To accommodate Muslim students, Harvard tries women-only gym hours

I'm a non muslim woman and I stopped going to a coed gym because of all the looks we get while working out. I swear the gym has the biggest perves.

If you assume all 'perves' are heterosexual males. Men aren't the only once gawking at the opposite gender in gyms. There have been many instances (in the gym at Ohio State) that women have made me feel uncomfortable. Men aren't the only ones capable of inappropriate staring. Both men and women can be perverts, something many forget.

To think that only men are perves and women are not is false. Men are just more out in the open about it in our society.

I think the University needs to accommodate both men and womens needs in the gym, and not just one side. Maybe I will then return this bowflex and go back..... maybe not.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Of course if a bunch of men in that university wanted that, then they would arrange it.

It's not about what's fair or not, or demands etc. It's simply a group of people asking for an arrangement that got accepted.

If men want their own seperate gym, then I'm sure they could make an arrangement, why not? But I don't think the majority of men care for that thou.

LOL, oh how I love it!

There are literally countless posts on this site that attempt to tear Christianity apart, attacking not only the faith but also the faithful. Wasn't there a post a few days ago even questioning whethere Jesus Christ was an actual person, never mind divine or not? And here is a prime example of secular society being bent towards the will of a religious minority, and there is barely a whisper of objection! Terrific, lol!

Harvard's policy is abhorrent. To claim that certain gym hours are to be reserved for Muslim women, and hence that are men are expelled from the gym for these hours, is blatantly discriminatory. What is the logic behind this policy? That somehow, non-muslim men cannot control themselves around these women? So in order to apease this group of women, men must be forbidden from using general-use facilities? How does that work out? Doesn't the tuition paid by men go to support these gyms as well? If muslim women are allowed to determine the policies of Harvard, what of other religious groups? I'm certain the Catholics would appreciate a number of concessions, as would the multitude of other religions that are represented on campus.

Regardless, as stated above, I find it amazing that the collective response of those who posted prior to me to have been "good for them". Honestly, this seems to support my pet theory that liberals are more than happy to kowtow and respect beliefs that are non-mainstream American, but God help you if you're a Christian.

Buddhists? ok. Muslim? ok. Shinto? ok. Wiccan? Ok..

Protestant? Go to hell with your make believe nonsense!

What happened to the collective backbone of the assembled here at ATS? Perhaps its wondered off into the fourth dimension with Steve Fosset...

As to accomodating Muslims......get used to it.

You are entering an era where Christianity and Islam will merge into the new power structure of a severe Fascist Religion with strictest obedience.
Stonings and burnings will be accepted. YOu will have no choice. Mindless sadism in all areas of life are obvious.

Look around you. Legal torture, the patriot act and all such subsequent draconian laws. Hate crime/thought crime laws. Laws that allow the "State" to take your property for what it deems to be violations of its laws. Mandatory vaccinations etc.

You start out small, then you find a stones throw away that you're left with absolutely nothing.

Hate to bust people's buble but Even Men look at Men and manly women look women too. Not that much of a big deal and it has not risen in number it's just more known and people are aware of same sex attractions these days as being a possible link.
It's up to the university let them deal with it.

This thread is fast becoming a shining example of selective reading and willful ignorance.

However, props to jsobecky for maintaining open-mindedness on this

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


And your and example of someone that hates this JUST because they are muslim.

It was a peaceful mature ARRANGEMENT. What the hell is wrong with that?

People make arrangements to have their kids birthday party at mcdonalds. Whats the problem?

There is nothing wrong here. So maybe you should chill out with your hatred. Hatred like that is not good for you.

[edit on 29-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

I dont see anything wrong with this.

Many women, not just Muslim women, are uncomfortable working out in front of men.

I went with my sister to her gym one day, some local gym, there was one huge coed room, and a small room next to it only for women. There is no way I can excercise when I'm being oogled by a bunch of men.

I mean, isnt it true that men think about sex every 2 minutes or every 5 minutes or so, I think there was a study done on this.

The college should say they are doing this for all women who are uncomfortable working out in front of men and not emphasize the Muslim part.

reply to post by worldwatcher


If you're anything like your avatar, I'd certainly stare at you all the time in a gym.

Okay, I read all of this and now here's my bit...

I find that most woman who complain of being "ogled at the gym" are the type of woman who WISH they were ogled at the gym. I'm not saying some men don't stare, but we are looking at the pretty ones, and they generally appreciate that. I know this because I've dated enough woman who have told me so.

Secondly, I was all for accepting this option, and then thought, HEY!!!!!! Maybe if it just said women's hours, I would be okay with it. But the muslim angle? seriously, that is so weak. And don't compare it to the choir. One need not be a christian to join the choir.(and I know you don't have to be muslim, just using someone else's argument.) I hate that so many of you are willing to kowtow to this liberal nonsense.
So, the SAME PEOPLE who want me to get used to the idea of tranny's in my bathroom, as well as gay people in my shower, and unisex public restrooms. You don't give a flying turd about my comfort there. I am all for women's hours. Not cool with the Muslim angle.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Welcome to America, land of patronizing laws for women. They might not be allowed the right to control their own bodies, but we can sure make it law that men must hold doors for them or something.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist

 

And your and example of someone that hates this JUST because they are muslim.

