The limitations of Biological UFO pilots

Welcome.

I have no proof of anything, no data, no videos, just an idea.

For the purposes of this thread, I'd like to assume ET's are visiting earth, they come from outside our galaxy, and they are travelling distance, not time or dimensionally.

There are huge problems with sending biological pilots on a voyage.

Even at light speed, it could easily take 1 million years to make the trip ! The Universe is about 90+ Billion light years wide

Of course, they may be warping space, and travelling through wormholes, but the point I am trying to make is this type of travel must be tough on the pilot.
I'm assuming these entities must have liquids in their bodies, and must suffer from G-forces.
So with the trip possibly taking an extremely long time, and possibly exerting huge hazards on an occupant, I had an idea;
What if all the UFO's are "probe droids" or ships piloted by a robot or android, rather than a true life form ?
Two sci-fi examples would be the probe droid from Empire strikes back, and the android character, Ash from the movie Alien.

What do you think ?

you raise many great points; however, from what i have heard it is popularly thought that such vehicles are built with inertial dampeners to cancel the effects of gravity drag on the craft. However, there is one scientist who appeared on the History Channel show The Universe: Alien Galaxies who suggested exactly what you have regarding robotic probes visiting our planet. He also suggested that in a relatively short period of years it would be possible for us to download our consciousness into these probes in order to travlel the galaxy ourselves. Interesting idea isn't it?

another scientist hmmm,
well consciousness does not require a biological body.

in time you can build your form to whatever you desire,nano scale,energy strings,pure light.

wickedstar-,i believe conciousness can be transfered at the speed of light,and i believe there is a shared collective conciousness of advanced ET's,sort of like a mega internet.

whatever is experienced by one,can be experienced by all the others.

ile see you there!.

wow, thanks for posting ! I've never heard of those theories, but they make sense.

Another aspect that added to my idea was the common reports of greys and the big black eyes, and they are smallish

I think it's an old theory that the greys are wearing space suits, but I think if you were sending probes or androids, you would build them to suit the task, and pilots wouldn't have to be that big

Interesting video about space travel and possibilities aliens would have if they were flying light years. There are 10 parts on youtube, worth watching as it's very interesting and has top astronomers and scientists, based on science and astronomy.

Originally posted by welivefortheson
whatever is experienced by one,can be experienced by all the others.

[snip]

Anyway, I dont really think there is much of an issue if one look at science as a whole. We would have to assume a highly advanced species capable of faster than light travel even in worst case scenario. Spaceflight would be limited to a single system otherwise.

At this state of technology, I have no doubt that age is irrelevant. Even if they do grow old, it would be a simple matter of moving the brain to another body upon reaching terminal age. Or, the bodies dont age period: Aliens could be thousands years old simply because they havent died. Stasis is doable I suppose, but I question whether its relevant at the point of achieving good enough space flight.

This way, the "primitive" faster than light travel is achievable. If they could travel from point to point in an instant, of course then you wouldnt need longevity or any technology associated with it.

In the end its down to politics, lol. Which area do the alien goverment prioritize? Pure spaceflight, body engineering, theoretical science, what?

[edit on 24-11-2007 by merka]


Mod Edit: Removed unecessary remark.


[edit on 25-11-2007 by elevatedone]

reply to post by welivefortheson
Great thinking. See ya later.





Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 25-11-2007 by elevatedone]

In the end its down to politics, lol. Which area do the alien goverment prioritize? Pure spaceflight, body engineering, theoretical science, what?

[edit on 24-11-2007 by merka]

good point. Even if they aren't carbon based life forms evolved from a nitrogen and oxygen atmosphere, a group of beings intelligent enough to achieve inter-galaxy travel would have to have a purpose, and an objective right ?

even if they aren't violent because they get thier energy from the sun like photosynthesis (therefore aren't hunters, and wouldn't be territorial) and if they have a type of hive mentality, where no individual culture or nation is acting on it's own, if its a truly collective effort in the truest sense of the word, you still have resource restrictions, laws of physics, etc so you have to make a decision on where you are going and why you are going there

I think since an increase in sightings worldwide and nuclear testing seem somewhat correlated, they may be keeping tabs on the primative, violent primates that learned to split an atom and travel to the moon

reply to post by Zemouk


great video, thanks for posting it. I'll try to watch the whole series and post about it later

I believe the only way to traverse such distances is to fold space. Even traveling at the speed of light is not plausible. Not to mention Einsteins theories of light speed travel. And to the problem of G-force and a biological beings doesn't seem to be a problem.
If you do enough digging and searching you will find that our own Black project anti grav machines have mass reduction or there own gravity field effectively canceling out the sorrounding gravitational forces. But what do we do when we want to explore another planet, we send a probe. I believe the orbs and current rash of UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) sightings if they are ET craft would be probes. That would be the most logical approach.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
For the purposes of this thread, I'd like to assume ET's are visiting earth, they come from outside our galaxy, and they are travelling distance, not time or dimensionally.

