Sudden Surge in Public Shootings

reply to post by SkipShipman


SkipShipman, I'm sorry if I don't quit fully understand your post. Your saying the government is using ming control elements to get certain individuals to commit these murders? Or simple using the murders as reason to gain certain political advantages?

I do believe that the issue of gun control will be brought to the forefront if events like these keep occurring. However horrible these crimes are though, I don't believe access to firearms should ever be denied.

It seems another public massacre was minutes away from taking place at the super bowl. Luckily the gunman had a last minute change of heart and decided to turn himself in. Planned Super Bowl Massacre

I still think it's interesting that whenever situations like this arise in the 'States, a lot of Americans automatically (excuse the pun) assume that they're going to have their guns taken away. In all honesty, do you guys really think that owning a few guns will protect you from an overzealous government? If they moved into your neighborhood with a few tanks, bazookas, and other assorted armored killbots, what chances would you have? If they really wanted to, they could stop making ammo, or stop its importation, and there'd be no ammo left for the guns anyway, making them useless.

The self-defense argument holds some water, with so many illegal guns out on the streets. But if you were being held up, the other guy would see you reaching for your gun, and he'd just shoot you with his gun before you could get yours.

Maybe I don't get it

At the end of the day, a bunch of loons went out with guns and shot people. If it makes someone feel better that they will somehow be able protect themselves from their own government by owning one of these things, well, I'm glad I don't live there.

Andy, guns are not a big business here in the US ... most of the few companies that still exist only do so because of government contracts (and even then many law enforcement agencies and the military make more and more use of non US produced firearms) and the hunting market. The US firearms manufacturing business is nothing like what it was years ago, its practically extinct.

Originally posted by mattguy404
In all honesty, do you guys really think that owning a few guns will protect you from an overzealous government?

no, but it would give a much better example of the term "from my cold, dead hands."

Is it me or is there kind of a straight line down from Tinley Park, Missouri to Baton Rouge? Even in order from North to South. Feel free to flame, I know it's "out there". I'm just saying is all...

This has nothing to do with stress or personal problems and everything to do with

Mind Controll.

The Powers That Be are making a big excuse for gun confiscation prior to implimenting Martial Law.

Not just soldiers or police are coming for your gun, but the local gang members, who have been recruited for just that purpose.

You might want to wonder about why these gangs have been allowed to exist.

Just to add to the - this shooter was female!

Lousiana Technical College Shooting

How rare is that!?

[edit on 8/2/08 by kosmicjack]

There is nothing sudden about a "surge".

JMO

I personally think the government is driving people crazy by either the means of messing with vaccines, scalar weaponry, scalary technology, cell phones, technologicaly generated diseases & through brainwashing.

It seems like the normal thing to watch on the news these days, and the stations seem to be so festooned in reporting them over and over and over. The most basic form of mind control is repetition.

You want to know how they do it?
By feeding us a daily does of Brittany Spears,Paris Hilton, and Heath Ledger along with: this murder that murder,this rape that high speed chase,on and on and on to dull our senses. Then we have the constant bombardment of advertising with you need this ,you need that or you will not be protecting you or your families lives to maintain the fear factor.This keeps you on edge all the time.Then we have the drugs that are pushed on us and our children on a daily basis....the Prozac generation.That sounds a lot like a pusher to me.
Then we get to the food......much of which has no nutritional value what so ever.The fat content all the fortifications and preservatives.This to keep you fat and tired all the time.And we add a little video gaming for the kiddies to keep them from getting fresh air which would keep a lot of people healthier if they got more of it in my opinion.

You can see how the brainwashing works on many in western society.But I feel something is starting to happen....people are starting to wake up now and notice things.....thank you ATS and Ron Paul.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by CaptGizmo]

I can see how these people snapped. I think it has more to do with the morals and values of society. Not necessarily the gunman but the victims. I am around so many people that are willing to do (or not do) anything for a buck or to keep their job. Most people that I am around are not willing to stand up for what they believe in. How many people here can say they would actually stand up for what they believed in if it meant they would lose their job? I think this causes people to feel alone and helpless. Like know one is on their side. I have felt this way myself so many times. However, instead of getting a gun and shooting people, I am more self destructive... I get depressed and don't take as good of care of myself and my family as I should.

As far as gun control... I don't think keeping our guns will protect us from the government BUT I do believe that my gun will keep me protected from people trying to steal my food when the Stuff hits the fan and people are starving.

2 cents.

reply to post by scientist


I don't think the drugs lead people to these shootings , they just fail to prevent these situations because they don't really change anything. Giving these people drugs doesn't change the situation that caused them to want/need the drugs in the first place. Giving the drugs to a kid who's picked on at school doesn't stop the other kids from picking on him. he still has to deal with the pressures he was facing before, and since the drugs don't get rid of the pressures i think it leaves a feeling of hopelessness in some people. If the supposed cure to their problems isn't working, what else can they do but end it all?

