A Public Banning Today...

Originally posted by nescafe8572
[
it was a joke...........DUH

An example of a threat would be" I`ll kill him if he doesn`t", being well connected isn`t a threat.It could mean I know his partner and I`ll get them to sing "99 bottles of beer on the wall" until he gives in.

Sorry I now this is of topic and childish but it warrant`s my attention as being accused of make threats is serious and not my intention.

Thats why I used the word "veiled".......Anyway my mistake then and I apologize. Sarcasm is sometimes hard to read on discussion forms.

Originally posted by etshrtslr


Thats why I used the word "veiled".......Anyway my mistake then and I apologize. Sarcasm is sometimes hard to read on discussion forms.

I read the word "veiled" to mean a hidden threat.I don`t accept the apology as it isn`t required simple stating you made a mistake is enough

I've personally fought killtown on many 9/11 issues in another forum. He has always mixed 9/11 truth with implausible theories(webfairy website) like hologram planes hitting the twin towers. About a year ago he was presenting fake edited videos of vanishing planes. Despite many bright arguments against it, killtown never bothered to listen. Whatever his intentions may be, he is not after the truth.

Hello there one and all. I dont want to cause any problems or hassle, so I hope anyone can help me out here (that goes for Skeptic Overlord or Mr Gray! as wel).

My name was called Yekway but as u can see I have now changed it to Yawkey. I have done this because for some reason I cannot log in with the name Yekway (and yes I do know my password, in fact its stored in the computer for everytime I want to log in). When I do want to log in, the only thing I get is a blank page saying something about an error or to that extent.

What I would like to know. Why has my name Yekway not been able to log in? I dont remeber being abusive to anyone on ats and if it was the case Im sure Id have a right to stand up for myslef.

When I las logged in as Yekway it was some time back, possibly around 2004/5, yes a good while back now. Im quite sad I cant use my real alias, becuase I have enjoyed my time on ats and the other related threads and networking with other people.

I know its been a long time and I could/will email (hopefully get a response out of) the moderators to let me know what happend to me. The reason for posting here to get a answer is simply that I should get a better response, rather than just emailing one or two people.

Im sure there is a good reason for my name not been able to log in. But if anyone can help me out here then that will be much appreiciated.

As for the person who got banned, it sounds like he/she had it coming to them. There is one thing putting your opion accross to someone, its different matter althoghter shoving it down thier somebodys throat. I dont know the person who got banned I havnt read any of this persons threads but my situation is qutie different and a answer to it I think is more than reasonable.

Originally posted by nescafe8572

Nothing to do with Mafia or illegal.Large companies see growth and buy whilst the small company is still cheap enough to make a quick return.You obviously never heard of Private Equity Companies.They buy cheap strip out and sell for a profit.They don`t care about the product or its people, simple profit gain and low loss risk.

[edit on 21-6-2007 by nescafe8572]

Yep, I know about them. I also know about corperate "wet work" in which the the short term value is lowered by various means to facilitate a better purchase. But given your vast resources and the fact that I am using my standard net-name you should be able to find out exactly who I am as well. But in the interest of protecting my identity and your embarassment should your information be wrong, you can send me a U2U if so inclined.

That is of course if you are a multi-millionare and not just someone that is oh i don't know...out of school and unemployed as the reason that you have such free time during the working day. Or perhaps you do have a nice little office job with net access and borrowing a little bandwidth like a good portion of the posters here and all over the web.

But if you do not like U2U's you are more than welcome to translate the acronym of either AHAB or STAR and that will be good enough for me to prove you are indeed what you claim to be. Not that any of this is direct attack but this a topic of why a member was banned for not following terms and conditions of this site and of course the number one rule of the T&C is

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

and I would hate for you to inadvertently become involved in a rock/glass house sort of thing and become banned yourself.

Originally posted by Ahabstar

But given your vast resources and the fact that I am using my standard net-name you should be able to find out exactly who I am as well.

I don`t own the NSA, but post me your address and I send my private jet to pic you up

But in the interest of protecting my identity and your embarassment should your information be wrong, you can send me a U2U if so inclined.

Even if I did you could always deny I was right .

That is of course if you are a multi-millionare and not just someone that is oh i don't know...out of school and unemployed as the reason that you have such free time during the working day.

I was only born last week

Or perhaps you do have a nice little office job with net access and borrowing a little bandwidth like a good portion of the posters here and all over the web.

Yeah my PA in there doin everything for me, she`s even writing this.

