The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

Originally posted by Waylon

Why would you need to tip off the FBI, if we are the FBI?

Humor Waylon, humor.

Can't be serious all the time

Originally posted by neformore
You see, Anon operates in the background. Its not out in the open by its very nature. That makes it the essence of a conspiracy theory.

There seems to be some confusion here. There is nothing closed or secret about Anonymous, aside perhaps from the ordinary custom of not giving one's own private details away on-line. One of the things that you will note is that people at least from English-speaking anonymous discussion boards will sometimes avoid advertising them elsewhere, even to the point that there are supposed 'rules' about this, but that isn't really something to be taken seriously.

As noted in the earlier-linked Wikipedia article, 2channel is perhaps the largest discussion forum in the world, and also the largest anonymous discussion forum. It has a very large capacity. Anonymous discussion sites in Japan are clearly dominated by a few large players of this sort.

English-speaking anonymous discussion sites, on the other hand, are usually small, and do not have the resources to handle a large influx of people; on the other hand, there are a large number of these sites (at least several dozen). Advertising any given one of these to a large number of people is generally bad for the site, both due to limited capacity and because most people are not familiar with the way that these sites work (e.g., anonymous posting, sage/age, and other points mentioned in the 2channel article).

Hence, advertising any one of these sites widely is generally considered somewhat rude. But this should not really be considered as secrecy, because it is not. The primary anonymous discussion sites used by the Chanology project were at one time posted on a page linked from both the Economist and another major paper (I think the Telegraph) in their online editions. This is quite open, really.

Originally posted by anonim
Where exactly did he threaten you? O_o For someone who fancies himself a "thinking man," you sure seem to... see things that aren't there.

That's the point of the 'General Conspiracy Discussion' board; and, I daresay, ATS as a whole. If every post was backed up by hard evidence, 90% of the threads would've never existed.

Its a fact of life that - no matter how noble someones intentions may be - someone will always be suspicious of them. ATS is not responsible for peoples thoughts on such issues - thats down to the individual posters to debate for themselves. ATS is a conduit. The T&C's get applied as evenly as they can be. Bear in mind that the mods here are only human.

On any other forum in the world we would expect such... I'm sorry hypocricy is something i can't stand.

What you seem to be suggesting is that the thread should have been closed at its inception before the debate started because it might upset anon.

No I don't at all. I love open debate and the promise of such is what has bought us here. But the hypocricy has been to much to bear. All i'm asking is that where people have stated the anooony are terisists that they be warned in the future as part of the debate because in arguments this is known as conjecture and any intelligent person would refute such claims without evidence. Its the same tatics that george bush uses and the potential for the patriot act to be abused. And here it is being used as such... Sometimes you become the demon you are running from hey?


I know i have had posts stricken off this board and also my profile removed for absolutly doing a lot less.

What is unfair is suggesting that ATS has an agenda on this issue. It most certainly does not. The Amigo's own the site and everyone else volunteers their time because they believe in what the board stands for.

No it doesn't, and i cant recal such a suggestion unless used in paradoy to prove a point. (ie, why attack a group on baseless claimes RE: the original argument in this post)
To all of us outside a very funny point.

What I would suggest will get me kicked off from the board again so i won't say it. But if you agree to let me post it without it getting removed i will. But i tell you as a group you will get the exact same treatment you have afforded anonymous. If you can't see the double bind in what i'm reffering too then you are insular by defult.



[edit on 26/0208/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by freight tomsen

Originally posted by anonim

Please, explain to me how this is a witch-hunt.

Because you claim to be helping bring criminals to justice, but all you're really doing is targeting a silly, fringe religion, that was started by Mason/OTO/Pentagon insiders. You have to use this "Anonymous" internet strategy because you're almost all agents and can't get real flesh and blood people to go on the Scientology witch-hunt with you.

If you want to learn how to bring criminals to justice, go talk to a lawyer, get a case drawn up, stop trolling the net for disgruntled youth. Join free humanity in exposing your bosses.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by freight tomsen]

As individuals we expose evil.

