Gay California student's slaying sparks outcry

Gay California student's slaying sparks outcry

www.msnbc.msn.com

OXNARD, Calif. - Larry King was a gay eighth-grader who used to come to school in makeup, high heels and earrings. And when the other boys made fun of him, he would boldly tease them right back by flirting with them.

That may have been what got him killed.

On Feb. 12, another student, Brandon McInerney, 14, shot him twice in the head at the back of the computer lab at their junior high school, police say.

(visit the link for the full news article)

When i first saw the title i immediately thought it was a hate crime, however, upon reading the child used to 'bully' back by flirting and chasing them. I thought that this is further from a student being killed because they are gay but closer to being killed because they were a bully.

I guess a question to ask would be whether or not a bullied student can in turn be a bully, as a teacher i can definitely say yes they can. In some cases the bullies getting 'bullied' are far less capable of dealing with it. I do think this student took it too far when students are taught to (verbally) stand up to bullies.

Nevertheless this is a terrible incident which gay activists have already got involved where i feel they may not need to. Why does anything involving minorities turn into hate crimes?

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by SilentShadow


Silent, interesting tack you are taking on the question...

In your capacity as a teacher, you must see many examples of bullying.

If this had been a boy of a different race, maybe with a hairstyle that somehow offended another boy, and he reacted to a bully by bullying back...is that any different?

Let's say the first boy was overweight, bullied his 'bullier' with an insult to his mother, thus enraging him, and causing him to commit murder?

I am sure many examples exist of similar patterns, usually resulting in physical fights, a few cuts and/or bruises?

I think it's important to step back and examine, not just the exact details of this case, but the overall story...an Eighth-Grader committed pre-meditated murder, with a handgun. Factor out the flamboyance of Larry King, his gender identity issues, and please don't suggest that the victim somehow 'deserved' it...I don't think that was your point, but it kinda came accross that way. Hope I got it wrong, there.

Seems that, after many well-publicized school shootings, I hate to say it, but the motives usually aren't clear-cut since the perps die, usually self-inflicted. In this case, we have a targeted, heinous crime that is a tragedy for all involved.

'Hate' crime? Hate comes in many forms...this will play out, and will llikely not end well for anyone.....

wel its the parents fault to blame. the kid shouldnt have even had a gun!

so.............how did he exactly get the gun. hmmm now hes going to jail.

It does make me wonder who exactly bullied who. But in any case no one deserves to die over what middle schoolers say and do to each other. I say that McInerney should be tried for murder, nothing more nothing less. Personally I don't think that the sexuality of the victim should come into play, I say that killing a gay person is the same as killing a straight person. We're all humans, nothing more, nothing less.

Sounds like the kid was a total fruitloop.

Disturbing story all around.

yeah,not really sure what to say about this one. Very odd little turn of events. I can understand the reason the gay kid reacted the way he did to bullies. It's a form of self defence,which ultimatly cost him his life.

The bigger issue here as has been mentioned,is who the hell gave a child a gun. They should also be tried for aiding and abetting or something.

Wrong wrong wrong and wrong some more...

Why did a 14 year old have a gun.

Why is a 14 wearing high heels and make up to school.

Where's the discipline people?

How the hell has it been allowed to escalate to the level of someone being killed?

As a teacher I know that kids can be cruel, and I know that they generally have a pack mentality and will "bully" the odd one out, the fat kid, the gay kid, the overly shy kid, the whatever you get my drift... Did no one see the problems that were occurring here?

Then again you don't expect 14/15 year old kids to shoot each other, but maybe you should.

Sad world that we live in.

MonKey

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SilentShadow

 

Factor out the flamboyance of Larry King, his gender identity issues, and please don't suggest that the victim somehow 'deserved' it...I don't think that was your point, but it kinda came accross that way. Hope I got it wrong, there.

In NO way did i mean that, and i hope noone else thinks that is what i was referring to, what i was trying to get across is that this terrible act is being masked by a gay hate crime, when that is not why i believe this atrocious act was committed.

I in NO WAY believe he deserved it, even factoring in the bullying i still believe he was still a victim prior to the deplorable act being committed.

Well wether it was a gay hate crime or not, the National Day of Silence is being held in his memory this year.

Hopefully that will help bring tolerance and understanding to this situation, and hopefully it won't happen again.



[edit on 063131p://30u34 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by ChiKeyMonKey
Why is a 14 wearing high heels and make up to school.

Eh? what's wrong with that? That's 8th or 9th grade right?

I would be more concerned about the fact eleven year olds are wearing thongs now.

Any murder is despicable and condemnable.

I dont see why this should be touted in the main stream media just because the victim was gay.

Let the law deal with the offender as the law books state...

Originally posted by SilentShadow

upon reading the child used to 'bully' back by flirting and chasing them.

Not sure how I see why that's bullying. Back when I was a kid it was pushing and punching and name calling.

I thought that this is further from a student being killed because they are gay but closer to being killed because they were a bully.

No.

Come on. Bullying goes on all the time at school. Every school. Especially the earlier schools. Bullying is expected, it's a normal social dynamic.

This kid got shot because someone wasn't raised properly and had access to a gun. Period.

You're puting blame on the victim by saying that, and you shouldn't in this case.

I guess a question to ask would be whether or not a bullied student can in turn be a bully, as a teacher i can definitely say yes they can.

Not sure if I am following your question exactly. Can you paraphrase?

In some cases the bullies getting 'bullied' are far less capable of dealing with it.