There is evidence in many of the headline-grabbing random-rage mass shootings of the past 15 years that does strongly suggest some kind of mind control is being used. From the mouths of the killers:



12-16-92 Wayne Lo, 18, Simon's Rock College, Great Barrington, Massachusetts, 2 dead, 4 wounded
-- .... he said the command to kill was a feeling. "It's not visual. It's not auditory," he said. "It's just, you realize it." He remains convinced, he said, that it was something outside of himself that gave him a message to do what he did.


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4-24-98 Andrew Wurst 14, Edinborough, PA, Parker Middle School(at off-campus school dance); 1 dead, 3 wounded
--"...Andrew had mentioned in a letter to a friend that 'the voices are coming again.' "
Wurst informed a forensic psychiatrist that, the government has programmed everyone, except for himself, by means of "time tablets" that control people's thoughts.

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5-22-98 Kip Kinkel, Springfield, OR, Thurston High School, 1 dead, 7 seriously wounded
--As to why he went on his rampage, Kip proclaimed, "my head kept telling me I had no other choice.... ."
--Kip.... couldn't remember driving to school and he battled the voices even as he entered the hallway at Thurston. "I talked to the voices. I said "I don't want to do this." " "He begged the voices not to make him do it. He knew it was wrong. He has a moral code."
The voices than cut a deal with Kip's suicidal aspirations. He could be free of them at last if he committed certain homicidal acts. Kip reported that after hearing the voices say hundreds of times, "You have to go to school! Kill everybody!" he begged them to "Promise me you'll let me kill myself after..." The voices assured him that he could do so......

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5-3-99 Southcoast Early Childhood Learning Center, Costa Mesa, California, Steven Allen Abrams, 39 Killed two toddlers and seriously injured several more when he drove his car at high speed onto the school playground.

--He believed government agencies had devised machines ..that "may even insert thoughts of killing"

--psychiatric records portray Abrams as a man haunted by delusions that the CIA or some other government agency("an unknown government agency") wanted him to become a killer.

---------------

5-20-99 T.J. Solomon, 15, Conyers, GA, Heritage High, 6 wounded-
-- A shrink hired by defense attorneys to examine T.J. said that T.J. had suicidal thoughts and believed to hear voices giving him commands. “He heard voices telling him to do strange things, but they were robotic voices, not human voices”

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3-2-05 Jason Clinard, 14, Stewart County High School, Cumberland City, TN
He shot his school bus driver six times, killing her as she stopped to pick him up. --The mother of the accused said she believes her son was not aware of his actions on the day..
--the teen told staff at Middle Tennessee Mental Health Institute that he had been "hearing voices for about five years, which instructed Jason to harm others and himself"
--The boy told the psychiatrist, "it's like somebody else controlling my body."

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3-21-05 Jeff Weise, 18, Red Lake HS, (10 dead, 4 wounded)
Web postings: "Lately I've been having some really strange dreams, they seem very realistic and filled with colour and sounds, ....a few night's ago I had this dream where I saw this very evil, very creepy canine's face coming toward's me, and I heard someone say "shoot!," either way everything went black and I could feel my whole body jerking and shaking, and while this was happening I could hear very loud and very distinct gunshot's, mostly machine gun fire... I found it very weird and woke up immediately after feeling a little disoriented... ."

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10-9-06 Memorial Middle School, Joplin, MO
A 13-year-old student walked into the east side of Memorial Middle School where he pointed the gun at two men, asked them “not to make me do this” and then raised the gun and fired a shot into the ceiling of the school, breaking a water pipe. After firing the shot, he said again, “Please don’t make me do this.”

Also, I predict that the next mass casualty attacks will be against school buses and/or hospitals.

Originally posted by scientist
reply to post by Halcy0n

 

I happen to think the rise in shootings is DIRECTLY related to the rise in mood-altering prescription drugs (anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, ritalin, etc.)

It seems every single school shooting in recent history has been the result of a young adult on legal drugs, although that angle is rarely emphasized for obvious reasons.

I agree with you scientist but I also think that this is a combination of mind-altering chemicals PLUS the worsening economy. As long as there are multiple factors involved, it makes it hard to pinpoint the exact cause.

And to take it a step further... who knows what mind-altering messages are being shoved into our heads subliminally by the television (what is high-def anyway?). Maybe those messages are only affecting those who are already teetering on the edge.

Never underestimate the power of multiple influences.

reply to post by scientist


That's the big link between VT and Columbine, the ones who committed the shootings were all on anti-depressants. I say ban anti-depressants and have the people who "need" them tough out their funk and get back to reality. Part of depression is because of people being so full of themselves and the way that society has become so screwed up.
Examples: Everyone is a winner in sports and competitions, everyone is treated as if they are extremely special and unique, society has turned more towards valuing the individual more than before.
Anti-depressants really screw up a person, possibly permanently if they aren't taken off as soon as possible. It is better to never be on them in the first place. It has also been stated repeatedly in the advertisements for the drugs that side effects may include thoughts of suicide. They fail to mention the other side effect that homocidal thoughts are included.

