Home Owner Stockpiles Ammo: ATF Raids. NWO - Project Disarm

Originally posted by xHADEEZx
reply to post by jedimiller

 

they said that there was no guns that were removed from his house. and it his a persons right to have everything he had. i do understand what your saying about all guns should be destroyed. but the reality is thats never gonna happen so you better arm yourself or get left behind.

What restraining order from is ex girlfriend did he break that made owning the ammo illegal? He did have psychological issues and that might be a reason and if those 20 or so drums are full of nitrate then I would say that is a no no, but in either case I’m confused to the ammo thing.

What evidence has been produced to show he had any mental issues at all? A news reporter saying so? Thats it? Nothing more?

Apparently if you think the economy is in trouble that means you are delusional.

Welcome to 1984, where sanity and reality is defined by the masses, instead of being defined by the facts.

Those who have taken authority over truth, instead of truth being taken as authority.

Just as a sidenote-

The video is back up and now I have it too, so if it disappears again and anyone needs it, just let me know.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by xHADEEZx] i decided to erase that post. its way off topic. and its pointless to talk about over the internet.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by xHADEEZx]

While i agree with the general thought of the thread (pro 2nd amendment, beware of the nanny state), I have to say the fuel and nitrate, in a non-commercial, non-farming area raises some serious questions. I know several people into "prepardness" or "survival", but none that keep large amounts of fertilizer and fuel in the middle of a city. Maybe 25 gallons of gas for a generator. Even if he was keeping it for "growing food and running the tractor", where in a city is he going to do this.

Bet the feds were watching for a while or had more on him then what we know. Hard to say.

I have heard worse than that...The Bush administration is supporting a bill that would basically be unconstitutional...But throw in the word "Terrorist" and its all good. The bill sounds good, except the word "Suspected." It says that if a person is "Suspected of Terrorism, they cant own firearms...They could "suspect" anyone! Read more here.

www.azstarnet.com...

[Mod Edit: Inappropiate post removed - Jak]

[edit on 6/9/07 by JAK]

Wow. I left last night and this thread only had about 10 posts..all the sudden people seem angered. why does it anger you that I am against arming civilians who don't need guns? it's fear that drives this country.


I have no fear, I need no gun. And I been able to get out of situations without using a weapon. There should be a law limiting the number of handguns civilians can own. I'd say one gun and one bullet should be enough.

This guy was mentally ill, obviously he doesn't need that much ammo..unless he plans to kill 30 people in one day. so it's a good thing that he was checked out. there is no way one man needs more than one gun in their home.

what is this the old west? I mean come on, we are living in 2007. We should stop taking the law into our own hands, if you want to be a hero, join the police department and get a license, a permit or whatever else. get some training and follow the laws.

I still belive guns kill people..not people. without a gun it would be very hard for A 17 year old kid to kill me. People who own guns have this power authority problem that makes them think they are better than you.

The constitution grants you the right to have weapons..in case of a warlike situation or to protect yourself from harm. we are not at war, you don't have indians trying to take down your door anymore. I say leave the guns to the professionals, the military and the people who know how to use them correctly..and take them away from the crazy guy in the basement.

Most say you need a weapon at home to protect yourself..if that's true, then you have to be certain that time will come. But people take advantage of that and misuse their rights, as seen in this case.


Jedimiller

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
I wish there was a button which would put the "Moron" label over someones name.

I wish someone would read the site terms and rules as suggested in a previous thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 5-9-2007 by C0le]

Originally posted by jedimiller
why does it anger you that I am against arming civilians who don't need guns? it's fear that drives this country.

Have you ever read the U.S. Constitution?

This guy was mentally ill

I asked for proof earlier and I was ignored. Can you provide that proof?

I still belive guns kill people

Provide a single instance where a gun has ever killed someone without being operated by a human.

without a gun it would be very hard for A 17 year old kid to kill me.

He could simply run you over or set your house on fire while you are sleeping.

People who own guns have this power authority problem that makes them think they are better than you.

Actually its the common sense that we gun owners have that makes us better than you.

The constitution grants you the right to have weapons..in case of a warlike situation or to protect yourself from harm.