There are huge problems with sending biological pilots on a voyage.

Even at light speed, it could easily take 1 million years to make the trip ! The Universe is about 90+ Billion light years wide

What do you think ?

I think you've just laid out pretty directly why the assumption of inter-galactic travel needs to be carefully scrutinized. Given what we know of the structure of the Universe today (a BIG caveat), it can't be done. If we also take as a given that 'alien' races are visiting here, i.e.: not everyone is crazy about UFOs, then the only conclusion possible is that our 'proven' theories of the structure of the Universe are wrong. That does not mean that what we HAVE proven is not correct, only that those theories must be sub-sets of capital-R Reality that are explainable in-context if we were to understand the Universe completely. Obviously at this point we don't have much to go on, therefore it remains speculation.

Originally posted by Osyris

If you do enough digging and searching you will find that our own Black project anti grav machines have mass reduction or there own gravity field effectively canceling out the sorrounding gravitational forces.

Got any links? I've done "plenty of digging" I guess my skills are lacking woefully because I have not found published info on this subject. So the web sites you've found sound like they're more interesting.....please point us in the right direction...I'd be interested on reading up on this....

Yeah, I agree, robotics would be the first contact.

Note how -we- do it. Do we visit Mars in stealthy ships, brimming with weapons and planet busting ray-guns? No.

We send tiny probes. Aliens would do the same thing.

Now, you have to set aside fantastical scenarios, because we don't know what outliers would be capable of, or what a million years of technology would bring, but it's fairly safe to conclude that smaller, streamlined and low cost is going to be the trend.

On the subject of 'liquid bodied' aliens - there are a few possibilities. If you didn't have an 'inertial-canceling' apparatus (whatever that is) then there might be thick gels that could be used to encase and stabilize the body using micro-controlled counter movements to cancel out the rapid movements (like noise cancelling headphones?) (remember Galaxy Quest?)

I think most people here have seen enough science fiction to realize that sure there could be worm-holes and transporter beams, but realize also those require a lot of energy and it's probably safer to theorize towards efficient, low cost methods first.

2 cents.

all of us assume we know the answer to space travel...but we are working with a limited amount of data based on our own known set of values... einstien, brilliant as he was, was working in the constrains of phsyics of his own time...proclaiming the speed of light cannot be surpassed is the "golden rule" of space travel... however by the recent discovery of "dark matter" and no true knowledge of its effects and/or properties, along with other undiscovered properties in this vast universe that are possible, might in the future make einstien look like the neanderthal who discovered fire. proclaiming laws of physics as we know them today, to be the standard bearers of future discoveries is both arrogant and unproductive. if aliens were to take on the obvious mundane task of educating us on advanced technologies, it will probably be far into the future. if you could possibly put yourself in "their shoes" why would you want to work with such a civilization like ours...we are warlike, selfish, uncaring, even to our own people. we humans, having accessed the power of splitting the atom, are a curiosity at best. ignorance abounds on this planet and no other race of beings would want us to be able to travel to other planets without some "growing up" to do first.

Originally posted by jimmyx
all of us assume we know the answer to space travel...but we are working with a limited amount of data based on our own known set of values... einstien, brilliant as he was, was working in the constrains of phsyics of his own time...proclaiming the speed of light cannot be surpassed is the "golden rule" of space travel... however by the recent discovery of "dark matter" and no true knowledge of its effects and/or properties, along with other undiscovered properties in this vast universe that are possible, might in the future make einstien look like the neanderthal who discovered fire. proclaiming laws of physics as we know them today, to be the standard bearers of future discoveries is both arrogant and unproductive. if aliens were to take on the obvious mundane task of educating us on advanced technologies, it will probably be far into the future. if you could possibly put yourself in "their shoes" why would you want to work with such a civilization like ours...we are warlike, selfish, uncaring, even to our own people. we humans, having accessed the power of splitting the atom, are a curiosity at best. ignorance abounds on this planet and no other race of beings would want us to be able to travel to other planets without some "growing up" to do first.

you are correct in some sense,that einstien was brilliant but physics has moved on alot,he glimpsed it for a while at the end of his career.