For this we come together becuase this is real as compared to your consipacy theories.

We don't give a [...] what some looney conspirosist thinks.

I mean if we were FBI agents we would just close your boards in one second and any complaints reared their ugly heads say we found evidence that al qaeda ( I don't know how a search bot will go with that word) exists on these boards.

It's so funny that i'm sure these boards were started by the FBi to have a big laugh...

-------------------------
Removed profanity

please read from the T&C's

1b.) Profanity: You will not use profanity in our forums, and will neither post with language or content that is obscene, sexually oriented, or sexually suggestive nor link to sites that contain such content.









[edit on 26/2/08 by masqua]

Originally posted by Elija Black

Originally posted by anonim
Where exactly did he threaten you? O_o For someone who fancies himself a "thinking man," you sure seem to... see things that aren't there.

That's the point of the 'General Conspiracy Discussion' board; and, I daresay, ATS as a whole. If every post was backed up by hard evidence, 90% of the threads would've never existed.

True..

But to attack real people of a deluded fantasy is not cool. Escpecially when they have given tons of hard evidence. Most smart members on the boards have seen the truth and are investigating. And i'm not saying anyone should join the fight. Most people on these boards seem a bit timid for that kind of thing. Just don't attack the people that are doing good.

reply to post by confederacyforever



The premise of the original post is not that the genuine "anonymous members" are FBI agents. The premise is that the intelligence community is trying to track and watch the genuine members of "anonymous".

When you consider that anyone can appear to be part of "anonymous" it isn't much of a stretch to consider that intelligence agents could present themselves as members too. If the agents are good enough at their job they could conceivably get inside and get some good information to keep tabs on the activities of the group.

If they were very good at their jobs they could start a rumble about a big protest and see who shows up or who "spreads the word" (pathway tracking) and who comments about it (network surveillance).

FROM THIS POINT FORWARD

Please focus your contributions to this thread on the topics and issues associated with the theory that one or more intelligence agencies may be watching and cataloging the Anonymous attack on Scientology as a means to learn more.

If you would prefer to branch off and discuss the long-standing management style of AboveTopSecret.com... there are several existing threads, or you may start a new one that is identified as being inspired by the conversation begun here.


This is turning into a large thread, and it's important to stay on point for current and future participants. Any off-topic posts after this warning may be subject to removal.


Thank you for your cooperation.








Some existing threads for reference:

AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

Is ATS a government funded damage control outlet/COINTELPRO?

Courtesy is Mandatory

The censorship on ATS is strange at times...

There are dozens more similar threads, as newer members tend to echo similar complaints every 30 days or so.



[edit on 26-2-2008 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

 

 

FROM THIS POINT FORWARD

Please focus your contributions to this thread on the topics and issues associated with the theory that one or more intelligence agencies may be watching and cataloging the Anonymous attack on Scientology as a means to learn more.

If you would prefer to branch off and discuss the long-standing management style of AboveTopSecret.com... there are several existing threads, or you may start a new one that is identified as being inspired by the conversation begun here.


This is turning into a large thread, and it's important to stay on point for current and future participants. Any off-topic posts after this warning may be subject to removal.


Thank you for your cooperation.

 

 

The conclusion i have come to and I await any new information is thus:


The FBI has enough power at the moment not to have to use front groups like Anonymous. I think they may be generally interested but have more important things to do.

It is unlikely that the FBI would use such tactics and even more unlikely to have success. The FBI could easily track members of ATS as few are likely to use proxies and probably have signed up using their real email addresses. This would be traced by the FBI so easily. It is more likely that they would infiltrate ATS and spread rumours against their opponents without need for evidence.

on the other side of the coin you have a group with no central leadership, no joining criteria other than you have to be anonymous. As soon as you are are not anonymous then you are not anonymous. Anyone on these boards could be anonymous. Anonymous members can do what ever they like by their own concience. One member has no power over any other member.

The FBI can not trace any of it....

