Free Energy and its Political Economic Reality

It ought to work, though the energy produced would be nowhere near enough to supply a significant portion of any city’s power grid. It may be enough to power a small factory, though. As to the design, you don’t need two watermills in opposite directions to keep the whole thing from taking off. One is fine. But depending on practicality of construction, you could use just about any number and size of them.

Here's a guy willing to put money where other people just talk.

reply to post by hinky

Hi Hinky, I wonder if that is government money he is offering?

Most people have difficulty with the concept of free energy, over unity, etc. However, the people involved with quantum physics presently view the atomic structure as involving a type of perpetual motion maintaining the integrity and structure of the atom. In particular the electron (and probably all other particles) are simply energy in either spin or vibration. A quantum physicist assumes that the spin or vibration will continue indefinately and maintain the structure of the atom. Few have questioned where the energy comes from that maintains the atomic structure but it is obviously there or our world would collapse. So it seems obvious that there is some kind of a universal field around us maintaining the atomic structure. If atoms can tap into it and perpetually maintain their structure why can't we do the same and produce free energy? Not a difficult concept just difficult to implement!

Ops, double post!

[edit on 18-10-2007 by plumranch]

Originally posted by plumranch:

Here's a guy willing to put money where other people just talk.

reply to post by hinky

 

Hi Hinky, I wonder if that is government money he is offering?

It’s comments like that that lead people to not take CTs seriously.

Originally posted by plumranch:
Most people have difficulty with the concept of free energy, over unity, etc. However, the people involved with quantum physics presently view the atomic structure as involving a type of perpetual motion maintaining the integrity and structure of the atom. In particular the electron (and probably all other particles) are simply energy in either spin or vibration. A quantum physicist assumes that the spin or vibration will continue indefinately and maintain the structure of the atom. Few have questioned where the energy comes from that maintains the atomic structure but it is obviously there or our world would collapse. So it seems obvious that there is some kind of a universal field around us maintaining the atomic structure. If atoms can tap into it and perpetually maintain their structure why can't we do the same and produce free energy? Not a difficult concept just difficult to implement!

I’m not a physicist, so I don’t know if your description is accurate, but the way you put it, it would seem it isn’t so much free energy as an energy we don’t yet understand.

Originally posted by plumranch
. Few have questioned where the energy comes from that maintains the atomic structure but it is obviously there or our world would collapse. So it seems obvious that there is some kind of a universal field around us maintaining the atomic structure. If atoms can tap into it and perpetually maintain their structure why can't we do the same and produce free energy? Not a difficult concept just difficult to implement!

Not really. The stlructure of atoms is maintained by forces, not energy. The "universal field ... maintaining the atomic structure" is a combination of forces. There is no perpetual motion here.

Also, particles don't live forever:

en.wikipedia.org...

Where do you get your physics from?

reply to post by jim_w

Also, particles don't live forever

Hi Jim, You're reference to particle decay applies to unstable elements. Once they reach a stable configuration they have no reason to decay further. Are you saying that an ounce of gold found in an ancient tomb weighs less today than it did originally several thousand years ago ?

reply to post by jim_w

There is no perpetual motion here

Hi again Jim,
When I studied Physical Chemistry (graduate level course KSU) quantum mechanics was the theory. Electrons were described as positively charged particles "spinning" in ORBITS. Take an atom of calcium laid down in a bed of limestone millions of years ago. Its 20? electrons were spinning when it entered the limestone bed and they are still spinning today. How is that not perpetual motion?

Originally posted by agondonter
Id like to describe a low tech device that can create vast amounts of energy almost free and pollution free. (I'd draw a picture but I'm still a novice with computers so bear with me). Many of our population centers are located along coastlines that have underwater currents such as the Japan current off the coast of California that flows south at about 5 knots.....

These have already been used in rivers and estuaries for powering buildings. The offset of electrical cost takes several to pay for the units. This is a great idea and will be used for years to come. The engineering is not as good as it should be, but then, give it some time in the market and the product line will become very good.

I don't consider this to be free energy. The payback period for the cost offset may exceed the life expectancy of the units. It's environmentally friend to be sure, as long as the manufacturing process involved isn't taken into account. This "green source" alone has a marketing value the companies haven't missed for advertisement.

Seriously, you should check into the market were you live. There may be a great opportunity for you to sell some of these.

www.eurekamagazine.co.uk...

Originally posted by plumranch

Here's a guy willing to put money where other people just talk.

reply to post by hinky

 

Hi Hinky, I wonder if that is government money he is offering?

I hadn't thought about that. I don't look over my shoulders very often either. I did like the government money part though....Good job!

Originally posted by plumranch
Most people have difficulty with the concept of free energy, over unity, etc. However, the people involved with quantum physics presently view the atomic structure as involving a type of perpetual motion maintaining the integrity and structure of the atom. In particular the electron (and probably all other particles) are simply energy in either spin or vibration. A quantum physicist assumes that the spin or vibration will continue indefinately and maintain the structure of the atom. Few have questioned where the energy comes from that maintains the atomic structure but it is obviously there or our world would collapse. So it seems obvious that there is some kind of a universal field around us maintaining the atomic structure. If atoms can tap into it and perpetually maintain their structure why can't we do the same and produce free energy? Not a difficult concept just difficult to implement!

