New Abu Ghraib Images (WARNING: very disturbing)

Ok so you JUSTIFIED it . Same thing . semantics .

I need lines.
So i add this text .

Well I pretty much don't care anyways. The U.S. and the American people fought dirty during WWII against Japan, Italy, and Germany killing all those women and children to win. TO WIN!! You want to fight a civilized war. Thats fine with me. We lost our morals long time ago I guess. Can't regain it. No such thing. Zip. Nadda.

ENOUGH. Keep to the topic and don't trash each other.

That is not democracy and it's not our way, they are becoming like the Roman tourchers and have lost their way. I expect the old Iraq regime to have done this, it's not our right to copy it. It also seems like the evil that infested Iraq has spread onto new people, it has even spread to the UK with how it compromises our own freedoms.

It seems like a cloud of Evil has got a new Host to manipulate with.

reply to post by ironman433


your ad absurdum argument is simply absurd.
there is no excuse for evil, and EVIL is what we're discussing. evil AMERICAN jailers.

you seem to think that everyone who is against the war is upper middle class, or something. a large portion of america is no different than a third world country, except for perhaps more cars and guns being available to even the poor.

you simply have NO IDEA about how the world really works, or you would be locking and loading on the whitehouse lawn, or perhaps, if you REALLY studied, in front of the CFR headquarters or the federal reserve.

and another thing.

the armed forces BRAINWASH people. it's the first thing they do when you join. as far as the "bleeding heart liberals" are concerned, you are the victim of a taken over brain, and 'your' opinion is really just what you've been told to think and say by the evil overlords.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by billybob]

Originally posted by deltaboy
Well I pretty much don't care anyways. The U.S. and the American people fought dirty during WWII against Japan, Italy, and Germany killing all those women and children to win. TO WIN!! You want to fight a civilized war. Thats fine with me. We lost our morals long time ago I guess. Can't regain it. No such thing. Zip. Nadda.

That tells us a lot about you.

[And yes if your a solder in or were in iraq in this war . I hope you wake up every night with those poor children's faces in your mind. PTS disorder is too good for you lot.]

That was a very rediculous and callous statement you just made. Do you honestly believe that the American soldiers and our allies are over there dragging innocent people into the streets and killing them ? If so then you are very much misinformed. Please tell me that you are not American. We are not in the business of murdering off innocents. The people attacking us are not innocents defending their homes. These are cowards hiding behind the innocent people that live there.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

That tells us a lot about you.

No that tells alot about us when you face the reality.

reply to post by Christian Voice


it is well documented that innocents are being murdered in their sleep, and yes, dragged into the streets and murdered.

i'm sure war is nasty, and all that, but a GOOD CHRISTIAN will die before he takes an innocent life.

you ever listen to some of the interviews with soldiers in iraq? there are some pretty gung ho undiscerning murderers who really revel in their 'work' over there.

What ! There are no documented cases of US soldiers waking innocent people up and dragging them to the streets and murdering them. There have been isolated incidents of soldiers committing rape and murder and those soldiers have been dealt with harshly. The American soldiers as a whole are there to help the people. Where do you people get your warped information ? During Vietnam Jane Fonda showed her true colors and reported false information to the press about how US prisoners were being treated. There are always gonna be people lying to push their agendas. Don't make up stories about the soldiers that are putting their lives on the line to help Iraq gain their freedom.

Obviously, War is a dirty business. Humans are capable of unspeakable depravity in circumstances that most of us could never possibly understand. However, the same kind of conditions can occur in other environments where there is a lack of moral supervision. 'Lord of the Flies' is a good analogy, though sadly there are countless real examples to draw upon.

If unchecked, the simple act of a chief riot guard laughing to his men over a woman being shot in the head with a 'rubber bullet' reinforces the action, encourages it and will lead to something worse.

Iran was not at war when those pictures were taken. However, if we feel able to comment then we might say that if there is any moral supervision in such places, then those morals do not match ours.

I would suggest that before we take the 'high ground' we should always consider whether our house is in fact made of glass.

Ironman is kind of right, but if you want to change the world, first change yourself.

Best regards

Myrdyn

It's a shame the Army has no basis in faith, they can not mix it with being a soldier, a Christian Soldier do they exist? I have seen them pray but I guess the extreme soldiers who do not have faith probably behave more evil, because if they did they would not be like this. I read that some Armies are banning the word Jesus or even prayer. I hope the good soldiers who care don't get labelled in this way like the action the soldiers have done in the video montage.

This is sick. Torture is rightly a violation against human rights.

It scares me to think that people don't understand how if you institutionalise something like torture for ANY reason it will spread. Once it is ok in any one circumstance it is very easy to rationalise it going further. I would hate to live in a country that tortured people.

reply to post by Shere Khaan


I would agree. Some would consider it far better to take them somewhere else to be tortured.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

That tells us a lot about you.

No that tells alot about us when you face the reality.

Yes I agree.

There are positive beautiful things in the world too remember. Most are not in war thou .

[edit on 28-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

You in the U.S.A. have become the very thing you hate.