But if you do not like U2U's you are more than welcome to translate the acronym of either AHAB or STAR and that will be good enough for me to prove you are indeed what you claim to be

I`m crap at puzzles,word games and frankly the time it would take me would be better spent increasing my bank balance than feeding your ego.

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

I haven`t broke T&C`s so thanks for pointing it out.But i`m sure Matrix will sort out any of my legal problems.

and I would hate for you to inadvertently become involved in a rock/glass house sort of thing and become banned yourself.

why would you miss me

P.S Only responded cos this guy/girl is taking the thread away from the topic.

I see that no one has backed up their accusations against KT. So the question I have: are ATS members presumed innocent, or do they have to prove their innocence? And if ATS members have to prove their innocence, how do we do that if we are banned?

Originally posted by realSF
I see that no one has backed up their accusations against KT. So the question I have: are ATS members presumed innocent, or do they have to prove their innocence? And if ATS members have to prove their innocence, how do we do that if we are banned?

There are a couple things to keep in mind here...

First, the information regarding the reasons for the banning have been exhaustively explained and the "evidence" is self-evident and has been discussed by members in this thread.

But most important is the apparent notion of a need to prove innocence as if there were some judicial process in play here. There is not, there is simply our Terms & Conditions and any member who posts on ATS signifies they agree to them.

There are several items within the terms that have been pointed out by members within this and other threads. In fact, this being perhaps our most publicly discussed banning, we're hard-pressed to find an ATS member who disagrees with our action.

However, the most important item in the T&C for us and our members is this part here:

8) Right of Community Management This is a privately owned discussion board community. The Owners and senior moderator staff reserve the right to take action against any member who is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, whose actions represent behavior contrary to community building, or whose content is contrary to the core ideals of AboveTopSecret.com.

Our rationale for removing posting privileges from Killtown are easily explained in that simple paragraph, which essentially summarizes all that precedes it.


I'm sure we all wish Killtown well in his search for the truth. As time moves on, banned members have returned, and in some case, have even become moderators. One's actions and maturity are always the determining factor in what happens next.

Thank God there are people like Skeptic Overlord who recognize that to live in a civil society, certain measures have to be taken to encourage CIVILITY. We can't tolerate crazy statements by people who might just be trying to upset others, especially when there has been a history of GUILTY people trying to cause trouble. Unless we can be absolutely sure that a troublemaker is very, very mature, there is no reason to allow any sort of random assertion that would just cause heartache and confusion.

Hello there again. Its Yekway/Yawkey, just a lil update really. Im sorry Skecptic Overlord but you havnt really helped me out here. I want to know why I cannot log in as Yekway? Or to put it another way. Why does the screen go to error message evry time I log in? When I sign in as Yawkey everything is fine, so why? Why am I getting bother?

It looks like to me that I have been blocked rather than banned. If that is the case could I be unblocked please. Now Mr overlord I have u2ud before when I was yekway, (somehow I managed to get through using yekway!) But that that was a while back and Im still in the same situation. If you cannot help me, then please can you redirect me to someone who can.

Another odd thing about me logging in as yekway. When I do log in as yekway, I get blocked as yekway. But the odd part is, I get blocked as yawkey as well. Why is this happing? So can you Mr overlord help me out, or can ANYONE help myslef out here, as to what the hell is going on with me logging in as yekway.

I would just like to get this sorted out as soon as possible and to be up and running properly. Thanks!

I was recently talking to Killtown about 911 and the movement in general. He had mentioned that the biggest problem within the movement is the censorship and how he has been banned at several conspiracy forums. I asked him why thought he had been banned from all of these forums. He believes it is due to his controversial theories rather than his behavior. He seemed to be going on and on about him being specifically targeted to make an example of. When I asked him if he really thought he was being targeted or was he just being narcissistic, he recommended that I come here and see for myself. He said that not only was he banned here, he was "publicly banned" which he believed had never occurred at ATS before which is why he believes he is being specifically targeted. He also says that ATS made accusations, however failed to prove any of them.

So I decided to come over and check it out to see whether he was correct or if he was just being overly dramatic. I read the opening post and Killtown was totally right. All that you are doing is making accusations with no proof. Basically I am suppose to accept the word of this "SkepticOverlord," who I know nothing about (apparently like some members here did?). At first when reading this I wanted to go back to Killtown and ask if any of this is true. Then I realized, why should he have to prove his innocence? Shouldn't the people who banned him have to prove his guilt first? At no point throughout this thread did I see anyone prove that he did anything worthy of being banned for, and worse publicly humiliated.