This is what I'm talking about. The idea of little nano-windmills that gather the "wind" from these vibrations. Or even nano-waterwheels for the electrons to rotate on nano-generators. This is outside the box, but that's a good thing.

The free part of this equation is how many generations ahead of us. Trillions of dollars, not billions, will be spent for research then development. I understand the free energy part, but at what cost in real money.

I find the science in parts of this really cool and very cutting edge. But the economics of the entire energy field dictates a vastly different reality than what people dream of. It's not a conspiracy, cover-up, or even the government wanting to keep the little people down. It's an economic situation that drives all things.

reply to post by hinky

Hi Hinky, Well, we agree on that! I'll have to call my quantum mechanic and tell him to get right on this idea

Speaking of "free energy" .. I'm about to spend relatively big bucks installing a geothermal or ground source heat pump on the ranch property. Anyone have some experience with these? A U2U would be great!

This one is for NRen2k the magnet man

I've been reading a bit about HANS COLER.

Here's a link: www.energyscience.org.uk...

Seems he managed to get something happening from magnets. Unfortunately, no-one, including himself, could explain how it worked.

Here's an excerpt:

Accordingly Coler was visited and interrogated. He proved to be co-operative and willing to disclose all details of his devices, and consented to build up and put into operation a small model of the so-called 'Magnetstromapparat' using material supplied to him by us, and working only in our presence. With this device, consisting only of permanent magnets, copper coils, and condensers in a static arrangement he showed that he could obtain a tension of 450 millivolts for a period of some hours: and in a repetition of the experiment the next day 60 millivolts was recorded for a short period. The apparatus has been brought back and is now being further investigated.

Coler also discussed another device called the 'Stromerzeuger', from which he claimed that, with an input of a few watts from a dry battery an output of 6 kilowatts could be obtained indefinitely. No example of this apparatus exists, but Coler expressed his willingness to construct it, given the materials, the time required being about three weeks.

Opportunity was taken to interrogate Dr. F. Modersohn who had been associated with Coler for ten years and had provided financial backing. He corroborated Coler's story in every detail.

Neither Coler nor Modersohn were able to give any theory to account for the working of these devices, using acceptable scientific notions.

The guy writing the paper I linked to reckons he has a handle on it, something to do with pole flipping. There's an awful lot of technical stuff there about magnetism, thought you might like to check it out.

By the way, I came across an interesting letter posted on an alternative health website from a buddhist monk Don Croft, claiming that Dennis Lee stole technology from Wilhelm Muller and was a CIA operative.

Bill's daughter told me, shortly after he was murdered, that a CIA operative, Dennis Lee, got hold of one of her dad's devices and used that to give himself enough credibility to steal millions of dollars from investors, through Greer's unwitting sponsorship.

I had to laugh. Shame Wade got canned and isn't around to respond.

reply to post by RogerT


Millivolts. Wow, tons of power there. I wonder at what amperage?

Seems like the device is picking up background radiation. There are these neat little educational kits you can get to listen to radio off of not much more than copper wire wound around a toilet paper roll, actually.

And yeah, that bit about Dennis Lee is priceless.

Originally posted by NRen2k5


Millivolts. Wow, tons of power there.

I wonder at what amperage?

OK, but what about the The 'Stromerzeuger' - 6kW is fairly impressive and could certainly power most of the requirments of my own home.

This device consists of an arrangement of magnets, flat coils and copper plates, with a primary circuit energized by a small dry battery. The output from the secondary was used to light a bank of lamps and was claimed to be many times the original input and to continue indefinitely. Details of the circuit and a theory as to its mode of operation were given (summarized in Appendix I). (Note by H. Aspden: This Appendix is not included in these Web pages. I cannot accept Coler's theory, which suggests that electrical charges are also tiny magnetic poles, of north or south polarity, which can move with current through the magnet and somehow gain energy from the magnet. Quite clearly, Coler did not understand why his device worked.)

In 1925 Coler showed a small (10-watt) version to Prof. Kloss (Berlin), who asked the Government to give it a thorough investigation, but this was refused, as was also a patent, on the grounds that it was a "perpetual motion machine". This version was also seen by Profs. Schumann (Munich), Bragstad (Trondheim) and Knuden (Copenhagen). Reports by Kloss and Schumann are translated in Appendices II and III.

In 1933 Coler and von Unruh made a slightly larger model with an output of 70 watts. This was demonstrated to Dr. F. Modersohn, who obtained from Schumann and Kloss confirmation of their tests in 1926. Modersohn then consented to back the invention and formed a company (Coler G.m.b.h.) to continue the development. At the same time a Norwegian group had been giving financial support to Coler, and these two groups clashed. Modersohn's connection with Rheinmetall Borsig, and hence with the official Hermann Goering, combined to give him an advantage in this. Coler then in 1937 built for the Company a larger version with an output of six kilowatts.