yet,

we now understand the workings of nuclear matter,ie atoms
en.wikipedia.org...

same goes for electromagnetism
en.wikipedia.org...

weve been working on elementary particles for some time,we know how they all behave.
en.wikipedia.org...

i believe we already know how gravity works,and it explains away dark matter,but that info is being suppressed.it involves scalar wave theory.ie gravity is a wave from a super field and can be controlled.
xxx.yukawa.kyoto-u.ac.jp...
www.springerlink.com...
www.springerlink.com...

its now all about this kind of stuff
www2.yukawa.kyoto-u.ac.jp...
www.sciam.com...

so what im saying is yes,humans behave in a primitive manner,but they can raise themselves to amazing heights.and we are doing some amazing things,but yes our general behaviour is still very pathetic for many reasons.



[edit on 25-11-2007 by welivefortheson]

[edit on 25-11-2007 by welivefortheson]

1) I don't know why so few people are aware of some simple things like Einstein's theory of relativity and time dilation. The faster a spacecraft travels, the more time slows down for the crew. What might seem like a million years to somebody on earth may be just days or months for those on a spacecraft. At 90% the speed of light the time ratio is 1:2, at 99% it's 1:7, it really shoots up exponentially between 99 and 100%. If man could build a vehicle that could travel at 99% light speed the crew could make it to the nearest star (which might have planets) in between 6 to 7 months time for the pilots (4+ years for those on earth). Considering the Russians have had a man in space for close to two years, you can see that none of this is outside our current understanding. It DOESN'T take millions of years for a UFO pilot to make it here.

2) However, as has been pointed out in the past, UFO's may be inter-dimensional, and they can shortcut across space by jumping into another dimension. String theory tells us there are about 7 or 8 other dimensions curled up in a compacted form. We know very little about that aspect yet.

3) The same gravitational field that pulls the UFO along or can cause a sudden change in direction is the same field that acts on the UFO pilots, so there is no G-force problem. That's the beauty of it. You don't need other counter balancing mechanisms to prevent G-forces because there aren't any.





[edit on 25-11-2007 by Elhardt]

[edit on 25-11-2007 by Elhardt]

[edit on 25-11-2007 by Elhardt]

reply to post by Elhardt


One of the problems with this is that you can't have a 'wormhole' very close to a planet. A craft would have to materialize outside the solar system so as not to disrupt our space-time, I think.

Then they'd basically have to proceed using 'impulse speed' to cover the remaining distance to any planet.

If they just had FTL travel, and didn't use wormholes, remember they'd also have to accelerate and decelerate. Once SOL was reached it could take many hundreds of years to decelerate to orbiting speed (about 64,000 kph?). To go from 1,079,252,848.8 kph to 64,000 kph is a factor of about 17 thousand times slower.


When you consider the local transit time, now you have to contend with the ability of a sentient species that was fairly aggressive and adventurous to deal with spending 6-10 months of confinement and isolation moving at impulse speed getting to orbit.

Of course they could be kept in suspended animation, or they may be more tolerant of space travel, or they could have some kind of inertial damper allowing faster deceleration. But it adds a layer of difficulty.

reply to post by syrinx high priest

For the purposes of this thread, I'd like to assume ET's are visiting earth, they come from outside our galaxy, and they are travelling distance, not time or dimensionally.

Well one has to wonder why there are so many sightings if they are slogging through space to get here. Like Elhardt pointed out, the trip is doable if you are going 99% of the speed of light. But it would take an enormous amount of energy to move a massive spaceship at that speed. Coming from another star system would be a daunting task and coming from another galaxy would be even more unrealistic.

Even if they are slogging through space to get here I'd have to imagine they would set up some base (like on the moon) to observe our civilization. Eventually man will have a permanent moon base and we'll really be able to scan the moon and see for ourselves. Recently I'm more inclined to believe "aliens" are probably alot closer than we think and not putting around in space.

I think you have a good point on the long travel part of the post but the "g-forces" is another story. You don't need to travel to another galaxy to experience the limitations imposed by g-forces.

Elhart,

I understand what you mean about the pilots perception of time, but if it takes actual light a million years to go a million "light years", for the sake of argument, aren't the pilots physical bodies on board for the full million years as well ?


Maybe I don't understand a light year, but I was just trying to point out the universe is a big place, and it could be a reeeallly long road trip to get here from there, even at the SOL

[edit on 26-11-2007 by syrinx high priest]

shameless bump

I had this discussion with a friend over the weekend again, and he was pushing the idea of dimension / mutliverse theory

any other ideas ?