Evidently U.S. history isn't your strong suit. The 2nd Amendment is a means to an end of a tyrannical government.

Most say you need a weapon at home to protect yourself..if that's true, then you have to be certain that time will come. But people take advantage of that and misuse their rights, as seen in this case.

Like you are misusing your right to spew false information here?

Originally posted by jedimiller
Wow. I left last night and this thread only had about 10 posts..all the sudden people seem angered. why does it anger you that I am against arming civilians who don't need guns? it's fear that drives this country.

Thats a good question, Besides the constitution I'm not sure why.. But aside from that it is your right to be against whatever it is you please, But its also my right to do and own whatever it is I please unless I violate another mans rights.
In the True Republic that is the USA, No man, No majority, and no Government can tread on me. so your personal opinions on such things are of little importance to me in the grand scheme of things.

I have no fear, I need no gun. And I been able to get out of situations without using a weapon. There should be a law limiting the number of handguns civilians can own. I'd say one gun and one bullet should be enough.

Again you are entitled to your beliefs, but you have no right to force such beliefs against me, through any law.

This guy was mentally ill

The only thing mentioned in this was that he was "delusional" for what reasons and rather or not thats true has yet to be determined

obviously he doesn't need that much ammo..unless he plans to kill 30 people in one day. so it's a good thing that he was checked out. there is no way one man needs more than one gun in their home.

If you owned guns first you'd realize its not that much much ammo, I go through 1k in about an hour at the range... Buy it cheap stack it deep...
Second I own plenty of guns yet amazingly I don't feel compelled to go on a shooting spree, its called collecting..
and third, If the SHTF ammo can have uses beyond you using it, ie bartering.. it will be worth more then that paper in your wallet.

what is this the old west? I mean come on, we are living in 2007. We should stop taking the law into our own hands, if you want to be a hero, join the police department and get a license,

This the same police that beat people every day? and violate pretty much every constitutional right?
Also how is owning a gun taking the law into your own hands? its called protection, and btw, that gun is the law. read the Constitution.

a permit or whatever else. get some training and follow the laws.

Dont need a permit for a right, and I do follow the law, I haven't killed threatened or committed crime with any of the guns in my vast arsenal,

I still belive guns kill people..not people.

Then surely they can be talked out of killing people, I'm sure they posses a conscience and reason.
perhaps we need a new task force for negotiating with these guns.

The constitution grants you the right to have weapons..in case of a warlike situation or to protect yourself from harm. we are not at war, you don't have indians trying to take down your door anymore.

The Constitution doesn't "grant" me any rights, it ensures my birthrights as a human being. Aside from that you are incorrect, its to keep the government and anyone else who threatens liberty in check.

I say leave the guns to the professionals, the military and the people who know how to use them correctly..and take them away from the crazy guy in the basement.

You mean the people who are trained to kill?
As opposed to the civilians who will hopefully and most likely never have to fire said weapons at another human being?

Most say you need a weapon at home to protect yourself..if that's true, then you have to be certain that time will come. But people take advantage of that and misuse their rights, as seen in this case.

A right is a right, what people do with freedom is there choice, if they commit a crime against another human being thats on them, and they are punished for such things.

whats crime did this man commit?

[edit on 5-9-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by AllSeeingI


I have contacted liveleak regarding the unavailability of this thread's video.
They have replied to me and said:
"We've had a few issues that have been resolved now."

Also the video link in the original thread post seems to be working.

Probably just some ill timed technical problems.

Honestly, I’ve never been quite so moved by a random thread; it has caused me to critically evaluate myself, pondering deep thought. But, I feel like I’m prepared to share my conclusion; if you can call it that.

I’m an experienced veteran; so, in some ways, that may put some of you off. Meaning, you may feel that my beliefs and values have been re-programmed or severely tainted. But, rest assured, I’m neither brainwashed nor hyper-compliant. I am an open-minded, assertive, kind, educated, and spiritual man. I think that most of these characteristics have been acquired through both marriage and parenthood; neither of which is easy.