It was a peaceful mature ARRANGEMENT. What the hell is wrong with that?

People make arrangements to have their kids birthday party at mcdonalds. Whats the problem?

Actually, I don't hate this. I disagree with it, in the extreme. To make special accomodations merely on the basis of religion is blatant discrimination. These women were accomodated BECAUSE they were muslim. How can this be read in any other way than Harvard administrators endorsing the muslim faith? Those men who would otherwise be allowed to use facilities that they, in part, pay for are now turned away because a few muslim women cannot deal with having them around. In what twisted world is that fair?

As for my opinion of the islamic faith, and muslims in general, that's completely irrelevant. Perhaps if I were making the argument that Christian students should be appeased, while muslim students should not, it would matter. That wasn't my argument at all, however. I am against ANY group receiving special consideration on the basis of their religion alone.


Remind me again, was it just separation of Church and state, or also of mosque and state?

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist

Originally posted by BloodthirstyCapitalist
Harvard's policy is abhorrent. To claim that certain gym hours are to be reserved for Muslim women, and hence that are men are expelled from the gym for these hours, is blatantly discriminatory. What is the logic behind this policy?

Perhaps your logic fails because your basic premise is inaccurate. Trying to construct an argument based upon faulty premises always results in disappointment.

Re-read the source article. Then go back and look at your above paragraph until you see where you made your error. Then you will see that Harvard's decision was not based upon religion (hint hint).

Originally posted by jsobecky
Re-read the source article. Then go back and look at your above paragraph until you see where you made your error. Then you will see that Harvard's decision was not based upon religion (hint hint).

Hmm, let's see, sentence #1:
"Harvard University has moved to make Muslim women more comfortable in the gym by instituting women-only access times six hours a week to accommodate religious customs that make it difficult for some students to work out in the presence of men"

And of course "...members of the Harvard Islamic Society and the Harvard Women's Center petitioned the university for a more comfortable environment for women."

Well, I can tell that the fact that the women were muslim had absolutely nothing to do with the University setting up hours for women only. Except for the fact that muslim women were apparently invovled in initiating the discriminatory policy, and that it was done to, quote, " accomodate religious customs ".

Perhaps instead of trying to be condescending in your replies, and assign other people homework, you could actually RESPOND to comments. Either that, or try not to make it blatantly obvious that you're ignorant of what the article you posted actually said. Then, you might not look like such a fool. (hint, hint)

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


The amazing thing is, Becky is usually foaming at the mouth about Muslims as much as you are right now.

It's an agreement reached by the university and a group of people who wanted it, and is open for all women on the campus. Now if there had been some sort of coercion involved, or if it were only for one particular group of women, that'd be something to look askance at.

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


It only seems that my response is condescending because you are not addressing my points.

Harvard's policy is abhorrent. To claim that certain gym hours are to be reserved for Muslim women, and hence that are men are expelled from the gym for these hours, is blatantly discriminatory. What is the logic behind this policy?

Those were your words, which I asked you to examine.

Where in the article did it state that certain gym hours were to be reserved for Muslim women?

Yet you re-stated the article as a reply. Then you again erred when you said

Either that, or try not to make it blatantly obvious that you're ignorant of what the article you posted actually said. Then, you might not look like such a fool. (hint, hint)

I can't make it much clearer. You misspoke, then based your argument on it. I called you on it. See how easy that was?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
The amazing thing is, Becky is usually foaming at the mouth about Muslims as much as you are right now.

That shows a) how little you know of my views, and b) your ignorance.

And the username is jsobecky. Or jso, if you choose.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
The amazing thing is, Becky is usually foaming at the mouth about Muslims as much as you are right now.

That shows a) how little you know of my views, and b) your ignorance.

And the username is jsobecky. Or jso, if you choose.

If you say so. I know what I read. Well, however it goes, I still give you props for expressing rationality on this thread.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Fox, I hope you know I was joking when I said I hate you. If I hated you, I would have ignored you, not called you a respected foe. But I have to know where you got your sig. I love it, and the pic sells it.

As for this thread, I again point out: The article is the one that admitted the Muslim slant. I have no problem with the separate hours for women If they (women ) feel like they need that, I am okay with that. Just give me the same amount of hours for men! Thank you very much indeed. I point out once again, that If I ask for my comfort to be addressed, I am pointed towards separation of C and S, but in this case, not so much. And again, it was the article that presented it as a service to the muslim women, and all women were included in the benefit. Kill the muslim angle, and give men the same amount of hours. Sounds fair at that point. -Jason

Doesn't anyone see how this press release is just to get publicity for this action. Look at it this way, the school sees a problem where Muslim women, self conscious women, emotionally abused women and other overlooked members of the student population weren't using the facilities because of the male population.

So, they give the gym 6 hours a week (I usually sleep more than that in a night). And, to get the word out to a huge population of students, rather than aim at the small percentage who would care if this was aimed at the overweight or the likely smaller population that would care about emotionally traumatized women, they run the religion angle. It's guaranteed to make it to the newspapers, and more students who would have otherwise missed it get to see it at 6 and 11.

It's a great idea if you ask me.