Rant over.

reply to post by ThePiemaker

I do believe you just hit the nail on the head.

i think it leaves a feeling of hopelessness in some people

(emphasis mine)

I see this as simple hopelessness. I just heard on ComradeNewsNetwork today that the man who shot up the city council had a long history of problems with them over his business. No doubt... the business I used to run had quite a few run-ins with the local municipalities, most of them concerning how much of my money they wanted to confiscate (the rest concerning how someone else could get some of my business through legal restrictions).

Faced with a world in which nothing seems to make sense anymore, where doing a good job is punished by outrageous taxation and restrictions and even prosecution, where the comfort of an animal is paramount to the safety of a person, where guns are punished but those who use them are allowed to walk free, where a foreigner can walk across the border illegally and be given free health care, rent, food, etc. while working citizens are required to pay for it all, where the collapse of a major Interstate bridge is forgotten in the budget, but that needed $700,000 bike trail is included, where drug dealers are given free transportation, room, and board to testify against those who legally tried to arrest them in order to jail the innocent, where... oh, heck, you get the idea.

Now add into that the lack of social contact that our 'civilized' society has created. No more do you need to go out at night to visit a friend or attend a party, no, you just communicate via text messages, e-mail, forums like this one (no offense to ATS), or chat rooms while sitting in your bedroom. Even sex is available through that keyboard... with none of those pesky diseases or personality traits that are so tedious. Go to town to shop? Why, when everything you need or want is available with the click of a mouse?

Humans are social animals. They are being deprived of that social need.

Humans are spiritual beings. They are being denied the basic spiritual need of fairness and reason.

Humans are animals. They will do what they must to survive, and when those basic needs are not met, their view of survival can become very twisted.

"Everyone is following a simple, logical plan for survival in the type of world they think they live in."

This will escalate. I suggest the rest of you find a nice quiet rock to hide under until it passes... I have. And find your own rock, 'cause I'm armed.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
reply to post by scientist

 

That's the big link between VT and Columbine, the ones who committed the shootings were all on anti-depressants. I say ban anti-depressants and have the people who "need" them tough out their funk and get back to reality. Part of depression is because of people being so full of themselves and the way that society has become so screwed up.
Anti-depressants really screw up a person, possibly permanently if they aren't taken off as soon as possible. It is better to never be on them in the first place. It has also been stated repeatedly in the advertisements for the drugs that side effects may include thoughts of suicide. They fail to mention the other side effect that homocidal thoughts are included.

Rant over.

You are correct in that a lot of the shooters were on antidepressants and also that antidepressants screw people up. But the piece you're missing in your post is that people are put on antidepressants because they're consuming food and using products that are filled with chemicals that cause depression. As long as people are exposed to the chemicals, they can't just ride it out and get out of their chemically-induced 'funk'. They have to get away from the chemicals first. I know because I had to do it in order to get off of antidepressants.

It is weird how it seems to come in waves. I miss the good old days when these idiots just shot themselves for the most part. No reason to hurt innocent people, also a GREAT reason to have a CHL. You never know when and where someone is going to twist off, be it in a mall or church. Could be a gun, car, sword, knife, bomb....whatever. You need to be able to save you and your family should it happen. Banning guns is not going to happen. 200 million firearms out there folks..too late for that. So choice 2 is arm yourself.

TheRedneck.........Got my rock........Barrett 82A1 from Bachman Guns in Dallas

[edit on 9-2-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

Thanks to the OP for opening up this discussion, very interesting theories indeed.

Mass murders or "massacres" are really nothing new, you can search the web and find plenty of documentation regarding them throughout the past century, but it is my opinion that these sorts of "events" are getting more attention from the mainstream media now. Ultimately, that could be for some of these reasons:
They are pretty much self-explanatory.

A) Dramatic increase in population, resulting in more "unstable" individuals per capita.

B) A larger number of young adults that are being heavily medicated to treat underlying psychological issues.

C) Easier access to information.

D) General lack of regard for human life and feelings of hopelessness.

I will have to rule out the idea of MKULTRA and sorts of things here.... but I'm not dismissing the thought as there is a lot of things that are possible, but if it was me and if I had my choice, I would rather pick A. Since it is the most logical theory... and it ties into the other possibilities. I did remember reading somewhere that the increase in suicides and violent behavior in young adults who were taking certain medications doubled, in that particular one I believe it was (accutane) a drug administered to treat acne.

Undoubtedly the stress of assuming a normal life with your peers, paying your bills, and the general upbringing come into the equation here... I'm quite curious to see if we can dig up some data to see what the statistics show. Sometimes the simplest answer is not always the best.

[For what it is worth, I also feel that firearms are not the root problem, as a previous poster said... this is happening in more places than the USA. Could be anti-gun propaganda with the help of the MSM]



That is my CO2


T-

(edited for clarity of content and personal theory)

[edit on 9-2-2008 by telemetry]