In 1943 Modersohn brought the device to the attention of the Research Department of the O.K.M. The investigation was placed under the direction of Oberbaurat Seysen, who set Dr. H. Frohlich to work with Coler from April 1, 1943 to September 25, 1943. Frohlich was convinced of the reality of the phenomena and set about investigating the fundamentals of the device. He apparently concentrated on a study of the energy changes which occur on the opening and closing of inductive circuits. At the end of the period he was transferred to B.M.W. to work on aerodynamic problems and is now working in Moscow.

In 1944 a contract was arranged by O.K.M. with Continental Metall A.G. for further development, but this was never carried out owing to the state of the country. In 1945 the apparatus was destroyed by a bomb, in Kolberg, whither Coler had evacuated. Since that time Coler had been employed sometimes as a labourer. Modersohn had severed his connection with Rheinmetall Borsig, of which he had been a Director, and was working for the Russian authorities as a consultant in chemical engineering.

same link.

there's more of the writer's theory here:

www.energyscience.org.uk...

but like I said, above my head on the physics, unless I do a lot more homework

reply to post by RogerT

Hi Roger, Nice find!
If anyone wants to try one of the Coler apparati... try the 3" cow magnets available for about $13 a pair ( Google cow magnet)). They are a nice size and very strong.

reply to post by plumranch



Like I said, the physics in the paper was a bit over the top for me at this time (very busy building a house - so engineering more my cup of tea at the moment)

however a quick read seemed to suggest that the magnet size was critical - something to do with the frequency

As our resident magnet expert, I would really appreciate if you'd give this some attention NRen.


[edit on 24-10-2007 by RogerT]

reply to post by RogerT
Hi Roger,
Coler's physics were thought to be faulty in spite of the apparatus working. He thought that the magnets operated at a frequency that corresponded to the frequency in the circuit when working. I see no frequency in either magnet or circuit. The only variation I noted was the position of the magnets, how far apart. Nothing was stated about their strength except that the strength did not decrease durring the experiment and the magnets should be matched in strength. I wondered how many turns they used on the magnets, that could be a big variable.
Good luck on the house building!

reply to post by plumranch



Thanks again.

Once my house is built next year, I fancy having a crack at replicating one or two of these devices.

I found an interesting thread from 2004 on ATS regarding a german device, haven't had time to fully digest yet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by NRen2k5


Millivolts. Wow, tons of power there.

I wonder at what amperage?

OK, but what about the The 'Stromerzeuger' - 6kW is fairly impressive and could certainly power most of the requirments of my own home.

What about it? By all accounts, it never existed.

This device consists of an arrangement of magnets, flat coils and copper plates, with a primary circuit energized by a small dry battery. The output from the secondary was used to light a bank of lamps and was claimed to be many times the original input and to continue indefinitely. Details of the circuit and a theory as to its mode of operation were given (summarized in Appendix I). (Note by H. Aspden: This Appendix is not included in these Web pages. I cannot accept Coler's theory, which suggests that electrical charges are also tiny magnetic poles, of north or south polarity, which can move with current through the magnet and somehow gain energy from the magnet. Quite clearly, Coler did not understand why his device worked.)

In 1925 Coler showed a small (10-watt) version to Prof. Kloss (Berlin), who asked the Government to give it a thorough investigation, but this was refused, as was also a patent, on the grounds that it was a "perpetual motion machine". This version was also seen by Profs. Schumann (Munich), Bragstad (Trondheim) and Knuden (Copenhagen). Reports by Kloss and Schumann are translated in Appendices II and III.

In 1933 Coler and von Unruh made a slightly larger model with an output of 70 watts. This was demonstrated to Dr. F. Modersohn, who obtained from Schumann and Kloss confirmation of their tests in 1926. Modersohn then consented to back the invention and formed a company (Coler G.m.b.h.) to continue the development. At the same time a Norwegian group had been giving financial support to Coler, and these two groups clashed. Modersohn's connection with Rheinmetall Borsig, and hence with the official Hermann Goering, combined to give him an advantage in this. Coler then in 1937 built for the Company a larger version with an output of six kilowatts.

In 1943 Modersohn brought the device to the attention of the Research Department of the O.K.M. The investigation was placed under the direction of Oberbaurat Seysen, who set Dr. H. Frohlich to work with Coler from April 1, 1943 to September 25, 1943. Frohlich was convinced of the reality of the phenomena and set about investigating the fundamentals of the device. He apparently concentrated on a study of the energy changes which occur on the opening and closing of inductive circuits. At the end of the period he was transferred to B.M.W. to work on aerodynamic problems and is now working in Moscow.

In 1944 a contract was arranged by O.K.M. with Continental Metall A.G. for further development, but this was never carried out owing to the state of the country. In 1945 the apparatus was destroyed by a bomb, in Kolberg, whither Coler had evacuated. Since that time Coler had been employed sometimes as a labourer. Modersohn had severed his connection with Rheinmetall Borsig, of which he had been a Director, and was working for the Russian authorities as a consultant in chemical engineering.

Nice story.

there's more of the writer's theory here:

www.energyscience.org.uk...

but like I said, above my head on the physics, unless I do a lot more homework

There’s no magic power in magnets. Like so many other things, they can transform, store and transfer energy.