I know this is a private forum and you can do whatever you want, however if the "the truth is in here" than shouldn't you prove the these allegations against Killtown are true? Kind of like how the U.S. justice system was designed to work; innocent until proven guilty?

It looks like only a handful of people tried to get ATS to prove their allegations against Killtown and so far ATS hasn't proved anything against him. I think in order for this forum to be credible, you should prove your allegations, or apologize to him and un-ban him until you do.

PandorasBox

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but killtown was in a number of threads and was warned, in fact everyone was being warned at that time.

*IT* isn't his theories btw. WizardintheWoods holds to tv fakery, and he posts here because he follows the rules here. There are other people who hold to this and are not banned. That fact refutes killtown completely.

Originally posted by talisman
PandorasBox

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but killtown was in a number of threads and was warned, in fact everyone was being warned at that time.

*IT* isn't his theories btw. WizardintheWoods holds to tv fakery, and he posts here because he follows the rules here. There are other people who hold to this and are not banned. That fact refutes killtown completely.

Then can someone please show me were Killtown broke the rules here? That's all I'm asking. That shouldn't be too hard since his alleged violations must have been so egregious to warrant a public banning which no other member has received before (as far I a can tell).

I never really got involved with killtown or any of his threads. So, I decided to look up the threads he made, and all of them are deleted. Was his theories so ridiculous that they ALL had to be deleted?!? I'm kindof curious as to what he wrote.


[edit on 18-8-2007 by hikix]

You mean these threads?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looks like they are there to me.

reply to post by PandorasBox



This may be blunt... but.. who are you to come here and demand that we show you, how killtown broke the rules?


Seems to me that you just want to stir the pot.

I say just leave well enough alone and move on, there is so much more to be doing with our time.


[edit on 18-8-2007 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by PandorasBox
I read the opening post and Killtown was totally right. All that you are doing is making accusations with no proof.

Prior to this unfortunate thread, he had been warned several times, and even post-banned for several days. Our decision to announce his banning was because of his high profile here on ATS and elsewhere. Typically, when banned, a member suddenly stops posting and has the "banned" title under their name with no explanation. We wanted to be certain our members understood our decision was based on his actions, and not his theories (which are still welcome here, and none of his posts have been modified or removed).

To confirm our so-called "accusations," all one needs to do is visit his blog and other sites he frequents. Several of our members did that and were more than satisfied with our rationale.

It looks like only a handful of people tried to get ATS to prove their allegations against Killtown and so far ATS hasn't proved anything against him.

As mentioned above, we never felt any need to "prove" anything, since the material that contributed to our decision was always freely available and in the open.

Then can someone please show me were Killtown broke the rules here?

Some two months later, it's a bit moot. However, his banning came soon after we made it clear that the 9/11 Forum is under close scrutiny with increased expectations of decorum and civility. Among other things, he ignored our repeated requests for civil participation.


I'm aware that he's been having trouble on other boards and blogs for his "no planes" and/or "TV fakery" theories and opinions. It's unfortunate that other discussion venues lack the confidence to embrace all aspects of conspiracy speculation. I can assure you that we are the only board with a strong focus on 9/11 conspiracy research and speculation that does not limit or moderate the subject matter in any way.

However, we do take member civility seriously, and unfortunately we've been experiencing an inordinate number of discourteous (putting it lightly) people from various segments of the "9/11 Truth Movement" and from those who seek to attack 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I've said this before, and continue to feel this way... I hope that some day we hear back from Killtown that he's ready to try again with participation on ATS. Several banned members have had second changes and one such person is now even a moderator. If he's able to rewind his posting style to the manners he once showed here, I'm sure our members will benefit from his participation.

Originally posted by elevatedone
reply to post by PandorasBox

 

This may be blunt... but.. who are you to come here and demand that we show you, how killtown broke the rules?

Seems to me that you just want to stir the pot.

I say just leave well enough alone and move on, there is so much more to be doing with our time.

Who am I to come here and demand that you show me? I am a concerned member of your forum who wants to know. Nothing more, nothing less. I have no desire to stir up anything. I asked for you to show why he was banned aside from his theories.

What better are you doing with your time if your wasting it replying to this? No one forced you to reply to my post.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlordOur decision to announce his banning was because of his high profile here on ATS and elsewhere.

How many other members have received a "public banning" at ATS besides him?

We wanted to be certain our members understood our decision was based on his actions, and not his theories (which are still welcome here, and none of his posts have been modified or removed).