Prior to 9/11 - let me say that again - PRIOR to 9/11 and up till now, I’ve inspected and dissected “the system” of government that we live under; turning over and analyzing nearly every vitally relevant issue and policy. Therefore, I – as well as many of you - have acquired a crystal clear understanding of this “system”. So, I bear witness to the following: a well-financed and globally connected regime is methodically executing subversive tyranny, and is achieving unprecedented momentum every day. Believe me folks; I’ve come to terms with this very disturbing reality. Of course, I don’t like it; I hate it! I agree with ol’ Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!" followed by a motivating, "To Arms! To Arms!" However, I want to be brutally honest with you; I’m really not sure if I would actually behave that way. I mean, I get it – they’re inevitably going to attempt to disarm me, and I know it opposes our Constitutional rights, but think about it, “do you really wanna’ risk death in that situation? I bet some of you are already shouting, “Hell Yea!” But, I bet if it were to actually happen to you tonight. BANG; the door flies open, uniformed personnel storming your bedroom, and barrels aimed at your head – I seriously doubt it.

Now, hold on; before all of you start rolling your eyes – hear me out. There was a time when I wouldn’t have hesitated to place as many well aimed shots as I could, in the defense of both myself and my family against a seemingly “un-American” force. But, within our own boarders (what boarders we have left), the paramilitary force is - arguably - “American”; so, that scenario will never end with you as a prevailing hero. Unfortunately, it will deliver you and possibly your own children, to rest several feet underground. Still, some of you are probably thinking “BS, I don’t care what you say; no mater what goes down, I won’t give up without a fight! Plus, what does it matter if my children died defending freedom, I’d rather they perish now than live in enslavement!” Well, those ideas sound “ok”, but ask your self, are they really the answer? They might be or they might not be.

For now, I remain frustrated and perplexed. On one hand, I’m in agreement towards exercising fierce defiance regarding any type of NWO ordained police state, but what about exercising hope itself. What if you chose a submissive approach to the encounter? Withstanding warrant-less arrests, imprisonment, or even tortures; wouldn’t that inevitably prove inspirational? Talk about empowering a courageous spirit. Wouldn’t that inspire you? Look at history; countless numbers of people have suffered at the hand of an evil ruling authority. But, some endured to the end – bless their soul. To me, that’s exceptionally heroic. Who knows, you may very well live to see the day when our nation is released from this wickedness. In the end, a swift judgement will unfold. Wouldn’t you want to be around to witness that? That probably has a religious undertone, but you get the point.

To tell you the truth, when the time comes - and it will – for troops to “knock” on my door to disarm me, I’m not sure what I’ll do. I guess I need to think about it some more. It’s a serious question to ponder; what will you do?


[edit: removed excessive use of bold text]

[edit on 5-9-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

This is quite scary really!

Seen as I live in england, I dont see that being that much of a big problem over here as if any policeman deserved it then he wouldn't be armed!

Most of the gun owners over here are young gang members or old style gangters.

Most of us wouldn't be affected I think.

But nonetheless, if it comes to it, I'll learn Jedi.

without a gun it would be very hard for A 17 year old kid to kill me.


He could simply run you over or set your house on fire while you are sleeping.

The funny part is that if you owned a gun in those situations, it would mean nothing.

So why do you still need it?

Actually its the common sense that we gun owners have that makes us better than you.

HAHAHA! *snip* be serious. You think because you have a gun makes you better than anyone else?

Having a gun, to me, just says 'coward'

Evidently U.S. history isn't your strong suit. The 2nd Amendment is a means to an end of a tyrannical government.

Which you dont have right now at all, right?

Like you are misusing your right to spew false information here?

A belief isnt false information.

In the True Republic that is the USA

Where is this place located? All i see is a country who doesnt know whether its a democracy or a republic or an Empire.

No man, No majority, and no Government can tread on me

Unfortunatly

so your personal opinions on such things are of little importance to me in the grand scheme of things.

Yes i know, damn all other people. only YOUR opinion matters. thats Absolutly true, because YOU believe it. Now you should go out and burn the witches, because YOU say so.

Do you see where im going?

Again you are entitled to your beliefs, but you have no right to force such beliefs against me, through any law.