ATS on the other hand is totally tracable...

So to conclusion is not that ATS is being run or converted by FBI but rather by the propositions above:

1. ATS is more likely to be run/manipulated by the FBI than any anon group.

Now this proposition has been put forward and in relation to the original post and has not been refuted.

In fact members are saying that their posts have been censored becuase they have expressed that viewpoint. Moderators that claim to be "impartial" have joined towards sides of the discussion and it is obvious that for whatever reason they are not impartial.

Not to get off the point of the main subject though, we wouldn't want to do that for fear of more control.

So we are waiting for some intellect here and some intelligent responses.

Anyone who has gone through these boards would know that some interesting points were raised at the begining. Unfortunatly some members posted defamitory and completly off the subject responses. Escpecially in reference to other members. These posts were against board rules and were not removed.

Another point on this subject is that some anon points were removed because mods thought they were not perniant. But unfortunatly the mods are not knowlegable in this area enough to make such judgement. Some posts may seem not to have revelence but they indeed do.

I don't want to get of subject, but it is imposible to have rational discussions when these things are happening and until the mods can fix these problems and get off their holier than tho mentalities the problems will not go away.

When discussions turn into baseless attacks they go nowhere.

An* people have provided a response in the first few pages of this thread. If you want to get back to the original discussion then make statement pernient to these claims.

Otherwise expect the mirror and take it on the chin.

Originally posted by confederacyforever
So true Like this:

Interesting premise you have there. ATS allows you an avenue to voice your opinion and then you attack those that granted you that forum. Is this indicative of how you guys work? If so............. but I digress.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

You agree, then opt out when it doesn't suit you? Remind me to not go into business with you.

*Checks to see if wallet is still in pocket*

reply to post by intrepid


Kinda shooting yourself in the foot there. Aside from the fact that the entire post said that it was a joke, you make me wonder: If the censor isn't for the good of the members, who is it for?

On another note, the members drive the site. More visits = more ads being seen = more money for you guys. It's not like we just leech off your goodwill.

Firstly, thankyou for nor censoring this time. Maybe it was one of the other mods who censored me for pasting that image before. I mean sometimes humour is needed to show a point.

Interesting premise you have there. ATS allows you an avenue to voice your opinion and then you attack those that granted you that forum. Is this indicative of how you guys work? If so............. but I digress

.

That was not a premise. That was a mirror. Indicitive of the premise it quotes. Which is not a premise either. I hope you get my point though.

What part of this is difficult to understand?

I understand it all fully. And i have to say I agree. My comments are in respect.

the first admendment was written by some cool guys. Some say they belonged to a secret society but hey I say they fought for freedom and created a cool society and fought of controlling monarchs, but that's just my viewpoint. The very reason we can have the internet is because of these original thinkers. Lets not forget.

however, ARS has to remember the internet is also a global community, not just some piece of cut off cyber real estate. Google search bots go through your data so you also have to keep to the rules of the global community and moderate on their behalf.

Also as stated in the previous posts. There seems to be some hypocricy that is not being addressed in your own rules. For instance I was removed for writing about xenu and was removed by the mod for whatever reason i don't know. But no explaination was given. It certainly is not off topic. It is very pernient.


But i suggest rather than transgress further and keep to the topic, making sure all our wallets are there in our pockets and focus on the main claims made against the hypothesis of the original poster. And to do so in the future by making sure mods keep to their own rules .

Originally posted by confederacyforever

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Reply to post by confederacyforever

 

Where do we get our information? The rabbit hole is deeper than conversational hypnosis.. .the research that goes into pharmaceuticales...wish I had more timd...

That's it. Be careful to make a decision until you do research.

What exactly were you meaning with your response here, confed? We get our information from all over the place. We also have many different types of interpretations/personalities.

Scientology is just one branch from a tree of manipulation. The data mining I referred to earlier going on by the advertising industry, corporate interest and the government makes it a distinct possibility that the ball got started rolling on this movement of anonymous by someone who wasn't merely in it for the idealogy of anti-CoS.