Ok then show me any of his actions that got him banned as I requested from the beginning. If he made so many violations here as you seem to imply he did, then you should have no problem showing me at least on example.

To confirm our so-called "accusations," all one needs to do is visit his blog and other sites he frequents. Several of our members did that and were more than satisfied with our rationale.

And who are these members, people who are unbiased or who have an agenda?

As mentioned above, we never felt any need to "prove" anything, since the material that contributed to our decision was always freely available and in the open.

Where is it then? Where can I take a look at it so I can make up my own mind who was in the right and who was in the wrong?

Some two months later, it's a bit moot.

A bit moot, or do you mean you would rather sweep in under the rug?

However, his banning came soon after we made it clear that the 9/11 Forum is under close scrutiny with increased expectations of decorum and civility. Among other things, he ignored our repeated requests for civil participation.

So I have to take your word once more about his actions?

I'm aware that he's been having trouble on other boards and blogs for his "no planes" and/or "TV fakery" theories and opinions. It's unfortunate that other discussion venues lack the confidence to embrace all aspects of conspiracy speculation. I can assure you that we are the only board with a strong focus on 9/11 conspiracy research and speculation that does not limit or moderate the subject matter in any way.

Didn't all this get started because he presented a thread as an answer to how the 9/11 government culprits planted evidence at one of the crash sites, however everybody here, including ATS moderators, attacked and ridiculed him for not presenting it as a question and the moderators CHANGED his original thread?

However, we do take member civility seriously, and unfortunately we've been experiencing an inordinate number of discourteous (putting it lightly) people from various segments of the "9/11 Truth Movement" and from those who seek to attack 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Killtown told me he was attacked left and right here at ATS and complained to the admin here like he was supposed to and the admin didn't do much, or anything to his attackers. Is that true?

I've said this before, and continue to feel this way... I hope that some day we hear back from Killtown that he's ready to try again with participation on ATS. Several banned members have had second changes and one such person is now even a moderator. If he's able to rewind his posting style to the manners he once showed here, I'm sure our members will benefit from his participation.

And when can we expect that to happen? How do you know if he will be able to "rewind his posting style" if he, or any other banned member for that matter, if they are not able to post on here to show ATS that? I sincerely hope to see him back. Killtown has historically provided great insight to the movement and will continue to do so. Banning him from here is not the answer.

Originally posted by PandorasBox
How many other members have received a "public banning" at ATS besides him?

A few. It's always been in relation to "high profile" members for which we want to inform the membership as to the reasons behind our actions. However, it's been a while since there was such a "public action." I believe the last one was a former site Super Moderator.

Ok then show me any of his actions that got him banned as I requested from the beginning.
>snip<
Where can I take a look at it so I can make up my own mind

That's already been outlined more than once.

you would rather sweep in under the rug?

If that were the case, there'd be no discussion and his posts would be removed.

However, his banning came soon after we made it clear that the 9/11 Forum is under close scrutiny with increased expectations of decorum and civility. Among other things, he ignored our repeated requests for civil participation.

So I have to take your word once more about his actions?

Didn't all this get started because he presented a thread as an answer to how the 9/11 government culprits planted evidence at one of the crash sites, however everybody here, including ATS moderators, attacked and ridiculed him for not presenting it as a question and the moderators CHANGED his original thread?

You're referring to this thread: Shanksville engine planted by a backhoe bucket? (theory)
The only "change" applied was the addition of "(theory)" to the subject line of the thread. If you're going to make accusations, at least be accurate.

I see no "attacks" from staff, and no personal attacks on Killtown from ATS staff in the thread... I only see a mixture of (sometimes intense) disagreement with this theory from members. I also see at least one reasonable accusation of photo tampering from Killtown to make his case.

And I hadn't noticed this before, but it looks like Killtown had voluntarily left ATS within that thread?

Killtown told me he was attacked left and right here at ATS and complained to the admin here like he was supposed to and the admin didn't do much, or anything to his attackers. Is that true?

We did indeed warn a few members who got too personal with their responses. However, all too often, he assumed criticism of his theories were attacks. While ATS is a "conspiracy supportive" website, most of our members approach conspiracy speculation with a hearty dose of critical thinking. As such, speculative theories are often subject to intense analysis from several contradictory viewpoints as an earnest effort to discern which theories hold up to scrutiny.

Killtown has historically provided great insight to the movement and will continue to do so. Banning him from here is not the answer.

No one is ever banned for their opinions, they're banned for their actions... as was the case here.