So do you really need 7 handguns, 14 rifles and an anti aircraft gun? Its not like the king of englands going to come back for revenge, is he?

If you owned guns first you'd realize its not that much much ammo, I go through 1k in about an hour at the range... Buy it cheap stack it deep...

yes, and in a practical situation you will of course be shooting at a foe for an entire hour...uninterrupted.

Again, as one poster said. This isnt the wild west anymore. You cant just walk out of your home expecting to blast some Injans.

Second I own plenty of guns yet amazingly I don't feel compelled to go on a shooting spree, its called collecting..

Yep, if i went on a shooting spree i'd call it 'collecting' as well

and third, If the SHTF ammo can have uses beyond you using it, ie bartering.. it will be worth more then that paper in your wallet.

So, your advocating violent revolution through supply to fuel your own greed?

What kind of person are you?

This the same police that beat people every day? and violate pretty much every constitutional right?

I agree, we should get rid of all police! let America and its guns govern themselves...Then the rest of the world can watch as it tears itself apart in the first 20 seconds...

Also how is owning a gun taking the law into your own hands? its called protection, and btw, that gun is the law. read the Constitution.

The law is wrong. Listen to the little gremlin in your head called "common sense" for once.

Dont need a permit for a right, and I do follow the law, I haven't killed threatened or committed crime with any of the guns in my vast arsenal,

yet.

Then surely they can be talked out of killing people, I'm sure they posses a conscience and reason.
perhaps we need a new task force for negotiating with these guns.

Your just being an ass for the sake of it, you know what he means. Your just saying these things because you have no actual debate.

The Constitution doesn't "grant" me any rights

Yes, it does. it gives you rights.

Other countries in the world have constitutions, they dont have all the hype the American one has, they dont claim to be the be all end all.

I get the rights of being a human for being a human, not because the constitution says so.

v

You mean the people who are trained to kill?
As opposed to the civilians who will hopefully and most likely never have to fire said weapons at another human being?

If people are most likely never going to have to fire it at another human being...why have them?

whats crime did this man commit?

Its not the crime, its the situation.

By your logic i can give that man sitting in the corner muttering to himself a knife or 7, because its his right to have them.

Then i get to watch as he hurts or kills himself and others.


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

O'M'- STOP the personal attacks, and ease up on the profanity.

I'm starting to see a pattern, and it's not one, which will get you very far, around here.






[edit on 5-9-2007 by Jbird]

those last 3 posts deserve a round of applause. can somenone tell me how to do that?

[edit on 5-9-2007 by jedimiller]

the key of it is to remember that to "Deny Ignorance" doesnt mean to believe everything your told here.

I skipped several pages of this thread -got tired of reading the arguments back and forth. But I wonder if anyone bothered to link to or read the affidavit (pdf file) ?

1. The restraining order prohibits Mr. Rider from possessing firearms or ammunition
   
2. Mr. Rider admitted to shooting out the windows of someone's car
   
3. Mr. Rider publicly threatened to kill or have someone else kill the possible boyfriend of the woman who requested the restraining order
   
4. He made these threats on several separate occasions
   
5. The man's home was not "raided". He was taken in for questioning, apprised of his Miranda rights, given time to speak with a lawyer, then questioned.
   
6. After being questioned and speaking with his lawyer again, he agreed to let the officer search his home and property
   
7. He unlocked his own door, invited them in, and suggested they make a list of what he had because "They were going to need the same things"
   
8. Mr. Rider claimed he was stockpiling ammunition because the police would come to him when they needed more ammunition
   

Personally, I think anyone who thinks the police are going to knock on your door and ask for your ammunition because they've used all theirs is pretty delusional.

Look at the big picture.The 2nd amendment was put into the Constitution in order for the people to be able to defend themselves from government tyranny!! We are fighting an ages old battle to maintain our liberty. If the government is able to disarm the general populace the fascist bueracrats and politicians will be able to do whatever they please at our expence.There are provisions for those who violate the law to lose these rights but not without prooper due process. Read your 4th amendment!!Use your heads and think don't react on emotion. When you react on emotion you get tyranny of the majority . If there is any doubt read the history of the French Revolution.