Money.

Control.

Pharmaceutical companies go far and wide to synthesize the various chemicals that occur naturally in our bodies specifically to get a behavioural reaction. Those who are unaware of what a neurotransmitter is probably aren't going to wonder what that little pill is going to do to the ones at play in their persons. They just care about the....It's going to be better.

How much money does the biggest Pharm. Corp. make?

Alot more than Scientology. Without derailing further, Money begets Control and Power. To point the finger at a deserved entity that takes up a very small portion of the world, physical and financial is missing the bigger picture. Hell, if I wanted to really hurt CoS, I would look into how they hack minds...not computers. Hypnosis....why isn't there more of a focus there? That's the secret, that's the reason why they can bilk so many people and they are not the only ones doing it.

MK-Ultra was real. Released documents prove it. And it was very much about studying the possibility/effects of Rapid Induction Hypnosis as well as '___'. Many sub projects in that one.

By decidely disconnected points are these:

1) Anonymous could very well have been bourne for the information gathering.

How would a cyber group maneuvar in a virtual environment?

Do you think the military or some other government association never thought about it? It's what they do every day. For money. For Social positioning. Many of them live only for that type of war game scenario....

2) There are many bigger things....I ran across a story where a Pharm. Corp. had to actually promote and increase awareness of a rare and possibily psychosomatic mental affliction so that they could then state that they already had a cure and could sell it.....kinda bass ackwards, isn't it?


You know what I think? I think that Scientology was chosen because they are an arrogant group of people. I think that irks people on the playing field(corporate/government) more than it did a group of people who kind of needed a brand new '10 minute hate'.

Not saying you personally confed....

What exactly were you meaning with your response here, confed? We get our information from all over the place. We also have many different types of interpretations/personalities.

Scientology is just one branch from a tree of manipulation. The data mining I referred to earlier going on by the advertising industry, corporate interest and the government makes it a distinct possibility that the ball got started rolling on this movement of anonymous by someone who wasn't merely in it for the idealogy of anti-CoS.

By the way that was a mispost on my behalf because i didn't get the communication properly. I'm sorry. You raise good points.

Its a possibility, you are correct in that aspect. We cannot know for certain. Neither can we know that it was started by xenu and the marcab confederacy. As you can see by my name i have affiliations with that.

It is possible that pharm industry started or would at least enjoy attack on CO$ because they beleive all illness is in the mind. The health board in the 1950's attempted to warn the public over scientology and scientology have been at war with the "psyches" ever since.

Why i am asking for people to research a little more is that CO$ spends millions (perhaps billions) a year in the data mining that you speak of. So they run ads and have many front groups like "the citizens commision on human rights" that have massive publicity machines that promote this stuff. It's very subtle but watchdogs are on it and some great evidence is out there. You have to look in other corners.

CO$ beleives that all illness comes from enegrams. As you go further up the CO$ "bridge" you find out these enegrams were inmplanted by an Xenu who lives in the next galaxy over. About a trillion years ago xenu rounded up all the criminal population and brought them to earth and put them into volcanos (the first wall of fire) and then had their souls caught in soul catchers and had then planted with false memories (enegrams). So scientology is about "clearing" those enegrams. Some medical proffesionals dismissed it as quackery and some suggested Hubbard was paranoid pychizophrenic.

So Hubbard was saying that the world was controlled by aliens and we live in a prison planet. Who knows he may be true. Who knows? Maybe Jesus really did come on haley bop? (refference to Heavens Gate cult) However, it is in my humble opinion that he was a hack science fiction writer that took too much cocain (as stated by his son) and sought to delude members of lots of money. It is obvious and stated clearly by him that he definatly sought world domination and the scientology religion does so to this day.

So to get back to your point. I agree but think more research also needs to be done in areas where the conspirasy community has been infiltrated and supported by CO$. Areas that support a slow movement towrds the ridiculous in mental thought. A lot of dangerous cults support conspiracy theories because their leader are looking to take over society jsut like they do their own members. For example Jim Jones shot a sentator because he was delusional that the government was their to stop him. He then talked over 900 people into commiting suicide.