So what's your suggestion? Kids should just take all the bullying they can get and never verbally stand up to the bullies cuz it might hurt the bullies feelings? I am not following..

Nevertheless this is a terrible incident which gay activists have already got involved where i feel they may not need to. Why does anything involving minorities turn into hate crimes?

That's a good question. Why is that? I dunno. That's the nature of hate crimes usually... they target minorities..

If the kids say they shot him because he was 'flirting' and such, that would suggest they didn't like that he was acting gay to them. Right? I am not saying this is indeed a gay hate crime. But that's some evidence for the idea.

If the kids felt uncomfortable with this kids 'retaliation' to their bullying, then there was plenty of other ways to deal with it, other then shooting him dead.

[edit on 073131p://30u02 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

I dont see why this should be touted in the main stream media just because the victim was gay.

Gay aside. This was a kid that got murdered by a fellow student. That's usually mainsteam media isn't it?

Look up info on the NDOS event. Has some interesting info for why they want lots of people to know about this case and others.

The media are categorising this as a "muder of a gay kid".

Im just saying, the should just present the fact that "one kid shot his classmate", and if they had to elaborate further on the cause (that the victim was gay), then they should do that in the article instead of the headlines.

What I was really saying is that all crimes are despicable. Just because the victim was gay/minority doesnt make it worse, thats subsidiary information.

I completely agree with everything you just said. This is why I dislike most mediastreams

I get almost all my news from random online sources, and try to cross reference as much as possible. Hard to escape this style of dramatizing and sensationalism though..

**edited to add: one reason the NDOS is being pushed though is because there was surveys conducted that showed an alarmingly high statistics that gay/bi/trans students were bullied for those reasons. Many felt scared enough to the point they sometimes felt they had to ditch out of concern for their saftey. Since there is a chance this kid was killed for those reasons, the organization responsible for NDOS is using this incident to help bring light to those statistics... the the other gay students. In hopes of preventing this from happening again.

Maybe it's sensationalism, but I think people need to be reached somehow..

[edit on 073131p://30u53 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


It appears as though somehow you have COMPLETELY misinterpreted me. I am going to answer your first question with it's own post as it is something that i feel needs to be highlighted on its own as it disgusts me the lack of knowledge that our society has on this subject.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Not sure how I see why that's bullying. Back when I was a kid it was pushing and punching and name calling.

Sexual harassment is not a form of bullying?

I am a school teacher, please don't tell me that pushing, punching and name calling is the only way to bully. I do hope by reading this next bit it can open you eyes a little to what some poor children have to endure at school. The is SO much information i am going to have to keep it very short.

You only mentioned 3 forms of Physical bullying, there are ALOT more that i am sure if you can think of such as theft and property damage.

Then the forms of emotional bullying such as verbal bullying by teasing, calling names, whispering and spreading rumours. Non-verbal bullying is the types of behaviours that upset, exclude or embarrass another person. Things like making rude faces and writing bad notes about a person that upsets them.

Social Bullying involves Physical and emotional bullying by instead of individuals, entire groups are inflicting the student. Often this has much higher consequences on the poor student. Included in social bullying is bullying by exclusion which is not letting someone play with them, teasing, whispering and telling stories about them behind their back.

Now you mention that back in school all you may have had to endure is punching, pushing and name calling. Factor in everything i have mentioned with the new form of bullying called cyber bullying. Something i have heard parents scoff at, this is something NO ONE except students in THIS ERA understand, even teacher are powerless to stop this and parents act like it doesn't exist because it never did in their era and even mine, and i am only 23.

Cyber bullying is a terrible, terrible form of bullying and in this day in age with internet, email, instant messengers and mobile phones. Children used to be able to escape bullying in the haven or safety of home, however, in our modern age, children have the potential to be bullied 24hours a day, 7 days a week.

24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK. Children can be exposed to social ridicule and bullying. Do not tell me that punching and calling names is the only form of bullying.

Originally posted by Lucid LunacyCome on. Bullying goes on all the time at school. Every school. Especially the earlier schools. Bullying is expected, it's a normal social dynamic.

As you can tell this subject is very touchy for me and i have no idea how to deal with this comment with civility, however, i cannot leave it alone.

Bullying is NOT ACCEPTABLE, in any form, at any age in ANY place. You wonder why kids flip out, steal daddies gun and kill everyone? Because NO-ONE understands what it is like to deal with growing up in this era, NO-ONE can help them because people like you think that what they have to deal with is normal.

Live with 24/7 bullying and tell me it is an "expected NORMAL social dynamic."

Oh and to put this ALL in context. I was a bully at school. I grew up, became a teacher and because of my past have a heightened awareness to it within a school environment.

I don't care if this guy was gay or not. But common sense guys. you don't go to school dressed up like that. I know he shouldn't have gotten killed over it, but someone should have told him to stop dressing like that. Schools have dress codes.

I'm gay. And I don't think the victim was entirely blameless either.

By all accounts he was as camp as Christmas & spent much of his time coming onto straight guys. That's just asking for trouble. For his own sake his family, friends & the school authorities should've told him to tone down the act ... and pulled him from school had he not complied.

End of the day it's his own fault he's dead.

I'm genuinely surprised how little sympathy I have for him. Perhaps I'm getting tired of all the little ten a penny Queens who inhabit the gay scene, some of whom you'd just never tire of punching the crap out of.

Originally posted by Niall197
I'm gay. And I don't think the victim was entirely blameless either.

I gave you a star for being politically incorrect. What you said was so true.