking for ways to improve the quality and usability of this wonderful place.

I'm very happy with this integration. Nearly all ATS threads seem to involve politics in some shape or form, and a great deal seem to revolve around it. Integrating the forums saves the trouble of using both sites (causing my to neglect PTS).

I suppose that I'm ambivalent for the most part. I've spent a lot of my time on PTS lately, but as long as the political forums are accessible from *somewhere* then I'm OK with it.

I too am interested in how the points will be integrated.

/tn.

I certainly have some reservations about this as I am not a conspiracy theorist. If the integration goes ahead I wont be able to have a discussion about Iran with out being accused of swallowing US propaganda nor will I be able to have a discussion about economics without the usual calls to scrap the Federal Reserve . I want to be able to escape the environment where people read into things that aren't there or don't question something that appears on a crack pot website.

The nature of the topics and this being an election year in more then one country ATS is bound to infected with partisan politics that use to be kept seperate . The longest thread I have participated in was on AP so much for the notion that AP is a thread killer. If you want the quiet AP forums to be active simply appoint new FSME who aren't mods. As for AP languishing in obscurity that really is an exaggeration.

I see no reason why the quality of purely political discussion will improve with integration .

Originally posted by xpert11
I see no reason why the quality of purely political discussion will improve with integration.

This merger will bring you in to contact with more posters, who are going to challenge what you say. That, by itself, will provide you with new challenges. Bear in mind that SO says you'll soon be able to click in to an Above Politics forum.

Lots of people stick to "their patch" of ATS. The AP forum will still be populated by all the names and faces that you've come to know and love. As FMSE's, Martin and I will be able to provide you with a more than just 45 minutes of audio insight each week.

I can appreciate everyone's concern. Change can be scary, especially when it impacts you directly. We ARE doing something special here. It's never easy to have high-grade political discussions, even though they may sound easy on your ipod. The same thing is true when you reach for that keyboard.

As we strive to reach the next level of discourse, we have to do "next level" things like...changing formats.

I blame it on having to log in a second time. The main reason I don't visit BTS or PTS is because I don't want to log in for a second time... maybe I'm the only one suffering from that extreme level of laziness though.

reply to post by Justin_Case

Originally posted by Justin_Case
I can appreciate everyone's concern. Change can be scary, especially when it impacts you directly. We ARE doing something special here. It's never easy to have high-grade political discussions, even though they may sound easy on your ipod. The same thing is true when you reach for that keyboard.

As we strive to reach the next level of discourse, we have to do "next level" things like...changing formats.

Justin

It's true that this will bring more interaction in threads. However, I was there in the past, along with you and others, when Politics was an integral part of ATS. It was not the wonderful rainbow of diversity that some are projecting it will become.

In fact, one thread, several years ago, still sticks in my mind. A poster openly complained that ATS was becoming "too Republican". And I remember the response by one very top dog here: "Not for long".

I foresee the normal period of chaos replete with off-topic ad hominem attacks and labeling people Bushies and neocons, etc. Then will come a period of heavy-handed moderation to quell the fighting. Then will come - and this is the scary part - the attempt to bring "balance" into the political discussions. We'll have our own version of the Fairness Doctrine.

Most people who are political junkies are not afraid of change. We anticipate it, and predict it with high degrees of accuracy. What we're uncomfortable is the feeling that this is not a step forward, but a step backwards.