A lot of ex cult members who leave cults but don't get rid of the brainwashing still hold to crazy theories. And i would say a board like this has a lot of them. But that is a generalisation and personal opinion not really furthering the discussion at hand.

To be continued...

I think "Anon" partly being represented in this thread by someone who believes the founders of this country were "cool dueds" and supports slavery sums up this whole hypocritical, floundering failure of a bill-of-rights-denying upheaval of a slightly corrupt religion by lonely nerds.

Pharmaceutical companies go far and wide to synthesize the various chemicals that occur naturally in our bodies specifically to get a behavioural reaction. Those who are unaware of what a neurotransmitter is probably aren't going to wonder what that little pill is going to do to the ones at play in their persons. They just care about the....It's going to be better.

Totally agree.

How much money does the biggest Pharm. Corp. make?

yes... yes agreed.

MK-Ultra was real. Released documents prove it. And it was very much about studying the possibility/effects of Rapid Induction Hypnosis as well as '___'. Many sub projects in that one.

No refutation there. Although from memory it wasn't thousands of people. I think about what? several million human beings have gone through scientology hypnosis? These people were also hypnotised into making other beleive in their theories. This is large scale and now even Tom Cruise does it on TV.


By decidely disconnected points are these:

1) Anonymous could very well have been bourne for the information gathering.

Yes, they could be. So could Mary Poppins.

You know what I think? I think that Scientology was chosen because they are an arrogant group of people. I think that irks people on the playing field(corporate/government) more than it did a group of people who kind of needed a brand new '10 minute hate'.

well from the people i associate with and the one's i support, scientology has been chosen because it is very dangerous. Has no controls. and has a verifiable campaign to take over the world. Don't forget the most import crutial factor in the discussion on my behalf at this time is:

2. Scientology has systematically crushed all criticim from ex cult members through the largest litigation from a religous organization in the world. These ex-members got on the bandwagon when the 10 minute hate group erupted. Some of the 10 minute hate group members then went on to do research and became socialy concience as a result. These are people in the 10's and thousands.

www.youtube.com...

So from my perspective it was an organic movement, made much larger with spam taht evolved as a direct result of cults manipulation of members.

Is it so unreasonable to think people can be bonded over the rights for freedom?

This is why i say more research needs to be done because i seriously don't think people know to what extent this organization is evil

Not saying you personally confed....

Originally posted by rationalgaze
I think "Anon" partly being represented in this thread by someone who believes the founders of this country were "cool dueds" and supports slavery sums up this whole hypocritical, floundering failure of a bill-of-rights-denying upheaval of a slightly corrupt religion by lonely nerds.

Well the point is rather than trying to win something by defamation, these boards are supporting fully of the first admendment. So they are the rules. You heard the MOds, don't like it leave.

The man i was thinking about was not a supporter of slavery and the group i was talking about allowed African American membership in the 1800's well before other groups did so. They're influence helped abolish slavery and without them, you would be sitting in a country ruled by England and probably have a picture of the queen on your wall.

But this is transgressing from the notable points of the discussion at hand.

And i'm sure by their own ommision the mods will remove your post and warn you.

Somehow i think not.. mmm let me wonder why???

So how about tackling some of the refutations?

Reply to post by confederacyforever

Sorry...on the road again. Many valid points/confed. The engrams are an invented word...and the alien xenu thing, in my estimation, is a joke, even for the origanators. It has occurred to me that the point of order when actively manipulating someone is it doesn/t matter what they believe, anything will do. If the past experience was negative, than associate it with something ridiculous...easier to forget about it..ya know? Make people aware of the /hows and whys/ of their mental manipulations. Start a thread on the process of their mind control...that serves your cause and the quote/endquote tinfoils. Tomorrow I can be more concise...great points though...


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STAND DOWN ANONYMOUS!

The mudkips are in the cake.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by confederacyforever]