Trying to disassociate yourselves from the actions of your own citizens and government no longer works. You are all accountable. Your nation, proud and arrogant as it is, must find a road to redemption or you will find yourselves and your nation on the ash-heap of history.

Obviously, the Nazi strategy found its foothold in the USA, took root, and has come to full poisonous blossom through the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Bush presidencies. It is time for you US Americans to uproot the flowering of evil in your midst.

After the revelation of Abu Ghraib alone, there are so many things you ought to have done that the mind boggles that you as a nation did nothing but scapegoat one sad woman in uniform. Pathetic.

Your Secretary of Defense should have been forced to resign then. And for the sheer shame of it all, descending as it did from the policies at the top, your Vice-President should have been forced to resign, and your President should have been forced to resign.

But after 9/11 you gave carte blanche to your rage in the hands of the Bush government.

When Abu Ghraib was revealed, you should have protested in the streets. You should have protested and marched in Washington, D.C. until that city and your government ground to a hault until the government itself was forced to face a Judgement Day at the hands of the People of the U.S.A. But that didn't happen. The prisoners at Abu Ghraib weren't real people after all ... they were Muslims, Iraqis after all. Who could expect you to treat them with human decency...

It is difficult for a nation built on rugged individualism to accept the idea of national culpability and corporate responsibility. I can understand rationalising events as the fault of someone else, the sin of others rather than your own national sin. You still have not come to terms with your crimes against humanity in the use of nuclear bombs in Japan. You continue to justify the decisions you take by claiming either that you had to get dirty to fight "evildoers" or that you were not guilty of any crime for all is fair in war and mayhem. You have never accepted your national guilt for the indiscriminate murder of the innocent through weapons of mass destruction. You want to believe that your nation was, on balance, still not as evil as those you fought. Yet it is only you U.S. Americans who have used the worst weapons known to humanity against civilians and innocent children.

Now you have embraced the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive warfare and continue to engage in the most reprehensible occupation of a nation based on completely false pretenses. There is no shame in you. There is no revulsion at what you are doing or what you have done. And as far as most of you are concerned the rest of the world can just go screw itself.

All that being said, nonetheless, there is a road to redemption available to the USA, but it does not come by any facile means. You must arrest and try in a court of law those who have taken your country so far off the path of its destiny. You must march, and scream, and shout until you bring down the whole edifice of deceit, wars, and lies. You must rediscover your Constitution and live it. You must cease and desist from these pretensions of Empire and the embracing of the same doctrines and ideas that fueled the military interventionism of the Third Reich. You must not be afraid to admit to yourselves as a nation that you have failed to live up to the promise of your Founders and your own claims.

Do I expect such repentance and reformation to take place in the USA? No, I do not. But I do think that a time will come when you will be forced to refashion your nation, but it will only come after the Yakuza, the militant Muslims, the Russians, the Chinese and a host of others are finally done with you. While you were sleeping, they have been buying up your country from underneath you. They have planted their agents among you crossing over borders rendered useless because of the lofty dreams of the New World Order and the globalists who work to undermine you in every way. Those abroad are ready to watch you self-destruct, and they will help you along that path any way they can. They are ready to help the New World Order kill your currency. They want to see you panic, suffer, and starve. I fear they will see all of that and more unless you U.S. Americans turn from the path the Bushes and Clinton have taken you down and return to that Constitutional path that made you the envy of all the nations.

If you would just live your own Constitution, even without any apology for anything, the world and your nation would be a far safer place.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I know 3 people were water-boarded. I'm on the fence about water-boarding if it saves American lives.

You don't 'know' anything, dude. None of us do. The government throws a couple bones at the media, and we think we 'know' what's going on. What a joke.

More people have been tortured, humiliated, waterboarded etc. than we will ever know.

One of the major things dividing this country right now is that half of us are fully aware that atrocities are kept from us, and the other half honestly believes what the media says is the whole picture etc.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Don't make up stories about the soldiers that are putting their lives on the line to help Iraq gain their freedom.

What freedom?

Some soldiers don't know what they are really there for. The goverment uses them, they use these people lives for their hidden agendas.

These pics were pretty sick...And I dont have the discernment whether they are all real. However..my forebears were no stranger to Point Lookout,Maryland.It isnt surprising at all what people will do under the protection of Big Brother.Its obvious the victims are not from my country.DEATH...in my country..is better than subjugation or humiliation.I'll do neither without a "soft spoken" word".......

Originally posted by Silenceisall
I'm amazed by the tenacity of the pro-torture camp on ATS, and frankly this exchange is making me feel a little sick. I'm out.

Don't worry, it's always the same people. Pro-war, pro-torture, pro-military.

There's nothing wrong with being 'pro-military' but when they allow their allegiance to the government to override their sense of common decency and logic: that's when they are no longer worth listening to.

Just more mind-controlled puppets spouting the same empty propoganda we've all heard a thousand times. "Those prisoners deserve what they get. War is hell. Support our troops. I served so I must support this illegal war etc."

It's tiresome. Easier to just click the ignore button under their names sometimes.